impact durability of plate bumper?

[chrisbalich]

Howdy.
I had a little traffic incident yesterday in my mostly stock 99 T4R Limted and it pushed the bumper around more than I expected. Once I cooled off a little, I wondered how a plate bumper would handle a similar incident.

The short version is some jerk brake-checked me all the way to a full-stop and I couldn't stop in time. Bumper to bumper contact yielded my bumper getting pushed up and in on the passenger side and his getting scuffed from mine.

I don't yet know if the frame horn is bent, but I'm assuming zero to nominal deflection of the frame horn considering how little my bumper moved.

I'm curious if the consensus/experience is that the stronger bumper just damages the frame more, or if it takes the force and shares it with the other vehicle more. (I'm much less concerned about the other person's car than mine.)

Great forum here. I look forward to everyone's thoughts.

Here's my truck.

and before yesterday

 

[dogtail]

I prefer a plate bumper. Not much difference in frame damage over a certain mph. In a high speed crash I like the idea of deflection. Hit a deer with a plate bumper and your front end will see minimal if any front end damage. Minor skirmishes plate bumper wins. There's only so much the factory bumper crumple zone factor can help. Its nice if the other vehicle takes all the crush.
Plus the plate bumpers look bad ass. But if you're worried about plate bumper that has crush absorbing factors, the ARB has that, not sure if any others do.

 

[chrisbalich]

I prefer a plate bumper. Not much difference in frame damage over a certain mph. In a high speed crash I like the idea of deflection. Hit a deer with a plate bumper and your front end will see minimal if any front end damage. Minor skirmishes plate bumper wins. There's only so much the factory bumper crumple zone factor can help. Its nice if the other vehicle takes all the crush.
Plus the plate bumpers look bad ass. But if you're worried about plate bumper that has crush absorbing factors, the ARB has that, not sure if any others do.

I have very little interest in absorbing the impact. I want to let the other car take it.
Thanks for your reply! I hadn't considered animal strike. We have a lot of deer here and they're scattered all over the roads. Not sure why that didn't occur to me.

 

[pauldub]

Probably best to improve your driving habits and not be a tailgater. Sorry

 

[chrisbalich]

Probably best to improve your driving habits and not be a tailgater. Sorry

Thanks for the tip.
I don't make it a habit of leaving 200' behind the car in front of me when stopped at a stoplight. Similarly, I don't let the car in front of me clear the intersection before I leave. Stoplights must be very different in the PNW.

 

[Riceye]

Stoplights must be very different in the PNW.

No, it's the drivers. As a midwesterner who has driven in the PNW frequently, I find the demeanor of the drivers refreshing. They allow merging, stay in the right lane and even let you in when they have the right-of-way. And then give a friendly wave. Very unlike the drivers indigenous to that state just to the west of Indiana.

Oh, and Washington has a distracted driving law that prohibits cell phone use when behind the wheel. Progressive legislation.

 

[chrisbalich]

No, it's the drivers. As a midwesterner who has driven in the PNW frequently, I find the demeanor of the drivers refreshing. They allow merging, stay in the right lane and even let you in when they have the right-of-way. And then give a friendly wave. Very unlike the drivers indigenous to that state just to the west of Indiana.

Oh, and Washington has a distracted driving law that prohibits cell phone use when behind the wheel. Progressive legislation.

Both Illinois and Indiana have anti-phone-whilst-driving laws on the books. In IL, you can only use hands free. In IN, you can hold the phone for a call, but you're not allowed to use it for any other non-hands free use. I can't speak to the enforcement as I've never known anyone to be cited in either state for phone-related offenses.

Of the 43 states I've driven through, I've yet to find anywhere as friendly as what you describe. To be fair, OR and WA are on the remaining list of 7 states I haven't visited. But it's not exactly fair to say that only the Midwestern drivers behave a certain way. I've found the Midwest to be the norm rather than the exception.

But transit laws are not the focus of my question.
I'm interested in the durability of a plate bumper compared to a stock bumper. Dragging across a rock/boulder is different than an impact. Impacts are my concern.

 

[T4topher]

I had an all pro tube bumper on my Tacoma and I rear ended a sedan maybe 6-7years ago. Car was totaled, my truck literally had 0 damage.

 

[jross20]

You'll want the ARB deluxe as it has crash cans.

Also, as a rule of thumb, if you have to hit something and have no choice, aim for the Civic. Small weak cars become your crumple zone.

 

[CdaleR4000si]

This was after a deer strike at 70 mph with a Shrockworks bumper. The deer was roughly 200-210 pounds. I hit him pretty much centered. Luckily, the deer went low and to the side and I ended up going over him partially, otherwise I am sure that it would have caused enough body damage to total it. No frame damage, except for the end caps that I had welded on the ends of the frame rails. Had I not done a shitty weld job, they probably would have been fine.

 

[UnderFire]

I'm honestly not a fan of how a lot of the bumpers on the market mount. Some of them rely too heavily on the dinky little wings off the front body mounts that the stock bumper bolts to. Usually paired with either the front frame horns or the tow hook holes underneath.

Because the majority or even all of the support comes from 1-2 places on the front of the truck they lack stability and tend to deflect up and down with impact or winching. Even if it's slight that doesn't make me too confident.

Out of all of the companies making bumpers I would 100% choose addicted offroad's plate bumper. Their two piece design makes the most sense for someone looking for ease of install. The added crossmember increases rigidity at the front of the frame since we only get the little dinky 2x3 frame horns from the suspension forward, and it gives you more place of contact with the frame. Ideally the crossmember would be fully welded to the frame.

While building my new bumper I chose to take it a step further, I chopped the front body mounts off the frame and added plates back to the shock towers with two 5/8 bolts through the frame and reattached the body mounts to the plates. Anyone with minor fab skills and equipment could feasibly do that to most bumpers on the market.

The addicted bumper also strikes other chords with me, it has super high clearance, good approach angle and it looks pretty badass too. I should honestly just pony up and buy it, but I'm too cheap so I'll just do my best to emulate it.

Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk

 

[brillo_76]

I'm honestly not a fan of how a lot of the bumpers on the market mount. Some of them rely too heavily on the dinky little wings off the front body mounts that the stock bumper bolts to. Usually paired with either the front frame horns or the tow hook holes underneath.

Because the majority or even all of the support comes from 1-2 places on the front of the truck they lack stability and tend to deflect up and down with impact or winching. Even if it's slight that doesn't make me too confident.

Out of all of the companies making bumpers I would 100% choose addicted offroad's plate bumper. Their two piece design makes the most sense for someone looking for ease of install. The added crossmember increases rigidity at the front of the frame since we only get the little dinky 2x3 frame horns from the suspension forward, and it gives you more place of contact with the frame. Ideally the crossmember would be fully welded to the frame.

While building my new bumper I chose to take it a step further, I chopped the front body mounts off the frame and added plates back to the shock towers with two 5/8 bolts through the frame and reattached the body mounts to the plates. Anyone with minor fab skills and equipment could feasibly do that to most bumpers on the market.

The addicted bumper also strikes other chords with me, it has super high clearance, good approach angle and it looks pretty badass too. I should honestly just pony up and buy it, but I'm too cheap so I'll just do my best to emulate it.

Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk

The plating back to the strut towers can be done inside the frame as well. You can cut the end caps off and slide 1/8 plate all the way back to the start of the arch. Then drill and fill the inner plates in. Also cut welding windows along the the top and bottom to super tie it all together. Grind it all smooth and you have decent strength all the way back to the front axles.

This way you won't have to cut the body mounts off and weld them back on.

Plus you can even weld the end caps back on to seal the front frame rails back up.

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk

 

[phattyduck]

The Shrockworks frame mounts do have an arm that runs back and bolts to the frame behind the radiator. They extend past the indentations in the frame horns meant for bending in an accident. I haven't tested it, but it does seem like it would strengthen the frame somewhat. Of course, that is contradicted by the pictures above of a bent Shrockworks bumper...

You can see the through-bolt in this picture, about 6" behind the body mount. The arm runs on the inside of the frame:

-Charlie

 

[T4topher]

I'm honestly not a fan of how a lot of the bumpers on the market mount. Some of them rely too heavily on the dinky little wings off the front body mounts that the stock bumper bolts to. Usually paired with either the front frame horns or the tow hook holes underneath.

Because the majority or even all of the support comes from 1-2 places on the front of the truck they lack stability and tend to deflect up and down with impact or winching. Even if it's slight that doesn't make me too confident.

Out of all of the companies making bumpers I would 100% choose addicted offroad's plate bumper. Their two piece design makes the most sense for someone looking for ease of install. The added crossmember increases rigidity at the front of the frame since we only get the little dinky 2x3 frame horns from the suspension forward, and it gives you more place of contact with the frame. Ideally the crossmember would be fully welded to the frame.

While building my new bumper I chose to take it a step further, I chopped the front body mounts off the frame and added plates back to the shock towers with two 5/8 bolts through the frame and reattached the body mounts to the plates. Anyone with minor fab skills and equipment could feasibly do that to most bumpers on the market.

The addicted bumper also strikes other chords with me, it has super high clearance, good approach angle and it looks pretty badass too. I should honestly just pony up and buy it, but I'm too cheap so I'll just do my best to emulate it.

Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk

Honestly I love the look of my addicted off road bumper a lot but wasn’t too impressed with the rigidity of the bumper. After you install the frame crossmember the bumper only has 6 bolts on the front holding it to that cross member. I think if he would’ve made brackets that also attach to the ‘dinky’ body mounts or made the bolts on the bumper attach on the sides also instead of only on the front it would have really stiffened it up. When I put my full body weight on the grill guard I can see the bumper flex a bit up/down. I’ve been trying to think of a way to stiffen the bumper a bit.

 

[brillo_76]

If you guys really want to stiffen those front ends up. The only way I see how to do it is how a mentioned. You could even drill the frame and bolt those plates in the frame back to that engine cross member to the front axle.

However, this will be removing all your crush points in the frame in the front section. So that needs to be considered.

How I would do it is build a upside u. That slides into the frame all the way back to the axle area. That way it could be either welded in permanently or bolted in. You could even have a bottom welded in above those front tow hook bolts and nuts and bolts max height. This would create a box within a box and if it made put of 1/8 plate. It's not going to bend very easily at all.

Basically, we are trying to mimic the back hitch but inside the frame. Basically your inner frame plates become like the reciever that accepts your ball. You be surprised how much this will stiffen the frame. Especially if bolted first then welded in to make it all solid.

At the end of the frame. I would make it a box the entire way out to your bumper. I would also put a homemade crossmember out there right behind those bumper mounts. For that crossmember, I would use square or rectangular tubing. Even if you had to cut some of your bumper mount out to get it in there. That way you have it as strong as it could possibly be. :]



Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk

 

[UnderFire]

Honestly I love the look of my addicted off road bumper a lot but wasn’t too impressed with the rigidity of the bumper. After you install the frame crossmember the bumper only has 6 bolts on the front holding it to that cross member. I think if he would’ve made brackets that also attach to the ‘dinky’ body mounts or made the bolts on the bumper attach on the sides also instead of only on the front it would have really stiffened it up. When I put my full body weight on the grill guard I can see the bumper flex a bit up/down. I’ve been trying to think of a way to stiffen the bumper a bit.

The way it bolts up is because the crossmember actually adapts the front bumper from an 86-95 pickup/runner. I've seen plenty of bumpers bolted to stock mounts on those take a lot of abuse and on the newer 4runners and Tacos they went back to a similar mounting structure. It just works better than what we have. You should see if it's just slop in the front crossmember you're feeling. If I was to buy the addicted bumper I'd just go ahead and weld the outer edges of the crossmember to the frame for maximum rigidity, or run another plate down the outside of the frame like previously mentioned if I planned on heavy winching.

Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk

 

[UnderFire]

The plating back to the strut towers can be done inside the frame as well. You can cut the end caps off and slide 1/8 plate all the way back to the start of the arch. Then drill and fill the inner plates in. Also cut welding windows along the the top and bottom to super tie it all together. Grind it all smooth and you have decent strength all the way back to the front axles.

This way you won't have to cut the body mounts off and weld them back on.

Plus you can even weld the end caps back on to seal the front frame rails back up.

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk

I honestly thought it was gonna be a pain but it was super easy. I'm not a master fabricator I know just enough to get myself into trouble. There is a ton of extra wiggle room in the mount hole itself. After sawzalling them off and grinding clean they bolted right back up and welded on easy.

I chose the outsides of the frame rails because I wanted to start with a basic front hitch and build from there since I wanted to use the winch on a cradle to save approach angle and not have my winch sitting out in the weather 365. I was able to weld it all around solid this way to the front crossmember/hitch and it'll never go anywhere. I nearly wrecked my old bumper that connected to factory points last year on a rough off camber winching, decided never again.

Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk

 

[brillo_76]

That looks alot better. Tubes have lots of strength. The hitch in the front will be extremely useful. Great job. That will work.

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[jross20]

If you guys really want to stiffen those front ends up. The only way I see how to do it is how a mentioned. You could even drill the frame and bolt those plates in the frame back to that engine cross member to the front axle.

However, this will be removing all your crush points in the frame in the front section. So that needs to be considered.

How I would do it is build a upside u. That slides into the frame all the way back to the axle area. That way it could be either welded in permanently or bolted in. You could even have a bottom welded in above those front tow hook bolts and nuts and bolts max height. This would create a box within a box and if it made put of 1/8 plate. It's not going to bend very easily at all.

Basically, we are trying to mimic the back hitch but inside the frame. Basically your inner frame plates become like the reciever that accepts your ball. You be surprised how much this will stiffen the frame. Especially if bolted first then welded in to make it all solid.

At the end of the frame. I would make it a box the entire way out to your bumper. I would also put a homemade crossmember out there right behind those bumper mounts. For that crossmember, I would use square or rectangular tubing. Even if you had to cut some of your bumper mount out to get it in there. That way you have it as strong as it could possibly be. :]



Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk

Made the frame unbreakable, and move your crumple zones into replaceable bumpers. Keep her under 60 mph. And drive smart.
:cowboy:

 

[RomanSchnobrich]

Arb

I've had my ARB on for the last three years and can speak for its strength/rigidity. Two winters ago I took a corner too fast and didn't realize just how slick it was. Ended up overcorrecting and went straight into a guard rail at 10-15 mph. Judging from how rattled I was, I assumed there would be damage for sure. But there was nothing more than some paint flakes and a few scratches. I was super impressed!