Is it illegal to Have a LED Bulb in a Non-LED Housing?
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The answer to that question is going to be on a state by state basis. And it's likely not going to be a clear law saying no LED's in halogen housings, but instead a law prohibiting modifying headlights, or something more vague about the requirements of headlights that the LED's might not meet.
I know but i'm getting mixed results and it's just confusing. I'm just wondering because I already installed them on my Civic and it work and looks like a regular halogen. Oh well.
Lucas606
New member
I can't recall there begin anything against having LED bulbs in reflector or projector housings. Just adjust them correctly and you'll be good! I've have had LED bulbs in my projector housings for over two years and I haven't had any issues with the law. Same goes for my friends who have reflector housings
They are staying on the car and not coming off LOL. Mine didn't need any adjustments and was just a drop in with modifications to add the resistor.
Brian.
Member
Pretty much it's going to be illegal. LED bulbs designed for incandescent housings won't be DOT certified/legal. Don't even have to look for laws about "modifying headlights" when the bulb itself is "for off-highway use only".
And yes, there are LEOs out there who;ll write tickets for that. I was pulled over for a blue-tinted bulb way back in the 90's and given a ticket, have heard the same from many others through the years.
Too Stroked
Member
I'm assuming you're talking about headlight bulbs, not parking light, directional, etc. I'd suggest that there are actually two components to your question. 1) Are they legal and 2) Do you really want to.
The federal government sets standards for auto manufacturers to follow when designing and building vehicles. Some of those standards have to do with lighting. Manufacturers can install LED lighting in vehicles - as long as the final result meets the lighting standards. And that's the rub.
Most folks don't understand that a headlight is actually a system with a light source, reflector, lens and housing. All of these are designed to work together. Change any one of them and you run the risk of the system no longer working correctly. That's what happens when you install "drop in" LED bulbs in a headlight housing designed for halogen bulbs. Why don't they work correctly even though the marketers say they do? Read this:
Why Most LED Headlight Upgrades Don't Really Work: An Expert Explains
So if it was as easy to convert headlights to LED by simply slapping a different bulb in the housing, why didn't auto manufacturers do it? Because it doesn't work as shown above. And it's not legal for them - even though that would have been a far cheaper way to go - if it actually worked.
Now that we know why one should not install LED bulbs in a housing designed for halogens, why are so many people selling them? Because they can. Or should I say because they could. There were so many complaints about the poor performance of LED bulbs and the glare they caused for oncoming drivers that the feds finally decided to crack down. Every reputable manufacturer of these bulbs was forced to pull them off the market. Some folks get around it by stating that their bulbs are "for off road use only" though.
In summary, generally speaking, slapping LED bulbs in a housing designed for a halogen bulb will result in a decrease in performance and excessive glare for oncoming drivers.
For those that think they simply need to re-aim their headlights to eliminate the glare for oncoming drivers, I have one question: When you replace your headlight bulbs with proper halogen bulbs, do you have to re-aim them? No. Then why should you have to re-aim them for LED bulbs because it shifts your whole headlight pattern down - reducing your effective range.
The federal government sets standards for auto manufacturers to follow when designing and building vehicles. Some of those standards have to do with lighting. Manufacturers can install LED lighting in vehicles - as long as the final result meets the lighting standards. And that's the rub.
Most folks don't understand that a headlight is actually a system with a light source, reflector, lens and housing. All of these are designed to work together. Change any one of them and you run the risk of the system no longer working correctly. That's what happens when you install "drop in" LED bulbs in a headlight housing designed for halogen bulbs. Why don't they work correctly even though the marketers say they do? Read this:
Why Most LED Headlight Upgrades Don't Really Work: An Expert Explains
So if it was as easy to convert headlights to LED by simply slapping a different bulb in the housing, why didn't auto manufacturers do it? Because it doesn't work as shown above. And it's not legal for them - even though that would have been a far cheaper way to go - if it actually worked.
Now that we know why one should not install LED bulbs in a housing designed for halogens, why are so many people selling them? Because they can. Or should I say because they could. There were so many complaints about the poor performance of LED bulbs and the glare they caused for oncoming drivers that the feds finally decided to crack down. Every reputable manufacturer of these bulbs was forced to pull them off the market. Some folks get around it by stating that their bulbs are "for off road use only" though.
In summary, generally speaking, slapping LED bulbs in a housing designed for a halogen bulb will result in a decrease in performance and excessive glare for oncoming drivers.
For those that think they simply need to re-aim their headlights to eliminate the glare for oncoming drivers, I have one question: When you replace your headlight bulbs with proper halogen bulbs, do you have to re-aim them? No. Then why should you have to re-aim them for LED bulbs because it shifts your whole headlight pattern down - reducing your effective range.
jgue467
Senior Member
I've run LEDs in OEM housings for about 8 years now, ZERO issues.
First of all, not one single time has anyone flashed me indicating my lights were too bright or seemed to be on 'high' beam, not one single time.
Second, all modern LEDs are designed with reflectors of their own to match original bulbs and match up to the housings reflectors. Take note of your original bulbs reflectors and you'll notice the newer LEDs are in the same place.
Better, safer lighting is all we all want, not to blind folks.
I've never seen a cop pull anyone over in Austin area for headlights, its always for one of two things, speeding or Drinking and driving.
I just try Prime items on amazon so i can return free of cost if they don't work out as advertised. Luck all.
First of all, not one single time has anyone flashed me indicating my lights were too bright or seemed to be on 'high' beam, not one single time.
Second, all modern LEDs are designed with reflectors of their own to match original bulbs and match up to the housings reflectors. Take note of your original bulbs reflectors and you'll notice the newer LEDs are in the same place.
Better, safer lighting is all we all want, not to blind folks.
I've never seen a cop pull anyone over in Austin area for headlights, its always for one of two things, speeding or Drinking and driving.
I just try Prime items on amazon so i can return free of cost if they don't work out as advertised. Luck all.
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Too Stroked
Member
I'm glad you're happy with your LEDs. But as a retired engineer, I trust science. Here's a great thread by a good friend of mine who happens to be a true expert in the field of automotive lighting.
Why LEDs should not be run in Halogen reflectors | Tacoma World
BTW, I have yet to see a drop in LED bulb "with its own reflector" as you state. Their own light source? Yes. A reflector? No.
Lucas606
New member
Just leave them in. It's extremely unlikely that you're going to get pulled over for having LED bulbs installed on your rig. Yesterday I saw another 4th gen on the road with the exact same lighting as I driving behind me. He/she had LED low beams and fogs. I wasn't being blinded at all in any of my mirrors, there was zero glare coming from their rig, and I could actually see them behind me in the torrential downpour that I was driving through yesterday. The cars that had halogens installed I could hardly see them. Science or not, in my opinion, LEDs perform better and provide more lighting than a halogen ever will.
Brian.
Member
We *ALL* want better, safer lighting. But you're pointing out anecdotal "evidence". And there's a whole lot of study that's shown that people who spend money on something are more likely to believe it works. I found this to be particularly true while working as a Dyno operator at "public" days (a free run during some event). People would roll up with bolt-on this, and bolt-on that with "claims" of having tons of HP gain. They bought it, they tried to sell everyone else on it. In most cases, they were making about the same as stock, in some cases LESS than stock.
That no one has "flashed" you means nothing, I've passed hundreds of vehicles with blinding bright lights and never flashed them (doesn't do anything other than incite road-rage). similarly, I've goofed and forgotten I'd had high beams on and not been flashed. Someone flashing, or not, doesn't really indicate anything. I get flashed most often during the day, without any lights on and about the Only time I flash anyone (day or night) is when there's a serious road hazard (road blocked mostly).
Bottom line, rubber meets the road, find an LED drop-in bulb that clearly states it is DOT approved for on-road use. Just one. Don't care what it costs. You find me that and I'll eat my left shoe. Don't have to "believe" any science, or trust anyone's personal motive for or against. I'll gladly wait as long as it takes, but please refrain from saying (or insinuating) "it's all good" until/unless you find that unicorn, please.
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For things like brake lights and turn signals you have the same issue. Any name brand LED replacement for a turn signal or brake light is going to be clearly marked as off road only. I doubt you would get pulled over for it anywhere, but if they aren't approved for use they aren't technically legal. While off brands LED replacements may not be marked as off road only, they certainly haven't been approved as replacements.
Too Stroked
Member
Now that you've clarified they're not in your headlights, I can pretty much assure you that you will not have a problem with getting a ticket. Nor will you have a problem with glare.
I should add that drop in HIDs are even worse than drop in LEDs in headlights. And the wiring and installation is significantly harder.
2021nightshade4x4
New member
Not illegal at all.
However, understand that LED lights appear differently behind colored lenses so conventional logic goes out the window. You cannot put a white LED behind a colored lens and expect it will be fine like that.
Red turn signal gets a red bulb. Period. Whether in a clear or red housing.
Amber turn signal gets an amber bulb. Period. Whether in a clear or amber housing.
The pure (bluish) light of a “white” LED will wash out colored lenses and give you pink brake lights and white turn signals.
Now THAT will get you pulled over. Anything other than DOT red for tails and amber or DOT red for turns is an infraction and WILL get you pulled.
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2021nightshade4x4
New member
Many aftermarket don’t specifically state they’re DOT approved. It’s more a liability claiming such than benefits the manufacturer going through the hassle of obtaining it. This is not unique to the automotive market. (Oakley sunglasses are almost all Z.87 rated, you’d think the manufacturer would like to advertise this, but for some reason they are not interested in putting the designation on their lenses.)
What’s important is the driver be aware of any implications of installing a non-halogen bulb. Maybe headlight lenses are fogged over and HID blind drivers because the output is 100% glare. (Remedy: clear lenses or replace with euro style clear lenses or projectors).
Fortunately OP is talking about a turn signal. The only two options for turn signal bulbs are reflector (halogen or LED) and direct-firing LED such as in narrow installations like spoilers with a single row of bulbs or modern OEM taillights that are sealed and do not allow for individual bulb replacement.
OP will be fine. Test extensively in your driveway. Make sure there are no weird issues with flashing speed with either turn signal or hazards, and that the proper, strong color appears.
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jgue467
Senior Member
Well 'everyone' else is Happy too (no high beam flashes) yet....
Reflector? check out the 4th pic, check out the front design. Same as a halogen, except its not a power hog, further reaching yet not blinding or BLUE, hate that, it is just simply white light.
Amazon.com: AUXITO H4 9003 LED Headlight Bulbs, 12000LM Per Set 6500K Xenon White for High and Low Beam Hi/Lo Plug and Play, Pack of 2: Automotive
Hey its just my opinion, stick with halogens if that suits better...
Speaking of science, have you checked out the top of the line lighting from europe? 84 LEDS that use cameras to automatically locate oncoming traffic and shut down/dim appropriate LEDS to avoid blinding them then return to full brightness, its like driving with high beams on all the time until the system dims them to be nice to other drivers.
Now This is science: Why Is America Stuck with Bad Headlights?
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2021nightshade4x4
New member
Yes we tend to disallow any advancing headlight technology for a “either they can see or I can see... but not both” paradox.
As for headlights, halogens are fine in any housing, reflector or projector.
LED have to be indexed depending on WHICH type of housing they are installed. This is done with either a set screw or the bulb is able to rotate past “locking in” to reach proper alignment.
HID tend to be right at home in projectors, but require a shield when used in reflector housings. Toyota is a great example of a manufacturer that has pulled this off. 2000s Prius, Avalon, Sienna all had xenon HID in reflector housings and did just fine. Bulb type was special “D2R” with a shield for glare instead of “D2S” which was manufactured without one.
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