Trump - Not sold on him, but have to vote with the party to protect things I like. Second amendment being one of them. I also have small children and don't want possible supreme court appointments to affect them the rest of their lives. There is a lot on the line this go around not to take part just because you are not a total fan of the candidate.
If you HAD to Vote for One...
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Thai
Elite Member
Try and understand why i wrote what i wrote. I NEVER mentioned Obama's skin color regarding racial tension...yet, ndcent went that racial route. Think about that for a moment. Do you understand now?
1engineer
Moderator
Lol [MENTION=54665]THOR[/MENTION] I think you are going to learn something today!
Now, you made a statement "the poor never does better under anyone!" That's false and I'll tell you why but first we need to look at it differently, actually properly, than you see from traditional media outlets looking for sensational headlines.
1. Global Comparison
The US continues to do extremely well compared to the poor and low income people globally. How Americans compare with the global middle class | Pew Research Center Like really well.
2. Standard of Living in the US
There are several ways to measure the standard of living. One of the most dependable and clear ways is to use life expectancy and height! Here is an article Inferring the economic standard of living and health from cohort height: Evidence from modern populations in developing countries and you will see that, based on height and life expectancy, the poor are much better off than they used to be.
3. Poverty
Poverty is a better way than "poor" of looking at the living standards so here is another link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States and as a percentage of people living in poverty, we have dropped from 23% in 1958 down to 15% in 2012. That is a big deal.
4. When Welfare Programs are Taken Into Account
Here is an article by by the Heritage Foundation Poverty and the Social Welfare State in the U.S. and Other Nations and before you dismiss the article as "conservative" (I am not a normal reader of them but this article has good info) please note this paper is foot noted properly and many liberal articles are referenced. You will see that once our social programs are taken into account the poor are doing much better today than they did once upon a time.
So yes, if you pay attention to the 25 hour news and the Newspapers looking for headlines that are emotional, comparing only wages of the poor makes it seem like they are not doing any better at all.
But if you take a moment and truly look at how not only the poor but the middle class as well are doing, using proper metrics, you can clearly see they are doing much better than they used to do.
To conclude, poor and all middle class are doing much better than in the past and this happened on the watch of presidents from both parties. Sad but true lol.
BrianSD_42
New member
Personally, I think racial tension and acceptance of other ethnicities and cultures has never been better.
Social media accounts for things like BLM and other controversial things getting into the news cycle.
Over all, across the country I believe we are doing better than we ever have before on issues of race and relations. Interracial relationships are higher than ever before. In places like CA Caucasians make up less than 50% and at least 1 in 4 are dating someone non-white.
Even the tragedy in Charleston was completely denounced by the population of that city, the state and the country. People came together like never before because of it.
I think "race relations" are at an all time high. But I'm aware of the history. Are you?
Thai
Elite Member
You make it sound like BLM is a local phenomenon. It is NOT, with or without social media.
Here is a question for you...with Obama in office, did racial tension go down compared to 5-10 years prior?
ndcent
New member
Some folks get a pass depending how closely their views align with the moderation. Doesn't bother me though, to feel insulted I'd have to first value his opinion - which I do when it comes to minivans and iPhones, not politics however.
1engineer
Moderator
I cautioned them both. We have a whole thread on racism right now. Don't play the favoritism card man. Sure, I have my own set of beliefs but I'm pretty sure I treat people here as equal as possible no matter their political beliefs. What did you think of my post on the poor above?
1engineer
Moderator
Explain.
ndcent
New member
You do a great job, no victim here but just as "everyone is racist" everyone is also biased. I don't fault you and appreciate the thankless work you do. I'll take another look at the poor post.
Thai
Elite Member
LOL...what people forget is that we all have differing opinions on various stuff. ndcent and i differ greatly in politics...but so what?! We argue constantly, but do i want him banned? No. He once (erroneously on his part probably because he was drunk) even supported me when i got temporarily banned.
People need to get thicker skin...esp if you go into the Off-Topic section of any forum...and esp if you get into a politics thread!!
What people also forget is that 1engineer and I have argued badly before too. See KDSS thread in 5th gen forum. So what?! He sometimes agree with me in politics.
We are all here on this forum willing to help each other out if needed. But we do NOT have to agree on everything.
All in all, I just wanted to say that...i am always right. :dance: Thank you.
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BrianSD_42
New member
I think what we are seeing now is higher levels of extremism at the edges. Right wing extremism, militia groups, etc went up after Obama was elected. That is no secret.
Also we are seeing a rise in left wing activism at the edges of the progressive left, some of it on the more radical side. Many of the so called BLM participants are radical, closing freeways, burning buildings down. What a bunch of aholes.
But both of those groups do not represent America as a whole which is steadfastly moving towards a more racially integrated future. In urban cities across the US, and much of the rural lands as well (I suspect), people work with, date or live next to people of different ethnicities.
Yes. I think it is far better now than 10 years ago.
Extremism and hate crimes seem up? Look at Charleston. Sounds pretty bad.
What about in 90s? Look at Oklahoma City bombing. Do you remember the picture of the firefighters carrying out the kids from the building? I do. That attack was carried out by a right wing extremist who was upset about (amount other things) what he perceived as federal government overreach.
When I compare the history of the US and it's racial progress through the years I see us moving in a progressive direction.
And as for president Obama, I believe his Presidency has been a huge boost to race relations across the spectrum. Even if you despise his policies I believe most reasonable Americans see him as a respectable person. Unlike BLM clowns who are made of both white and non-white citizens acting in a pretty despicable manner.
I don't see race relations at an all time low. Quite the opposite, in fact.
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Thai
Elite Member
Thanks for proving my point with your first two paragraphs.
The rest? I disagree. 100% disagree in fact. So, 10 years ago, blacks and whites hate each other and could not work together? And now BECAUSE of Obama, we all love each other much more?
Oklahoma City bombing???? I thought that was because those idiots hated the government and was related to the Waco incident???
Stay focus Brian...i am talking about the Obama presidency effects on racial tension.
BrianSD_42
New member
Three words for you: IN THE AGGREGATE
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wadle5
New member
You think the judge who sentenced the rapist from Stanford to just 6 months in jail is bad? How about an attorney who got her client 1 year in jail and 4 years probation, instead of 40 years in prison for raping a 12 year old? Pretty awful, huh? Well, that attorney is now the Democratic nominee for the President of the United States of America. And her name is Hillary Clinton. Where's the outrage?
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ben550
New member
Scramble
New member
Krugman is a left wing jackass. :flamethrwoer2:
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BrianSD_42
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I don't really get this line of argument. All defense lawyers are supposed to work to their fullest extent to get their clients 0 jail time. To do less would be unethical as a lawyer and could even result in problems with the bar.
wadle5
New member
The problem is you are trying to now argue in the of matter ethics in the profession of Lawyers.
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I think I am following your line of thought but I don't make a connection to this topic.
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