In the middle of my 4.7l timing belt change

[chumNcider]

2004, 10 years and 87k miles...

I am doing everything except for the radiator hoses (not sure when the last time I've seen one of those fail).

Spent $227 for OEM manufacturer parts. Another $40 for Zerex Aisin formula (incidentally the previous owner had the radiator fluid changed at valvoline where she got all her oil changes done, and the fluid was pink, I was worried it would be some other color).

So far my biggest complaint has been the fan clutch... bit of a pain in the ass... definitely a knuckle buster.

I've got an impact wrench that will do 400 lbs, so hopefully that will be enough to break the crank bolt free.

Might sound dumb, but I don't have a manual. I went to the local auto parts store and they didn't have any in stock so I am relying on the internet. There are a ton of write ups. The links on this forum to service manuals (which I was hoping to rely on), have been less than reliable.

One question. The Thermostat comes with a gasket, but I am wondering if I need any silicone where the thermostat housing mates to the water pump?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Ask and you shall receive!
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/130732-2uz-fe-r-r-t-belt-water-pump.html

Hope that helps!

Also, if the radiator hoses don't feel abnormally soft and/or have coolant leeching out of the threads at the cut ends; they should be pretty good. Toyota does sort of recommend 10yr/100k on the hoses as preventative maintenance, but as long as you keep an eye out for those two typical signs of failing hoses, you should be good.

Good choice on the Zerex Asian formula, now I don't have to give you a lecture about using the correct coolant (because after a lot of research and wasted time, the Zerex Asian is the only one that seems to fit the bill as a straight SLLC replacement.)

 

[chumNcider]

Black,

Thanks for the write up. I went to the auto parts store to get some ultra black for the Thermostat housing gasket, and looked for an 03+ 4runner manual. They didn't have any either, so I am starting to wonder if they exist (Haynes anyway). I got some Torque specs for the 2UZ-FE from a tundra forum. When I do my final write up, I'll list the torque specs for all the major stuff.

 

[chumNcider]

Well, my 400 ft-lb impact wrench didn't do the trick on the crank bolt. I am going to see if the local auto parts store rents out any air tools with a little more grunt. If that doesn't pan out, I'll have to do the starter trick.

Other than that, the side bolts on the PS pump and the AC compressor are kind of a pain in the ass to get to. I did have to cut a slot into the screw that holds the little bracket/ground onto the compressor to get it off with a flat head. A normal phillips didn't have a chance.

Everything else has been pretty straight forward.

 

[nevada]

Well, my 400 ft-lb impact wrench didn't do the trick on the crank bolt. I am going to see if the local auto parts store rents out any air tools with a little more grunt. If that doesn't pan out, I'll have to do the starter trick.

Other than that, the side bolts on the PS pump and the AC compressor are kind of a pain in the ass to get to. I did have to cut a slot into the screw that holds the little bracket/ground onto the compressor to get it off with a flat head. A normal phillips didn't have a chance.

Everything else has been pretty straight forward.

on the PS pump, just remove the pulley, leave the pump bolted in place. its MUCH easier.

 

[Jeremy556]

Black,

Thanks for the write up. I went to the auto parts store to get some ultra black for the Thermostat housing gasket, and looked for an 03+ 4runner manual. They didn't have any either, so I am starting to wonder if they exist (Haynes anyway). I got some Torque specs for the 2UZ-FE from a tundra forum. When I do my final write up, I'll list the torque specs for all the major stuff.

He has a link to a PDF from the factory service manual in his post, much better than any auto parts store manual.

Well, my 400 ft-lb impact wrench didn't do the trick on the crank bolt. I am going to see if the local auto parts store rents out any air tools with a little more grunt. If that doesn't pan out, I'll have to do the starter trick.

You'll probably need a big 3/4" or 1" impact to get it off, if you can even fit one in there. There should be a tool available to hold the crank pulley, then use some 48" breaker bars.

 

[cpark_12]

A good 1/2" impact will get it off. I just finished mine up today and I have a 10 year old Craftsman Professional Series impact and it zipped it right on off! Now, that specialty tool would have come in handy tightening the crank pulley back up!!!

 

[horsey]

Sorry, not to hijack this thread, but do you (BlackWorksInc) recommend I should change my timing belt with 46,000 miles and 9 1/2 old 4runner soon? I don't do any towing yet and usually do not rev my car pass 2000 rpm.
Thanks!

 

[chumNcider]

Thanks again for the PDF link and the write up, Black. It has been very helpful.

I didn't make a lot of progress yesterday. A friend of mine invited me out for some drinks around lunch time. It was city skip day and this bar downtown had free beer. My friend had a VIP pass to another area of the free booze, which had some food special and non beer special ($2 mixed drinks). Anyway, long story short, I ended up drinking until around midnight, so no work was done on the 4runner yesterday.

So today, I picked up a 3' 1" galvanized steel pipe to use as a cheater bar with my breaker bar. I disconnected the coil packs, hooked up the battery, set the 22mm socket with the cheater bar on it onto the crank bolt, and then turned the engine over to loosen the crank bolt. It worked, but it did move the crank a tad.

After that I removed the pully. It just slid right off. No puller needed. Then the plate behind it and the gear cover. Once I could see the gear cover and the pimple behind it. I put the crank bolt back it and rotated the engine until I had the V in the gear lined up with the pimple. The cam shaft marks don't line up perfectly with the markings but they are pretty damn close and I am assuming this is do to the belt being slightly stretched.

The belt still looks new, the bearings still look new, the water pump has no leaks or signs of leakage. The hydraulic tensioner looks new. Basically, I think I could have gotten by with just the timing belt/waterpump this time, but I figured its only an extra $75 in parts I might as well do it while I have it apart.


Anyone know why the manual has you rotate the crank back approx. 50 degrees prior to removing the hydraulic tensioner? The youtube video doesn't mention this at all.

 

[chumNcider]

Ok, so I want to double check that I didn't screw up before I put the new belt on.

Before I removed the crank bolt, I marked the timing belt on the 2 camshafts. Everything was lined up as described in the manual. Then I used the starter bump method to loosen the bolt.

When that happened the crank rotated forward some, instead of just rotating it back some (bolt was loose had to tighten it first because every time I tried to rotate it back it would loosen), I rotated a full rotation until the cam gear marks and the crank gear mark were lined up again and then removed the crank bolt. I didn't realize it at the time, but I'm probably in the wrong spot now?

So then, I am looking in the manual and it says to rotate the crank back 50 degrees. So I put the crank bolt back on (again), then tighten it ( so rotating it forward a bit), with the intention of rotating it back, but every time I tried to rotate it back, it just loosened, so I decided I would just do another full rotation, and then roll it back 50. Which I did. So then I removed the tensioner.

I looked at my marks, and I noticed the marks I put on the belt, were no longer on the belt (the cam gear marks were lined up like they are supposed to be but the marks I put on the belt were gone). I figured they must have gotten rubbed off by the tensioners. So I made new marks on the belt.

So I removed the belt. Once I had the belt removed, I saw my original marks, and thats when all of this dawned on me.

When I was originally turning the crank to set everything up, the marks on the cam gears and crank pully would line up with the timing marks on every full rotation. I rotated through 4 full rotations and each one landed right on the marks. So eventually I just figured that one full rotation of the cam gear marks/crank marks = return to top dead center. Now I am starting to thing I figured that wrong. If I figured wrong, then I've got a little bit of a predicament to figure out.

Here is how everything looked before I rotated the crank bolt such that the cam gear timing marks completed a full rotation (twice) and then back 50 degrees (these rotations were based on the the little pimple on the engine/crank gear V and the cam gear marks, rather than the crank bolt cover marks).

It also seemed like the right cam gear moved once the tensioner was removed (without the belt moving).

So, looking at the pics. I lined up the cam marks with the timing mark (not the T), and the 0 mark on the crank pully. Then I rotated forward to the white dot on the crank pully, and that moved the cam gear to the T mark instead of the timing mark (which is how it is shown on the youtube video that most people use to do their timing belt change). According to Blacks, picture though, he had the crank pulley aligned to the white dot, and the cam gear marks aligned to the timing marks (not the T) at the same time.

Another thing I did different is I rotated back 50 degrees from the "pimple" as the manual shows, before removing the tensioner.

 

[chumNcider]

Looking at the manual, it looks like aslong as I set the timing marks on the cam gears, and then turn the crank so that the notch on the crank gear is aligned with the pimple, then I will be fine. Just to be sure, I'll remove the spark plugs and turn the engine by hand after I reinstall the new belt.

I also found this on another forum:


The white mark on the crank dampener indicates "top dead center" for the number 1 cylinder only. The camshafts position, relative to crankshaft position, determines whether or not the pistons are on their intake, compression, power, or exhaust strokes.Since each piston reaches it's own TDC once per crankshaft revolution, 1 piston out of 8 is at TDC for every 45 degrees of crankshaft rotation. If you need to realign the camshafts to the crank..... be aware that the toyota V8 is an interference engine. Valve damage will occur if you rotate the crank without using caution. The following is the safest way to realign the timing belt without risking major damage to the engine.
1. remove the spark plugs, this step will allow you to turn the engine by hand and let you feel for any piston to valve contact.
2. Gently turn the crank to 22.5 degrees BTDC ( before top dead center ) or ATDC (after top dead center). This position will assure that none of the 8 pistons is at TDC, which reduces the chances of piston to valve contact.
3.Realign the camshaft pullies to the respective timing marks.
4. Rotate the crankshaft back to TDC.
5. Install the timing belt on the engine.
6. Rotate the engine by hand a few times and double check the belt alignment.
7. Reinstall the spark plugs.
Provided that you put everything else back together correctly during the reinstall phase, your engine should run fine.

 

[chumNcider]

So I think I was overthinking things a little bit, and got a little confused due to following 3 different guides... (should of just stuck to the manual)

Before I removed the belt, I had the marks where they were supposed to be according to the manual. I did 2 complete rotations and 50 degrees back, but they were full rotations of the Cam Gears (not sure how many rotations of the crank that corresponds to).

So since my last post:

I pulled all the spark plugs (I had planned on putting in new plugs as part of this service anyway).

Replaced the waterpump (my kit came with an extra o-ring besides the one for the tube), the idler pulleys, and the hydraulic tensioner. The original tensioner looked brand new, but I already bought another one so ... I put it in. Incidentally if you have pipe clamps, they work great for recompressing the old tensioner. I did it just for the heck of it.

The cam and crank seals look perfect. No crud build up, cracking, drying out. They look good. I think I am going to leave them be. I hope that doesn't bite me later, but this engine was so clean inside, I could have eaten off of it. I was really amazed at how pristine everything looked.

So after all that,

I rotated the crank to 25 degrees BTDC mark (the pimple on the engine casing). Note: It is so much easier to rotate without the spark plugs. Then I turned the cam gears to their timing marks (+1/2 for left bank, and +1 for right bank). Then I turned the crank back to TDC. Then I put the Tbelt on, making sure all the marks lined up (cam gears and crank).

I am going to turn the crank a few revolutions just to be extra sure that there is no interference then I'll start reassembling everything else.

Here are some pics with the belt on (Of note: the pimple that identifies TDC on the crank, and the little divot timing mark on the crank).

- forgot to mention these were taken before I installed the tensioner. With the tensioner installed, the gear move into proper alignment

 

[chumNcider]

I turned the crank by hand about 8 complete revolutions. Didn't detect any interference. It turned very smoothly and easily. After that I decided to start buttoning everything back up.

so I put the following back on
crank plate (forgot the actual name)
Crank cover
crank pulley
crank dampener (I don't have a torque wrench that goes to 181 ft-lbs so I set my impact wrench to 200 lbs and let it have it)
Fan bracket
Right, left, and middle Timing belt covers
AC compressor
Alternator
Power Steering Pump

Still have left to do tomorrow:

oil cooler hoses
Thermostat/Thermostat housing
Serpentine Belt
Fan Clutch
Fan
Radiator shroud
Radiator
Radiator hoses
New Spark plugs
New Radiator fluid

 

[Jeremy556]

Sorry, I haven't read all of that...

After you remove the crank pulley bolt, you should remove the spark plugs so you aren't fighting compression.

As long as you lined up all of the correct timing marks, released the tensioner, and verified the timing marks are still aligned, you should be good. I always spin it a few times to make damn sure there is no piston/valve contact before starting to button it back up, then check all of the timing marks again, and the manual, twice.

 

[chumNcider]

I rotated it a bunch by hand to make sure there was no interference.

As far as making sure all the timing marks line up. When I turn the crank, the marks always line up (ie: the cam gear marks are at the right spot when the crank mark is at the right spot). That doesn't mean the arrow on the belt will align with the marks though on every rotation.

The arrow on the belt doesn't come around and fall on the cam gear marks on every rotation. I would assume it will fall on it occasionally, but I guess the main purpose of the marks is to ensure proper spacing (teeth) when installing. When I did the install, everything was line up, but after the first full rotation, the white arrow marks were not on the cam gear marks.

I think that is what got me confused at first. I was thinking it would always fall at the same spot on the belt, but in reality it will change on each rotation. As long as the cam gears line up at the right spot when the crank is at TDC, then that's really all that matters.

 

[Jeremy556]

Right, what's important are the timing marks on the cam gears and crankshaft, relative to the marks on the engine case. I haven't been in a 4.7, but I assume those white marks on the belt are just to help you align it on installation, and not have to re-remove the tensioner if you're a tooth off because of slack.

 

[chumNcider]

I finished buttoning everything back on. Misplaced a spark plug tube seal somewhere (or it was missing to begin with - more likely). I had a parts bin with a bunch of little drawers so I had everything numbered and separated into bins. It made putting everything back together pretty easy.

After everything was back together, I started her up. She hesitated for a split second then cranked up like normal and then idled as usual. Going to drive her around a bit.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

It seems you figured it out on your own, I'm glad everything worked out.

I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to respond to your post until today. I was out on a camping trip with the Toyota120 guys and haven't been near a computer until today. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[chumNcider]

No problem black. My problem was that I watched the video on youtube where the guy insists how critical it is to mark the belt, and then match up the marks to the new belt, and then ensure that all the transferred marks match up when the new belt is installed. This didn't make a lot of sense to me, (I understand the purpose but in retrospect if you are using a new factory belt and have the right belt, it is unecessasary - I can see the benefit if you are reusing the belt). So the more I thought about it, I started to wonder more about TDC and how the rotations of the crank aligned to the cam and it got me a little disconbobulated. If you want to be cautious, I think all you really need to do is mark the belt, count the teeth, and make sure the same number of teeth are between the marks on the new belt.

After a little more research, and reading the F-king manual, it made a lot more sense to me.

Black, if you don't mind I would like to use a couple of your pictures when I do my write up. I plan on taking the manual, adding redlines/comments, and pictures from your write up and pictures that I took as well.

As far as how it all turned out... so far so good. I've been driving her around and she seems the same as before. The engine seems a little smoother/responsive, but honestly, I think it's in my head. There were only a couple of bolts I couldn't get a torque wrench on (mostly mount bolts), but everything else got torqued to spec. I plugged everything back in, didn't break any mounting clips (except for the ones that hold the little plastic cover between the headlights - I think Toyota charged me $2 per clip...jeez), made sure all hoses and wires were routed/secured as before. I did manage to misplace a spark plug tube seal. I was really anal about tracking everything so I am at a loss for where this could have gone. I ran by the toyota dealership (few miles from my house) and picked up a new one for $3. I also put in new spark plugs, but got the platinums instead of iridiums because I didn't know any better and figured spark plugs are spark plugs (thats how it was growing up anyway). After doing a little reading I see that is still essentially true, but iridiums have a longer service life. The other thing is the platinums came gapped at about .032" which is what I read on the tundra forums is the proper gap. The owners manual says .043", and the denso website says .043" as well. Additionally, the original iridium plugs were at .043". I gapped all my spark plugs to .043 (keep in mind if you buy iridiums they come pregapped and you do not want to try and gap them as the iridium is brittle).