Incorrect tie rods, rub, alignment? Doh!

[georunner_sjc]

Hello T4R community,

1996 4Runner LTD, 4x4, Falken WP AT3 265/75R16, Camburg UCAs, Bilstein 5160 / 6112

I have a cold one :cheers:for anyone that might be able to help or confirm this one. I (local tire shop) put some new tires on the 96' 4Runner yesterday. One of the motivations for the new tires was a new alignment, hoping to correct a tiny amount of front tire rub at the hard angle at the pinch weld.

At the tire shop, the tech mentioned that the tie rods were 'out of thread' thereby limiting his ability to align the wheels with a bit more caster, to eliminate the rub.

Our guess, that the tie rods were not OEM. Maybe replaced by the PO?? (With only 89k miles, I hate to wonder why.)

Based on everyone's experience, do your tie rods will show a good amount of available thread for adjustment? See mine here, they are maxed with no thread remaining. I will be replacing them ASAP most likely.

Would love an expert opinion! Thanks in advance to all.

 

[nobb]

Do you have a pic of the full tie rod? Are they installed left & right properly? Because these can easily be swapped accidentally of which then they'll rub.

 

[georunner_sjc]

Do you have a pic of the full tie rod? Are they installed left & right properly? Because these can easily be swapped accidentally of which then they'll rub.

Here is the drivers side, then passenger. Thanks nobb for weighing in!

 

[nobb]

Kind of hard to tell still. Need to look at it from the top/bottom. Go on RockAuto.com and look at the images for the left/right outer tie rods and see if the position you have them installed matches the right part.

 

[gamefreakgc]

They are most certainly supposed to have threads shown. I can see 6 threads on mine both sides so whoever installed them didn't mark the position of the old tie rod ends when they replaced them. You'll want to raise up the front end on a jack, loosen the lock nut (not sure why you have washers on there either) and rotate the inner nut on each side so you have some threads to work with. This will make it drive terrible though until you can get another alignment.

 

[MaineRunna]

There should be threads showing. I think to get the camber in spec they have the LCA's maxed out inward as far as they go and to get the toe back in spec they had to adjust the tie rods in that far. I can't see if they are on backwards, but I don't think that would cause this problem and I doubt they are the wrong parts. Was it ever totalled or hit hard up front?

 

[georunner_sjc]

Kind of hard to tell still. Need to look at it from the top/bottom. Go on RockAuto.com and look at the images for the left/right outer tie rods and see if the position you have them installed matches the right part.

Thanks again nobb, I will look there. Much appreciated.

 

[georunner_sjc]

Thank you Maine, I am not aware of any major collision impact to the vehicle. No registered accidents on the Carfax. That said, I am the 3rd owner. So, let's say the tie rods are the correct, what are my options here (praying.. if any)!

Is there such a thing as a tie rod with a longer thread option??

 

[georunner_sjc]

So, the story continues. I had the 4Runner at the shop today. The mechanic, who I trust and has done great work for me in general compared the existing tie rods against a new set of OEM ones he intended to replace mine with. No distinguishable difference. So, logic says that something else is pushing the alignment off so that all the adjustment range is being used up. The mechanic recommended I seek out some UCAs that may have adjustable uniball position. Basically, I need to increase my toe in, I am told.

Sooo, any recommendations out there? So far I have come across these. To be honest, I do not know exactly what type of adjustability I am looking for. Doh.

25460 - SPC Adjustable Upper Control Arms (95.5-04 Tacoma and 96-02 4Runner)
JBA STD High Caster Upper A-arms for 1996-2004 Toyota Tacoma

 

[nevada]

So, the story continues. I had the 4Runner at the shop today. The mechanic, who I trust and has done great work for me in general compared the existing tie rods against a new set of OEM ones he intended to replace mine with. No distinguishable difference. So, logic says that something else is pushing the alignment off so that all the adjustment range is being used up. The mechanic recommended I seek out some UCAs that may have adjustable uniball position. Basically, I need to increase my toe in, I am told.

Sooo, any recommendations out there? So far I have come across these. To be honest, I do not know exactly what type of adjustability I am looking for. Doh.

25460 - SPC Adjustable Upper Control Arms (95.5-04 Tacoma and 96-02 4Runner)
JBA STD High Caster Upper A-arms for 1996-2004 Toyota Tacoma

that wont fix the issue with the tie rods.

maybe its the wrong rack? I have a vague recollection of dealing with something like this years ago. I would think some shorter tie rods wouldn't be too difficult to find. perhaps there was a mix up between some Tacoma and 4runner parts?
do they use the same length rack?

 

[georunner_sjc]

do they use the same length rack?

Should know by Monday/Tuesday if the full rack assembly is incorrect. Yikes.

 

[weekendclimber]

This is confusing. Maybe you're getting your terminology mixed up. The tie rods go in and out to adjust the "Toe". The caster and camber are adjusted at the cams on the LCA. Is it the "Toe" that's off?

 

[georunner_sjc]

This is confusing. Maybe you're getting your terminology mixed up. The tie rods go in and out to adjust the "Toe". The caster and camber are adjusted at the cams on the LCA. Is it the "Toe" that's off?

It is very possible that I have things mixed up. I can say this. In order to alleviate the rub at the pinch weld, we need increase a the amount of positive caster. But, when the car was on the alignment rack, the tech is not able to do so because the of limited (maxed) range of adjustment at the tie rod. Sadly I have never aligned a car, but I am guessing that lack of camber adjustment range in the tie rod is preventing the steering system from coming together properly.

At this point I think most likely due to some incorrect parts in there...

 

[weekendclimber]

It is very possible that I have things mixed up. I can say this. In order to alleviate the rub at the pinch weld, we need increase a the amount of positive caster. But, when the car was on the alignment rack, the tech is not able to do so because the of limited (maxed) range of adjustment at the tie rod. Sadly I have never aligned a car, but I am guessing that lack of camber adjustment range in the tie rod is preventing the steering system from coming together properly.

At this point I think most likely due to some incorrect parts in there...

The tie rods only adjust "Toe". "Camber" is the in and out lean of the wheel/tire as seen from the front or rear of the tire. "Caster" is the angle the wheel/tire rotates around when turning. "Caster" and "Camber" can only be adjusted with the cam bolts on the lower control arms. If you have after market upper control arms (SPC Light Racing UCA specifically) you can also adjust "Caster" and "Camber" on the UCA.

Not being pendantic, just want to make sure it's clear what your issue is. To me it's sounds like your "Toe" can no longer be adjusted due to the maxed out outer tie rods.