Is the Federal Gun Grab over?

[bofa]

The problem with family/ genetics is practically everyone has some form of mental illness in their family. Mental illness is very poorly understood and the term itself is very broad/ vague. How sick is too sick?

On a related note, my wife and I were discussing the irony of all these cops running around MA with AR-type guns. Why is it OK for them to have one and not citizens? You're telling me that they can go through a relatively short period of training to be a LEO and all of a sudden they are worthy of having one? You're telling me that ALL cops are mentally stable and would never do anything violent of foolish with a gun? You're telling me NO cops have troubled kids/ relatives? Not trying to attack police officers here....my favorite uncle is one (retired). I just think it's a little inconsistent. And the LEOs I know personally are big-time 2nd A supporters. Though that might have to do with midwestern culture more than profession.

This is a great point and something I've discussed with others. At some level we have to trust that the guys the government is handing these weapons and training to are stable enough to manage it properly. Large in part, LEOs and military live up to that responsibility every day. However, we also know that, be it underlying mental health, stress, or some new mental trigger, these people can go in the wrong direction.

We trust these guys to do the right thing. The government should trust its law-abiding citizens to do the same. The only difference between me and a cop, realistically, is a trip to the academy. The only difference between me and a grunt, is bootcamp. These people are citizens too, just empowered based on their role in society. To be frank, the mental and educational qualifications for both are far less than my 8-5 requires. Our culture empowers its citizens and we should be able to maintain that. (No, this is not a knock on any men/women that have served in the armed forces or military... I'm just making a point that we have plenty of people capable for these roles that have taken a different path in life and serve a different role in society. Their uniform does not necessarily make them more qualified than a private individual.).

 

[mikebontoft]

I know a lot of people say "times are changing and we need to give up all of these so called rights because they don't apply to our world now."

What does that truly say to you guys, though? Are we born into being on a set path throughout our life, guided by rules, regulations, and laws that would eventually control every aspect of what we do, or do we just not care anymore? Understand that this is not about gun control, or any other single thing. It is about retaining our freedom that the people of this country have worked so hard to build.

Maybe, just maybe, these restrictions drive those with weaker minds to insanity. You never know. Look at many of our major events, both in years past and this week. How many of those stemmed from the roots of foreign citizens? Why did they come to America? To flee their government?


ugh that felt weird to write... I don't do "that." But it's an interesting thought process.

 

[KCcarguy]

^^^well said bofa :cheers:

 

[bofa]

I know a lot of people say "times are changing and we need to give up all of these so called rights because they don't apply to our world now."

What does that truly say to you guys, though? Are we born into being on a set path throughout our life, guided by rules, regulations, and laws that would eventually control every aspect of what we do, or do we just not care anymore? Understand that this is not about gun control, or any other single thing. It is about retaining our freedom that the people of this country have worked so hard to build.

Maybe, just maybe, these restrictions drive those with weaker minds to insanity. You never know. Look at many of our major events, both in years past and this week. How many of those stemmed from the roots of foreign citizens? Why did they come to America? To flee their government?


ugh that felt weird to write... I don't do "that." But it's an interesting thought process.

It's a valid consideration IMO. The US government has a habit of pushing its will on people, even it's own people. As a government by the people, for the people, once elected, we have little say or recourse until its time to vote again, and even then popular vote may not be enough.

I do think that some of the legislators have the right intent but quickly forget a free country without freedoms is not a free country at all. This could become the very dictatorship our forefathers escaped hundreds of years ago. The difference is, there is no new land to run off to. Any conflict will be internal and I just hope we never get to that point (again).

 

[absolute yota]

"The wrong hands"? According to who? If you listen to Feinstein, the "wrong hands" includes everybody but her. And two wrongs don't make a right - a federal invasion of privacy in the name of "gun control" is hardly the right way to ensure that the people are armed and capable of insurrection, don't you think?

I think you took me the wrong way. Some post were snuck in before i posted. I was referring to the screening for mental illness. Not genetic screening but a psyc evaluation or something wouldnt scare me. In any case I am a guy who carries every day, loves his black rifles as well as (might as well admit it) all other guns and knows what they can do when in the "wrong hands" as in mentaly unsound or immature individuals who may not be in the proper minset to be armed. Its a huge responsibility in a word of growingly irresponsible people.Just wanting or owning a gun doesnt automatically make you responsible. Plenty of *******s get guns that shouldn't. I am in no way anti-gun and I disagree with banning any weapons, at the same time I think permiting and backround checks are great. I think that the house visit the police made t my house to determine the actuall enviroment the applicant lives in is a good step forward from meeting an officer at the station. As a law abiding citizen I have no problem with simple regulation to make sure the good guys (us) are the ones with guns. Flame me for wanting what we already had in CT before the new ban if you want to. A decent gun control plan that wasnt overly restricted, and maybe make the permiting/purchasing process a little more personal to keep some people with mental issues from obtaining firearms.

 

[M1911]

Some folks here have way too much confidence in psychiatry. Even experienced psychiatrists are no better at predicting whether someone will become violent than flipping a coin.

And no, there are no genetic markers that will reliably determine whether someone will be violent.

 

[MtnT4R]

I know a lot of people say "times are changing and we need to give up all of these so called rights because they don't apply to our world now."

I hear this quite a bit too, and that line of logic is exceedingly dangerous, and maybe deceivingly so. Human nature is painfully simple; people want power, and power corrupts. Our founding fathers understood this, and built a system of checks and balances to prevent one person or group from achieving total power in a delicate system that has paradoxically proven to be the strongest the world has yet seen.

Times are changing, but human nature is not. We are not more 'civilized' than we were two hundred years ago; we simply use more advanced technology and use more politically correct words when we speak. If anything, times have become far more dangerous, and so the ability to retain the freedoms we still have is more important than ever.

 

[JohnnyT]

Some folks here have way too much confidence in psychiatry. Even experienced psychiatrists are no better at predicting whether someone will become violent than flipping a coin.

And no, there are no genetic markers that will reliably determine whether someone will be violent.

All they have to do is be right about 1 person and it would be worth it......and I'm certain they'd have a much better record than that.

1 less lunatic. 1 less senseless killing. 1 less headline. Totally worth it.

 

[ALBPM]

Senator Dianne Feinstein
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washington, DC 20002
April 19, 2013

Dear Homemaker,

Mass bombings are a serious problem in our country, and I have watched this problem get worse and
worse over the 40 years I have been in public life. From the 1960's bombings by people like Bill Ayers,
now a respected university professor, to the recent massacre at the Boston Marathon, I have seen more
and more of these killings. I have had families tell me that they no longer feel safe in a mall, in a movie
theater, or at Grandma's house for Sunday dinner, because these deadly bombs are so readily available.
These weapons too often fall into the hands of grievance killers, juveniles, gangs, the deranged, and
university professors.

These bombs are easily made from standard household items such as pressure cookers. Therefore, I am
calling for regulation on these devices. I have had the legislation in my silverware drawer, just waiting
for the proper time.

I recognize that the Constitution provides an individual right to prepare meals, but I do not believe that
right is unlimited or that it precludes taking action to prevent mass bombings. Indeed, the Court has held
that this right, like other constitutional rights, is not unlimited. That is why a ban on pressure cookers
will be upheld in the courts. I believe regulation of these killers is appropriate.

No one needs 15 psi to prepare a flavorful stew. I'm preparing legislation that will approach this problem
from several directions, including background checks, registration, and recipe ideas. Black pressure
cookers with thumbhole handles and detachable baskets will be the first targeted, and those with a
capacity of more than 1 quart. Legal pressure cookers must have a button on the lid that serves no actual
purpose but makes it inconvenient to use. Also, a tax on gaskets. Finally, to protect the children, all
pressure cookers must be locked in the kitchen cabinet when not in use.

Once again, thank you for your letter. Although we may disagree, I appreciate hearing from you and will be mindful of your thoughts as the debate on this issue continues. If you have any additional comments
or questions, please do not hesitate to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841.



Sincerely yours,


Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator
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[M1911]

All they have to do is be right about 1 person and it would be worth it......and I'm certain they'd have a much better record than that.

No, they don't, actually.

1 less lunatic. 1 less senseless killing. 1 less headline. Totally worth it.

And all the people who were not going to be violent have their civil rights violated for no reason. Furthermore, think about the unintended consequences. If a gun owner who is depressed knows that he may end up losing his right to own guns, he probably won't get treatment. So now you have a lot of people who should get treatment who don't get it.

You really need to think through the consequences of what you are suggesting.

 

[mikebontoft]

let alone the cost... if we aren't forced the pay it ourselves, guess where the money comes from?

Take this now-captured bomber. It will be interesting to see what happened, because it sounds like he was a completely normal, sane person... in his appearances anyway.

 

[JohnnyT]

No, they don't, actually.



And all the people who were not going to be violent have their civil rights violated for no reason. Furthermore, think about the unintended consequences. If a gun owner who is depressed knows that he may end up losing his right to own guns, he probably won't get treatment. So now you have a lot of people who should get treatment who don't get it.

You really need to think through the consequences of what you are suggesting.

Would you agree to have your "civil rights violated" (OMG) and suffer through a mild inconvenience every couple of years if there was a chance it would get us those kids from Newtown back?

And your next comment is no different than the addicted smoker who doesn't go to the doctor because he may find out he has cancer.

No plan is 100%. You really need to be less dramatic about your rights.

 

[JohnnyT]

let alone the cost... if we aren't forced the pay it ourselves, guess where the money comes from?

Take this now-captured bomber. It will be interesting to see what happened, because it sounds like he was a completely normal, sane person... in his appearances anyway.

Cost is obviously on you. Whaddya think? Want to own your beloved deadly weapons then ya gotta pay the price. Just like when my teenager drives my deadly weapon 4runner and I pay crazy high insurance.

Gotta pay to play, my friend.

 

[dhalsey]

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm#chart

The human cost of gun control. Anyone that would give up their right to bear arms needs a history lesson.

 

[JohnnyT]

Death by "Gun Control"

The human cost of gun control. Anyone that would give up their right to bear arms needs a history lesson.

Wow. You think so little of your own country by comparing it to those paradises on your fancy list?

Shameful.

Why do you live here then if you think such things are likely or even possible?

 

[dhalsey]

Wow. You think so little of your own country by comparing it to those paradises on your fancy list?

Shameful.

Why do you live here then if you think such things are likely or even possible?

Let me get this straight. Do you have any way to protect your family from enemies foreign or domestic? Do you think the bad guys are going to follow your new gun laws. Wake up from your fantasy world. 170,000,000 non military have died in the twentieth century alone from some sort of gun control. They died because they were unable to defend themselves. Will it happen here? No way.. It is the principle behind it though.
I'm done. Your history lesson is over.

 

[mikebontoft]

Cost is obviously on you. Whaddya think? Want to own your beloved deadly weapons then ya gotta pay the price. Just like when my teenager drives my deadly weapon 4runner and I pay crazy high insurance.

Gotta pay to play, my friend.

waited for you to reply... Honestly it's probably not much more of a hassle than having a vehicle inspected and paying the registration. Fine by me. I thought about that later after posting.

I wonder if people felt the same way when they introduced insurance/registration/ yearly inspections as a requirement.

I'd like to see the poll results that our president used during his speech the other day when this gun bill failed. He said that despite 90 percent of Americans voting in favor of the bill, it was shot down by the NRA and politics that got in the way. I don't believe 90% supported it.

 

[M1911]

Would you agree to have your "civil rights violated" (OMG) and suffer through a mild inconvenience every couple of years if there was a chance it would get us those kids from Newtown back?

And your next comment is no different than the addicted smoker who doesn't go to the doctor because he may find out he has cancer.

No plan is 100%. You really need to be less dramatic about your rights.

Less dramatic about my rights? Um, no. Civil rights are what make this country what it is.

Give up my civil rights because someone thinks I might be violent in the future? Give up my civil rights without it being adjudicated by the courts? Giving up my civil rights is a "mild inconvenience"? HELL NO.

I am already in a state where the ability to own a handgun is at the discretion of the chief of police in your town or residence. As a result, there are 350+ different "standards" for licensing -- one for each town.

Our nation was conceived on the idea that everyone had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I can't have life if I am denied the means to defend myself and my family because someone thinks I might be dangerous some time in the future. Prior restraint is not ok.

 

[JohnnyT]

Less dramatic about my rights? Um, no. Civil rights are what make this country what it is.

Give up my civil rights because someone thinks I might be violent in the future? Give up my civil rights without it being adjudicated by the courts? Giving up my civil rights is a "mild inconvenience"? HELL NO.

I am already in a state where the ability to own a handgun is at the discretion of the chief of police in your town or residence. As a result, there are 350+ different "standards" for licensing -- one for each town.

Our nation was conceived on the idea that everyone had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I can't have life if I am denied the means to defend myself and my family because someone thinks I might be dangerous some time in the future. Prior restraint is not ok.

Blah, blah, blah..... You didn't answer my question?

 

[JohnnyT]

Less dramatic about my rights? Um, no. Civil rights are what make this country what it is.

Give up my civil rights because someone thinks I might be violent in the future? Give up my civil rights without it being adjudicated by the courts? Giving up my civil rights is a "mild inconvenience"? HELL NO.

I am already in a state where the ability to own a handgun is at the discretion of the chief of police in your town or residence. As a result, there are 350+ different "standards" for licensing -- one for each town.

Our nation was conceived on the idea that everyone had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I can't have life if I am denied the means to defend myself and my family because someone thinks I might be dangerous some time in the future. Prior restraint is not ok.

Blah, blah, blah..... You didn't answer my question?

I, for one, would gladly submit to a bit of testing every now and again if it made my friends and neighbors more comfortable and live their lives with less concern.