Is There a Lawyer In The House?
- Thread starter Koz
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chunderboy
New member
What happened koz, did it finally get to you?
Well, whatever you are thinkin', count me in.
"YOU GO, WE GO"
Well, whatever you are thinkin', count me in.
"YOU GO, WE GO"
Sac State
New member
When you have taught Toyota a lesson, come up my way, there are some windmills that need to be attacked.
Seriously, you will waste your time. I smell stink behind many cars, not just the Runner.
Actually, at 35K miles, I never notice any obnoxious smells and I always have all windows down.
Seriously, you will waste your time. I smell stink behind many cars, not just the Runner.
Actually, at 35K miles, I never notice any obnoxious smells and I always have all windows down.
Koz
New member
The one thing I've learned in life is, sometimes you have to stand up and make allot of noise to get some action. How do I propose to force Toyota to address this problem? Well first we need to organize, strength is in numbers. One person complaining is useless, but if all of us make allot of noise together someone will listen. I'm sure we could find a lawyer that could help us or at least let us know what are options are. I would think a Class Action Law Suit would get Toyota's attention. You would be surprised at what BAD publicity can do!
Koz
Koz
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Don't do civil law or class action litigation,
but here's some food for thought. Class action litigation is very complex litigation, and the very first step is getting certified as a class. Before and after this certificaiton you must do some pretty time consuming research and detailed facts to establish a cause of action or numerous causes of action.
Then comes the extensive depositons and RFAs (requests for admissions) interrogtories, demands for documents, hiring automotive engineers to analyze thousands of pages of documents, demands for repair and service records for those claiming to have been harmed by the sulfur smell, which kncok on wood I have not suffered from.
Then comes the numerous conferences with opposing lawyers and meetings with judges to encourage seetlement.
What do you think it would take to take on Toyota's lawyers? Now just weight it carefully.....an average lawyer runs $200-300/hour in Los Angeles. Hot shots run $350-400/hour. Just one meeting with your one lawyer in court will run easily $1,000 plus travel. You will need a firm to handle the vast amount of work.....a hotshot firm will bill at astronomical rates becuase they bill senior partner attorneys at $400/hour, associate attorneys at $300/hour, paralegals at about $150/hour, legal secretaries at about $75-100/hour, plus they bill you for postage stamps and envelopes for evey piece of mail! YOu can just imagine how much money it will involve before even getting to trial.
Do you think any good size law firm will put up $100,000-$250,000 of billable hours without a major multi million dollar contigency fee attached? DO you think they would take it if they don't think they have a very good chance to score?
Sulfur smell is not the same as wheeling in some bonehead in a stretcher on a respirator and having this bonehead testify that he smoked 40 years on 3 packs a day and showing the jjry docuemtns from RJ Renyolds or Philip Morris the told tobocco exsecutives to hide the truth form people. It ain't the same as having victims of induistrial waste dumping toxic chemicals in their drinking water and documetns showing they knew abotu it and were hiding it.
People like Toyota and many in the jury pool have Toyotas and many have good expereinces with Toyotas ...do you think they will find sympathey for sulfur smell? What agregious harm have you suffered, they will ask?
So what do you think. When trial time comes, it gets down to a roll of the dice......12 people who were smart enough to get off jury duty deciding your fate with hundreds of thousands of dollars already invested.
Call those big shot law firms like Morrison and Forester, Gibson Dunn and Cruthcer, Latham and Watkins, call those big shot law firms that won multi-millions from tobacco comapnies and see if they are willing to roll their money on it.
Just some cold water before we start yelling sue, sue, sue....
but here's some food for thought. Class action litigation is very complex litigation, and the very first step is getting certified as a class. Before and after this certificaiton you must do some pretty time consuming research and detailed facts to establish a cause of action or numerous causes of action.
Then comes the extensive depositons and RFAs (requests for admissions) interrogtories, demands for documents, hiring automotive engineers to analyze thousands of pages of documents, demands for repair and service records for those claiming to have been harmed by the sulfur smell, which kncok on wood I have not suffered from.
Then comes the numerous conferences with opposing lawyers and meetings with judges to encourage seetlement.
What do you think it would take to take on Toyota's lawyers? Now just weight it carefully.....an average lawyer runs $200-300/hour in Los Angeles. Hot shots run $350-400/hour. Just one meeting with your one lawyer in court will run easily $1,000 plus travel. You will need a firm to handle the vast amount of work.....a hotshot firm will bill at astronomical rates becuase they bill senior partner attorneys at $400/hour, associate attorneys at $300/hour, paralegals at about $150/hour, legal secretaries at about $75-100/hour, plus they bill you for postage stamps and envelopes for evey piece of mail! YOu can just imagine how much money it will involve before even getting to trial.
Do you think any good size law firm will put up $100,000-$250,000 of billable hours without a major multi million dollar contigency fee attached? DO you think they would take it if they don't think they have a very good chance to score?
Sulfur smell is not the same as wheeling in some bonehead in a stretcher on a respirator and having this bonehead testify that he smoked 40 years on 3 packs a day and showing the jjry docuemtns from RJ Renyolds or Philip Morris the told tobocco exsecutives to hide the truth form people. It ain't the same as having victims of induistrial waste dumping toxic chemicals in their drinking water and documetns showing they knew abotu it and were hiding it.
People like Toyota and many in the jury pool have Toyotas and many have good expereinces with Toyotas ...do you think they will find sympathey for sulfur smell? What agregious harm have you suffered, they will ask?
So what do you think. When trial time comes, it gets down to a roll of the dice......12 people who were smart enough to get off jury duty deciding your fate with hundreds of thousands of dollars already invested.
Call those big shot law firms like Morrison and Forester, Gibson Dunn and Cruthcer, Latham and Watkins, call those big shot law firms that won multi-millions from tobacco comapnies and see if they are willing to roll their money on it.
Just some cold water before we start yelling sue, sue, sue....
chunderboy
New member
Couldn't we just call Jacoby and Meyers. I hear those guys are efing animals
CVsGX470
New member
EDGE said:I've noticed many cars have the sulfer stink, the rear window on the 4Runner makes it easier for us to smell but probably all cars have it today, just do a search and Toyota, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, Subaru, Chevy and all the others come up
I agree...and if you read correctly, Toyota does not recommend driving with the rear window down. They would be able to say that you are not using the equipment correctly. Don't get me wrong, I hate the smell, but I don't think you will get anywhere with your argument.
CV
Stop wasting your time. I hate useless litigation like this when people don't even understand why things are what they are. It's like an idiot driver suing toyota for driving too fast in bad conditions and driving off a cliff.
Consider this...
What makes it stink? It's due to the composition of gas in the US. It is the very nature of what this combusted gas smells like.
Solution?
No rear spoiler option, and no roll down rear window to allow the smell to come back. More restrictive and more cats that scrub the exhaust more thoroughly. No use of full throttle because that causes the use of too rich a fuel mixture which doesn't burn off cleanly.
Now by further pushing this issue, you are infringing on my right to enjoy the great car and great features that this truck is. Hell, you might as well sue Toyota for the bumpy ride off road because it "shouldn't be bumpy".
Understand that there is no real solution to this...it is just compromises in the end.
Consider this...
What makes it stink? It's due to the composition of gas in the US. It is the very nature of what this combusted gas smells like.
Solution?
No rear spoiler option, and no roll down rear window to allow the smell to come back. More restrictive and more cats that scrub the exhaust more thoroughly. No use of full throttle because that causes the use of too rich a fuel mixture which doesn't burn off cleanly.
Now by further pushing this issue, you are infringing on my right to enjoy the great car and great features that this truck is. Hell, you might as well sue Toyota for the bumpy ride off road because it "shouldn't be bumpy".
Understand that there is no real solution to this...it is just compromises in the end.
Boaz
New member
How about everyone on this board who is tired of the sulphur smell do this...
Get a list of names together, contact borla and get a monster group buy on cat backs. Since turning the exhaust out to the side seems to ALEAST help the problem. What if we got 25-30 buyers? I bet that would drop the price to a very reasonable amount.
Who's in?
I am! POst up if you want to join the list!
Here is the official list
1. Boaz
Get a list of names together, contact borla and get a monster group buy on cat backs. Since turning the exhaust out to the side seems to ALEAST help the problem. What if we got 25-30 buyers? I bet that would drop the price to a very reasonable amount.
Who's in?
I am! POst up if you want to join the list!
Here is the official list
1. Boaz
Htown4runner
New member
1. Boaz
2. Htown4Runner
2. Htown4Runner
I was at the dealer watching a service writer deal with another 4Runner owner. They were at the back of the vehicle with the engine running. The sulphur smell was strong enough to knock a buzzard of a $%&^ wagon and the service writer was telling him he couln't smell anything. Two other people were complaining to another service writer to get the owner and the other service writer to turn off the engine because of the smell. I tried to speak to the 4Runner owner, but he was angry and too busy telling the service writer to do something highly improbable and potentially uncomfortible with the whole dealership, and left in a big hurry.
My point here is that this dealership, and I think others, are in the business of cash flow and not customer service and problem solving. Your best shot at solving a service/warranty problem is documentation and persistance. You do your end on getting service done, keep a log book and receipts, document every visit and converstion, every person, every phone number in the log book and keep after it. And keep after it.
I went through a problem with a rattling noise in the sun roof. It was repaired under a TSB with a kit, already prepared by Toyota for this problem (in other words, everyone knew about the problem). When I first cam it they said they knew nothing about the problem and my situation was unique. When I gave them a copy of the TSB their memory improved. After having it fixed, it still rattled, but it was better. Now it only rattled with you ran over the dots on the freeway. The service writer, after riding with me to hear the problem said that they could not be expected to fix a problem when I had to abuse the sunroof to make the rattle. My response was a quote from Daffy Duck (under my breath), "..of course, you know, this means war!!!'. In the end I got my sunroof fixed again and now it's ok. The new rattle was a screwdriver left there by a mechanic (oops, I mean parts changer).
In the end I think the response from the dealership was that they are upset when they have to deal with customers that have some education and knowledge and interupt their cash flow. I do not think our friend with the smelly exhaust is going to be back for his next service.
Instead of suing Toyota take the money and buy a couple of houses. Then get you log book going and go after it. Fight your battles when you choose and where you choose with the tools you can get your hands on....and read 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu. :bash:
My point here is that this dealership, and I think others, are in the business of cash flow and not customer service and problem solving. Your best shot at solving a service/warranty problem is documentation and persistance. You do your end on getting service done, keep a log book and receipts, document every visit and converstion, every person, every phone number in the log book and keep after it. And keep after it.
I went through a problem with a rattling noise in the sun roof. It was repaired under a TSB with a kit, already prepared by Toyota for this problem (in other words, everyone knew about the problem). When I first cam it they said they knew nothing about the problem and my situation was unique. When I gave them a copy of the TSB their memory improved. After having it fixed, it still rattled, but it was better. Now it only rattled with you ran over the dots on the freeway. The service writer, after riding with me to hear the problem said that they could not be expected to fix a problem when I had to abuse the sunroof to make the rattle. My response was a quote from Daffy Duck (under my breath), "..of course, you know, this means war!!!'. In the end I got my sunroof fixed again and now it's ok. The new rattle was a screwdriver left there by a mechanic (oops, I mean parts changer).
In the end I think the response from the dealership was that they are upset when they have to deal with customers that have some education and knowledge and interupt their cash flow. I do not think our friend with the smelly exhaust is going to be back for his next service.
Instead of suing Toyota take the money and buy a couple of houses. Then get you log book going and go after it. Fight your battles when you choose and where you choose with the tools you can get your hands on....and read 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu. :bash:
I was at the dealer watching a service writer deal with another 4Runner owner. They were at the back of the vehicle with the engine running. The sulphur smell was strong enough to knock a buzzard of a $%&^ wagon and the service writer was telling him he couln't smell anything. Two other people were complaining to another service writer to get the owner and the other service writer to turn off the engine because of the smell. I tried to speak to the 4Runner owner, but he was angry and too busy telling the service writer to do something highly improbable and potentially uncomfortible with the whole dealership, and left in a big hurry.
My point here is that this dealership, and I think others, are in the business of cash flow and not customer service and problem solving. Your best shot at solving a service/warranty problem is documentation and persistance. You do your end on getting service done, keep a log book and receipts, document every visit and converstion, every person, every phone number in the log book and keep after it. And keep after it.
I went through a problem with a rattling noise in the sun roof. It was repaired under a TSB with a kit, already prepared by Toyota for this problem (in other words, everyone knew about the problem). When I first cam it they said they knew nothing about the problem and my situation was unique. When I gave them a copy of the TSB their memory improved. After having it fixed, it still rattled, but it was better. Now it only rattled with you ran over the dots on the freeway. The service writer, after riding with me to hear the problem said that they could not be expected to fix a problem when I had to abuse the sunroof to make the rattle. My response was a quote from Daffy Duck (under my breath), "..of course, you know, this means war!!!'. In the end I got my sunroof fixed again and now it's ok. The new rattle was a screwdriver left there by a mechanic (oops, I mean parts changer).
In the end I think the response from the dealership was that they are upset when they have to deal with customers that have some education and knowledge and interupt their cash flow. I do not think our friend with the smelly exhaust is going to be back for his next service.
Instead of suing Toyota take the money and buy a couple of houses. Then get you log book going and go after it. Fight your battles when you choose and where you choose with the tools you can get your hands on....and read 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu. :bash:
My point here is that this dealership, and I think others, are in the business of cash flow and not customer service and problem solving. Your best shot at solving a service/warranty problem is documentation and persistance. You do your end on getting service done, keep a log book and receipts, document every visit and converstion, every person, every phone number in the log book and keep after it. And keep after it.
I went through a problem with a rattling noise in the sun roof. It was repaired under a TSB with a kit, already prepared by Toyota for this problem (in other words, everyone knew about the problem). When I first cam it they said they knew nothing about the problem and my situation was unique. When I gave them a copy of the TSB their memory improved. After having it fixed, it still rattled, but it was better. Now it only rattled with you ran over the dots on the freeway. The service writer, after riding with me to hear the problem said that they could not be expected to fix a problem when I had to abuse the sunroof to make the rattle. My response was a quote from Daffy Duck (under my breath), "..of course, you know, this means war!!!'. In the end I got my sunroof fixed again and now it's ok. The new rattle was a screwdriver left there by a mechanic (oops, I mean parts changer).
In the end I think the response from the dealership was that they are upset when they have to deal with customers that have some education and knowledge and interupt their cash flow. I do not think our friend with the smelly exhaust is going to be back for his next service.
Instead of suing Toyota take the money and buy a couple of houses. Then get you log book going and go after it. Fight your battles when you choose and where you choose with the tools you can get your hands on....and read 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu. :bash:
Koz
New member
TeCKis300 said:
Lets see, comparing a manufacture that makes a vehicle that emits horrendous fumes that are overwhelming and possibly dangerous to someone who drives to fast and drives off a cliff. But other people don't even understand why things are what they are. :jester:
Consider this...
The gas is the problem; you
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GalacticRunner
New member
I don't see the need for litigation. I guess it just depends on your dealer. Mine did the service for the sulfur smell, the 2003 TSB even though my 2004 did not fall in the VIN pool. Stated its a volutary thing with Toyota agreeing to fix problem if customer complains and dealer observes it.
Since my catalitic converters were replaced and the ECU re-programmed my runner is a little peppier and fuel mileage is up from 17 to 19 mpg (this is actual math, not the truck computer) it has been only 2 tanks though so far.
As for the smell, since my service it is totally gone. Try a different dealer, maybe you'll get one with common sense who will do the right thing.
Pete
Since my catalitic converters were replaced and the ECU re-programmed my runner is a little peppier and fuel mileage is up from 17 to 19 mpg (this is actual math, not the truck computer) it has been only 2 tanks though so far.
As for the smell, since my service it is totally gone. Try a different dealer, maybe you'll get one with common sense who will do the right thing.
Pete
