I'm out of camber adjustment and still have visible + camber...

[Jon]

I've noticed heavy wear on the outside of my expensive 35's over the past year and just never had time to address it and the alignment shop doesn't do "camber" only steering alignment.

So the other night I was bored and looked up how to pull some negative camber. Looked really easy so I gave it a shot.

I eyeballed the current camber at around (if not more than) +2 deg (top of tire kicked out). Then marked all 4 cammed washers where they sat and loosened them up. They were all sitting relatively straight up. I did a full 90deg turn on them all locking them all in the same exact spot (which I would guess is a nice zero for caster angle).

With the lower entire hub being pushed away from the center line, it of course gave a ton of tow as the steering length had remained the same. Popped the outer tie rod nuts loose and extended both sides evenly (eyeballed again, I'll let the pros dial it in with my lifetime alignment).

So even with the lower arms kicked all the way out, I'm looking pretty level on the driver's side but the passenger side is still kicked out a bit, still a noticeable degree or so.

I'm running 3.5" lift up front with the adjustables from Toytec with Camburg UCAs.

Could the bushings in the a-arm be that bad? 3rd member support bushings look like $hit.

Bent spindle?

Truck sits perfectly level.

Side note, the driver's side has about 32 threads showing and the passenger side is at about 25 threads. How I got them from Toytec a few years back, guess that's how they compensate for the known driver's side lean? Those bushings are brand new.

Thanks for the help and as always... don't hold back guys, if I'm doing it wrong let me know. Besides the fact that this will one day all be cut off the frame and replaced with a solid axle, but that's a ways off.

 

[sportscarfan]

Could be that the bushings on the upper arm are so bad they, particularly on the pass side are causing all the positive camber and you are adjusting the lower to try to match. I'd pull one side apart and inspect/replace all the bushings first. Chances are most/all are beyond their service life by now.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Maybe this will help. Also, you don't want zero caster as you will get a wandering steering wheel and the steering wont return to center after a turn.

 

[nevada]

after making the adjustments, did you allow the suspension to settle?
since you don't have alignment plates, you will need to drive it.
maybe just back it straight out, then pull it back in. then recheck.

also, make sure the tire is pointing straight forward when eyeing the camber. if they are turned slightly, the caster will throw things off. do this for each tire, since as you noted, the toe will be off. they both wont be STRAIGHT at the same time.


then to the caster...as said above you don't want it at zero. getting it set correctly at home without the proper equipment will be tough, if not impossible.

 

[ARC]

I've noticed heavy wear on the outside of my expensive 35's over the past year and just never had time to address it and the alignment shop doesn't do "camber" only steering alignment.

What kind of a so called alignment shop refuses to adjust camber? :suspicious:

 

[BrandonF]

With IFS, it seems like its normal for the tires to wear more on the outside than the inside. My alignment is perfect except for low caster due to my lift (triple checked by two different reputable shops) and they still do it. I just rotate them frequently and when the tires were at about 60%, I had them flipped around on the rims and remounted/rebalanced. I have cheap tires so it's hard to say if it was even worth the $80, but whatever.

I wish it wasn't this way, and I may get aftermarket UCA's when I replace my current tires and see if I get better tire wear with 4ish degrees of caster instead of my current 1.25 degrees. Caster shouldn't affect the tire wear but who knows. Running low caster does change the geometry of the front suspension and the tires could be "cambering in" more than usual when turning.

Do you know how much caster you have? Since you have aftermarket uca's, you should have no problem getting proper caster with 3.5" of lift.

 

[ARC]

With IFS, it seems like its normal for the tires to wear more on the outside than the inside.

This is not true in my experience. Every vehicle I have ever owned except one had IFS and all of them wore tires very evenly as long as they were aligned, tires rotated regularly, and properly inflated.

 

[BrandonF]

This is not true in my experience. Every vehicle I have ever owned except one had IFS and all of them wore tires very evenly as long as they were aligned, tires rotated regularly, and properly inflated.

Yeah I do agree with you. IFS or not, the tires really shouldn't wear unevenly. I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'll mention that my camber and toe are perfect, I run 40 psi (experimented with pressures as low as 32 and the wear did not improve) my front end is tight, and I rotate my tires religiously. Like I said, I had my alignment checked three times (twice by one shop and then a third time by a different shop) and every time, it came back perfect. No one can seem to answer why my tire wear is so bad. The only other thing I can think of is that my low caster is changing the suspension geometry enough that in turns, the alignment isn't as it should be.

 

[Jon]

I'm well aware that it has to settle, but good qustion, wish it was that simple. All of this is after 10mi of driving.

Could be that the bushings on the upper arm are so bad they, particularly on the pass side are causing all the positive camber and you are adjusting the lower to try to match. I'd pull one side apart and inspect/replace all the bushings first. Chances are most/all are beyond their service life by now.

Very doubtfull. The Camburg UCAs have only been in there for about 2yrs and I don't jusp it or anything that would sufficiently decrease the life of those bushings. But I'll be checking the health of the lower ones when I get the chance. Those and the 3rd member bushings are the only ones up front that have yet to be changed within the past couple yrs.

What kind of a so called alignment shop refuses to adjust camber? :suspicious:

The lifetime alignment was purchased through Firestone on Hurlburt Field, FL. They had no issues keeping this thing in line but when I had it done at my nearest one in Roseville CA last year, they said that they do not mess with Camber. "Sooooo, what took 3hrs?"

Anyone got a reputable shop near Yuba City CA?

Got any idea why I'm running the extra threads on the driver's side to get it to sit level?

 

[D Farms]

That's bs, I got the lifetime alignment as well, and they for sure adjusted the camber.

 

[ARC]

The lifetime alignment was purchased through Firestone on Hurlburt Field, FL. They had no issues keeping this thing in line but when I had it done at my nearest one in Roseville CA last year, they said that they do not mess with Camber. "Sooooo, what took 3hrs?"

Lifetime alignments are such a pain. Had one on my Tacoma, and still had to take it elsewhere. I have a good local shop I take all my vehicles to now. Talk to off-road shops in your area and other car guys. I am sure there is at least one guy around you that knows how to do an alignment properly.

 

[IBallEngineer]

The lifetime alignment was purchased through Firestone on Hurlburt Field, FL. They had no issues keeping this thing in line but when I had it done at my nearest one in Roseville CA last year, they said that they do not mess with Camber. "Sooooo, what took 3hrs?"

Anyone got a reputable shop near Yuba City CA?

Got any idea why I'm running the extra threads on the driver's side to get it to sit level?

If you give me a zip code, I can find you a good shop in your area. I sell John Bean aligners for a living, and I can get whoever is the sales rep in that area to give me a good recommendation. The national tire stores often can't keep qualified techs because they just don't pay enough.

Ping me if you want me to investigate, you could also go to the JohnBean.com website and enter your zip code to find a rep and call him directly.

 

[J-money$$$]

the rear cams adjust the camber quite a bit more than the front. It it was me. I would put all the cams in the center. I use a jack to take the weight off the front end so there is less to settle after.

So put all of the cams in the center and look at the tires. I you have positive camber still. jack up the front end again and play with the rear cams. When you move them from the center you will see one way lengthens the cam, one way shortens it. So go the way that pushes the arm away from the truck (longer). Max it out and see. I bet you can fix it all with the rear cams as long as the front cams are centered.

Once you start playing with the alignment. you can get it so messed up that nothing seems to fix it. I have experienced the same thing you describe, and the only way i was able to fix it was to go to center and redo it all on the rear cams. Just do all the adjustments with no weight on the front end. Its super easy to watch what is going on that way.

 

[xcmountain80]

Light Racing Upper control arms fixed this on a 2006 Taco running 37's

 

[Jon]

the rear cams adjust the camber quite a bit more than the front. It it was me. I would put all the cams in the center. I use a jack to take the weight off the front end so there is less to settle after.

So put all of the cams in the center and look at the tires. I you have positive camber still. jack up the front end again and play with the rear cams. When you move them from the center you will see one way lengthens the cam, one way shortens it. So go the way that pushes the arm away from the truck (longer). Max it out and see. I bet you can fix it all with the rear cams as long as the front cams are centered.

Once you start playing with the alignment. you can get it so messed up that nothing seems to fix it. I have experienced the same thing you describe, and the only way i was able to fix it was to go to center and redo it all on the rear cams. Just do all the adjustments with no weight on the front end. Its super easy to watch what is going on that way.

I had it jacked up with the tires just off the ground. All the cams were pretty much centered to start with. I figured it would knock out the most distance by setting all four at max.

I think I'm gonna take it to the LesShwab 5min down the road and see what they say rather than the "we don't do camber here" Firestone that is 45min away.

Iballengeneer- it's 95901, thanks for the assist.

If this doesn't work, I guess the only other option is the Total Chaos long travel kit. Right?

 

[Jon]

UPDATE: Just got back from Les Schwab and their tech said detoured me from getting the alignment somehow. I've been awake for over 48hrs again, big deal, but he said it was moslty due to the steering rack moving all over the place. Funny seeing as I replaced all the steering bushings last year with the harder ones from Toytec. He said there's no stopping it from happening but that it would just keep "pushing itself out of alignment" every time I turned the wheel. This is due to the large tire size.

Waste of time when I could have been sleeping!

At least he congratulated be on my amazing job of eyeballing the steering alignment.

F-it, I'm going LT! Perhaps I should sleep first....:shrug:

Unrelated: I did get these little gems in today for $15 a pop. They look pretty bright in daylight, I'll get some pics and more details in a more appropriate thread. Thinking of using them as rock lights and spot lights from the roof. They've definitely got the rock light part covered. 27W LED Work Flood Square Light 12V 24V Off Road Truck 4x4 Boat SUV Lamp | eBay

 

[D Farms]

do your ucas allow you to adjust the camber at all?