KDSS Balancing - Correcting lean after lift

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No but it's completely logical as it's a simple system. The cruiser guys have been dealing with kdss lean for way longer than 5th gen guys...especially since cruiser guys usually mod more than Runner guys.

I'll be lifting mine next weekend so if I end up with lean I'm trying it out.:thumb3:
 
I don't have the lean... yet, but do have a question about kdss. The article makes a point to state that kdss is strictly mechanical/hydraulic and not controlled by sensors. This is consistent with other articles I've read but contradicts others on this board that the kdss engages above 12 mph.

I've noticed at times in cornering and I hit a pothole, it feels like the kdss disengages and get some body roll. Again, this would be consistent with mechanical. I guess my question is, which is it? More just for curiosity.


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wolfpack_runner said:
I don't have the lean... yet, but do have a question about kdss. The article makes a point to state that kdss is strictly mechanical/hydraulic and not controlled by sensors. This is consistent with other articles I've read but contradicts others on this board that the kdss engages above 12 mph.

I've noticed at times in cornering and I hit a pothole, it feels like the kdss disengages and get some body roll. Again, this would be consistent with mechanical. I guess my question is, which is it? More just for curiosity.


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Click to expand...


Well yes and no. I'm not an expert on it but it is a passive system but is tied into some sensors that gives the ecu feedback. The ecu will control it going active (adding pressure) after 12 mph.

But it is either on or off...think of a simple hydraulic valve and there you have it.
 
been looking for this KDSS lean y'all speak of...maybe I'm just not noticing it, or I just don't care...
 
There is a procedure documented in the 5th gen repair manual for this...

It's similar. It will resolve the lean (temporarily from my experience).

Warning if you do it... The instructions are very misleading. They say something about not backing out the bolts more than 10-12mm, But they mean measuring from the case surface to the outer edge of the bolt, not what any logical human would interpret the statement to back out 10-12mm to mean. So most people who read the procedure and don't get a warning from somone else....end up backing it out too far and get air in the system...ask me how I know this LOL. Really poorly written instructions and diagram, but very simple procedure once you know that catch and read the instructions very carefully.. which is to really only back out ~5mm (can't remember how thick the nut is...)

Attached is the diagram...
 

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wfo9 said:
There is a procedure documented in the 5th gen repair manual for this...

It's similar. It will resolve the lean (temporarily from my experience).

Warning if you do it... The instructions are very misleading. They say something about not backing out the bolts more than 10-12mm, But they mean measuring from the case surface to the outer edge of the bolt, not what any logical human would interpret the statement to back out 10-12mm to mean. So most people who read the procedure and don't get a warning from somone else....end up backing it out too far and get air in the system...ask me how I know this LOL. Really poorly written instructions and diagram, but very simple procedure once you know that catch and read the instructions very carefully.. which is to really only back out ~5mm (can't remember how thick the nut is...)

Attached is the diagram...
Click to expand...

In my experience it is temporary as well. That bolt really only needs to be turned like 1.25 turns in my experience.. however I'm also extremely risk averse.
 
The only way to really balance it would for someone to manufacture extended passenger side links for the front and rear or make lift blocks for them. Lower the pivot point. The trouble is there are many different lifts and each vehicle seems to behave differently even with the same lift.

kddslift1.jpg
 
TK-422 said:
The only way to really balance it would for someone to manufacture extended passenger side links for the front and rear or make lift blocks for them. Lower the pivot point. The trouble is there are many different lifts and each vehicle seems to behave differently even with the same lift.

kddslift1.jpg
Click to expand...

Yep, I tested this by disconnecting my rear static KDSS link. Let it settle and measured in the rear. Voila, it leveled out. As soon as I reconnected the link, it was back to the passenger side lean.
 
OR we could all accept the fact that KDSS leans. Always has, and always will. How about we move on to a bigger problem......ooh wait, we all bought a Toyota. Scratch that, slight differences in the way my vehicle sits will have to do. I heard the guys on the Jeep forums are always looking for problem solvers.....
 
CoolMax said:
been looking for this KDSS lean y'all speak of...maybe I'm just not noticing it, or I just don't care...
Click to expand...

I never noticed the lean either…. But all those threads (about KDSS "lean") finally pushed me to go measure the stance of my truck, so for whatever it is worth: on the front: left side is ¼ of the inch higher; rear is absolutely leveled\ even;

Note: the truck (stock 2013 TE w\KDSS and 42k on the odometer) is parked in the garage (I would assume that is as close as I can get for the surface to be leveled), gas tank is about 80% full and the cargo area has about 40 Lbs. of hunting gears\tools spread evenly from side-to-side load point of view.

Based on above measurements, no wonder I never noticed the “lean”…

I would also venture to say that with me in the truck (in the driver seat) it would lose ¼ of the inch high advantage on its front left side.

I just do not see how much more perfect the stance (side to side) of that vehicle can be..?
 
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progress4m said:
I never noticed the lean either…. But all those threads (about KDSS "lean") finally pushed me to go measure the stance of my truck, so for whatever it is worth: on the front: left side is ¼ of the inch higher; rear is absolutely leveled\ even;

Note: the truck (stock 2013 TE w\KDSS and 42k on the odometer) is parked in the garage (I would assume that is as close as I can get for the surface to be leveled), gas tank is about 80% full and the cargo area has about 40 Lbs. of hunting gears\tools spread evenly from side-to-side load point of view.

Based on above measurements, no wonder I never noticed the “lean”…

I would also venture to say that with me in the truck (in the driver seat) it would lose ¼ of the inch high advantage on its front left side.

I just do not see how much more perfect the stance (side to side) of that vehicle can be..?
Click to expand...

Stock... they don't lean much. It gets exaggerated with a lift.. but can be minimized if you have coil overs...

All suspensions lean without adjustment, but this lean is caused by the sway bars, which is not the typical source of a lean. It's just a simple geometry problem... The links are not long enough for a lift... simple as that.

It still works....

People talk about it over and over... because new people come on.. and it's also a unique problem with many different potential solutions. Similar to the KDSS clunk... There is still mystery behind it all... with each person having a different experience. Most is perception of individuals.
 
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I noticed my '14 TE KDSS has a visible lean so tonight I measured.

Gas tank was filled this afternoon, then driven 40 miles before getting home. Zero cargo inside truck.

I used a plumb bob to mark center of the wheel hub to the fender on each side.

Truck is parked in my under-house garage so a level concrete house foundation.

100% stock, very new tires at exact same psi. 36,000mi on odometer.

Driver Rear - 37 1/8"
Pass. Rear - 36 1/4"


I've read here that 7/8" is Toyota's max deviation, but haven't seen anything official. It seems odd for a stock truck to be at max lean.

Thoughts? Should I have the dealer address it?
 
Throwback said:
I noticed my '14 TE KDSS has a visible lean so tonight I measured.

Gas tank was filled this afternoon, then driven 40 miles before getting home. Zero cargo inside truck.

I used a plumb bob to mark center of the wheel hub to the fender on each side.

Truck is parked in my under-house garage so a level concrete house foundation.

100% stock, very new tires at exact same psi. 36,000mi on odometer.

Driver Rear - 37 1/8"
Pass. Rear - 36 1/4"


I've read here that 7/8" is Toyota's max deviation, but haven't seen anything official. It seems odd for a stock truck to be at max lean.

Thoughts? Should I have the dealer address it?
Click to expand...

Considering you'll probably have to pay for it, I'd say no. The KDSS calibration is quick, but will likely only result in a temporary fix, if any. If you ever plan on lifting, definitely don't bother with it now.
 
Yeah my 2013 TE was pretty level pre-lift... now post-lift I got the passenger lean....oh well


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I’m wondering if the suggested driver front rim packer makes it seem like it’s leaning but in fact just higher than passenger side and I would’ve been fine not installing suggested driver 10mm trim.


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