KDSS delete
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shufly09
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2006 V8 4Runner SAC - RockSolidToys Toyota Solid Axle Swap & 4X4 Forum Facebook
^^^That is the ultimate plan for my SAS, for those that are curious.
^^^That is the ultimate plan for my SAS, for those that are curious.
I think I'd try leaving the electronics but capping the hydraulic lines. Perhaps just cap everything at the main unit under the shield by the drivers left foot mounted to the frame. Actually that would probably light up the system unless you put pressure back in the unit. I think worst case if you pull all of the KDSS you'll get a yellow light on the dash. Someone on here recently put in a KDSS override switch for washboard roads, and you might get some ideas by tracking down that thread.
wfo9
New member
I don't think it goes into limp mode. It does however turn a light on the dash and you really can't get rid of it. You will need to take the cluster apart and cover it up.
As far as the SAS goes... I thought about it for quite some time.
Decided to hold off for now and do LT front end instead. I'll be able to sell that stuff when I'm tired of it.. And let someone else prove SAS is possible with the 150 platform electronics. I don't think it has ever been done (but I could be wrong)
The mechanical parts of a SAS conversion don't concern me at all. It's the electronics that will potentially screw your world. Yaw sensor. anti roll... just to name a few. The speed sensors should be just like the 4th gen, but I worry about the steering and all the related sensors.
As far as the SAS goes... I thought about it for quite some time.
Decided to hold off for now and do LT front end instead. I'll be able to sell that stuff when I'm tired of it.. And let someone else prove SAS is possible with the 150 platform electronics. I don't think it has ever been done (but I could be wrong)
The mechanical parts of a SAS conversion don't concern me at all. It's the electronics that will potentially screw your world. Yaw sensor. anti roll... just to name a few. The speed sensors should be just like the 4th gen, but I worry about the steering and all the related sensors.
Of course I would recommend starting with a vehicle without KDSS , but that's only part of your problem there is currently no electronics to do a SAS conversion, if you unhook the ABS wires your check engine light and all ABS warning lights will be on your dash. I've called Dyna trac , Currie and all pro off-road nobody has an answer for the electronics. I'm interested in doing an SAS conversion on my 4runner and ordered it without KDSS . building and hanging the axle is easy , The electronics are the big hold up right now you need a straight axle on the front that will except the Toyotas special ABS wiring tone ring. If you find an answer I will do a sas also. None of the sas fj's that u see have working electronics , and I live in California and the check engine light on makes it smog illegal. I've been looking into this for years
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Jetboy
New member
I've kicked around the idea quite a bit.
This would be my formula (with a big budget). YMMV.
I'd swap in a Tacoma rear axle with an 8.7 diff or possibly build a new custom rear with a centered LC 9.5 diff. and retain the 4runner outers - so basically just cut the diff out and put a bigger one in. Probably jump to 5.29 gears. - You're going to run big tires right?
Front I'd probably use a Toy 8", but possibly a 9.5 as well. It's a fairly heavy beast. I've struggled to find them again, but someone is making a outer knuckle that accepts the full unit bearing/abs/brake assembly from the stock IFS. If not I'd consider custom knuckles. You could possibly even keep the OEM front outer birfields - they're strong AND in a solid axle configuration they're a lot stronger.
That should solve all the speed/abs issues.
Steering could be a little tricky, as I'm not an expert on what sensors are located where. I'd start by looking at the 7x series Land Cruiser to see if the parts are compatible because it's the most likely place to find solid axle steering setup that would speak the same language. It may even be the case that a 7x front axle as a complete unit would be a possible swap.
As for KDSS - I'd try to keep it if it were me. I'd modify it for long travel using a lever arm mechanism like the LC200 or even swap in LC200 parts. It's a fine system that IMO should be retained if you can. There's lots of ways to re-mount the pistons to use them for the original purpose in a different configuration. My guess is that there is just a pressure sensor you'd need to spoof to get rid of the light on the dash.
This would be my formula (with a big budget). YMMV.
I'd swap in a Tacoma rear axle with an 8.7 diff or possibly build a new custom rear with a centered LC 9.5 diff. and retain the 4runner outers - so basically just cut the diff out and put a bigger one in. Probably jump to 5.29 gears. - You're going to run big tires right?
Front I'd probably use a Toy 8", but possibly a 9.5 as well. It's a fairly heavy beast. I've struggled to find them again, but someone is making a outer knuckle that accepts the full unit bearing/abs/brake assembly from the stock IFS. If not I'd consider custom knuckles. You could possibly even keep the OEM front outer birfields - they're strong AND in a solid axle configuration they're a lot stronger.
That should solve all the speed/abs issues.
Steering could be a little tricky, as I'm not an expert on what sensors are located where. I'd start by looking at the 7x series Land Cruiser to see if the parts are compatible because it's the most likely place to find solid axle steering setup that would speak the same language. It may even be the case that a 7x front axle as a complete unit would be a possible swap.
As for KDSS - I'd try to keep it if it were me. I'd modify it for long travel using a lever arm mechanism like the LC200 or even swap in LC200 parts. It's a fine system that IMO should be retained if you can. There's lots of ways to re-mount the pistons to use them for the original purpose in a different configuration. My guess is that there is just a pressure sensor you'd need to spoof to get rid of the light on the dash.
I can't find any company like u describe please post a link that will allow me to make electronics work and I'll be the first to guinea pig it. Hanging the axle no problem , rear axle no problem , steering is no problem, all I need is someway to make electronics work.
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Jetboy
New member
IIRC it was Front Range Off Road who was doing it, but I can't find any info on it. It may be worth a call to them.
Thanks, I just sent them a detailed email , I'll update when I get a reposnse. It's weird everybody allways says it can be done easy or they know somebody who has done it but it never works out to be true. I've posted on Tacoma forms,FJ cruiser fourms and contacted every axle manufacturer and zero . I hope your right .
Great idea but won't work I tried that , the modern Toyota abs reads forward and backward different. it's some type of proprietary square wave. It has to do with that hill assist and it sense rolling backwards and crawl control and all the electronics on the modern Toyota ABS. I've had people tell me to just put electrical tape over the lights,use the rear sensor wires and all kinds of crazy ways but no real answer. I contacted a company in Australia that can supply me that axle and it's a no go.
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op2: subscribed ... I'm interested but more down the road
marshal
New member
i don't know why this is such as big deal to people, an ABS sensor is just a tone ring. in theory as long as you don't mismatch the number of teeth the tone rings have, you should be able to lie to the computer straight up.
you should be able to swap in axles that have 4 individual tone rings no matter the count, then reconfigure the computer at that point to adjust the speedometer and the ABS requirements.
all that said though, I'm sure there is someone on this planet that would happily machine new tone rings for you, as they're pretty simple.
Currie makes new Rockjock 60 and F9 axle housings for FJ Cruisers, so they have that portion of the Tone ring system taken care of, all you need is to have it adapted to a front axle.
you should be able to swap in axles that have 4 individual tone rings no matter the count, then reconfigure the computer at that point to adjust the speedometer and the ABS requirements.
all that said though, I'm sure there is someone on this planet that would happily machine new tone rings for you, as they're pretty simple.
Currie makes new Rockjock 60 and F9 axle housings for FJ Cruisers, so they have that portion of the Tone ring system taken care of, all you need is to have it adapted to a front axle.
borfoo3
New member
Your easiest KDSS delete option is whats commonly referred to as a "trade-in for SR5"
STX4Runner
New member
Seriously. If you're going to get this far into it, just get an SR5 and put in air lockers. You're already going to be swapping in new gears and axles.
1engineer
Moderator
Lol I like reading these posts that use words like "should" "might" "I think" "probably" because, truth be known, nobody has done a SAS because of the plethora of electronics involved. Sure, most here can make one or two functions work again but when it comes to tying them all together that is the problem. The mechanics of doing this are doable. The electronics are not.
I daresay it would be cheaper and easier to buy a beater 1978 Chevy blazer, remove everything but frame and axle, buy a new GM V8 crate motor, mod the frame for length and width and body mounts and put your 5th gen 4Runner body on it. Then swap out gauges and you are set.
I daresay it would be cheaper and easier to buy a beater 1978 Chevy blazer, remove everything but frame and axle, buy a new GM V8 crate motor, mod the frame for length and width and body mounts and put your 5th gen 4Runner body on it. Then swap out gauges and you are set.
shufly09
New member
I've had my rig in it's current state (more or less) for the past 2 years. It's been very capable, but I want something that can handle more. In hindsight, yes, I should have just gone with an SR5, but such is life.
Here is what I have now...
I've recently had it re-geared to 4.56, had some lights thrown on, and currently redoing the entire soundsystem (pics to follow). I should probably update my build thread....:behindsofa:
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It's not as easy as you think there is no electronics available I called Currie , there is no teeth there is no tone ring. If you have somebody that will do the electronics please post a link I've called every company that you listed and nobody ! again nobody has electronics for our Toyota. Like I said everybody says it's easy everybody said they know somebody but I end up with zero results please post a link or contact them yourself and you will find that nobody makes anything for a straight axle Toyota that will work. Also just FYI The last I spoke with currie that Toyota rear axle that you spoke of has been discontinued.
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ZRunnerTRDpro
New member
Jetboy
New member
Hmm... I suppose what we'd need to do if we want to either replicate or spoof the signal is put an ocillilscope on the signal and figure out how it determines front/rear motion. I happen to have GM unit bearing new on my work bench for a project I never used it on. I don't know if it will have a similar bi-directional signal, but I can take a look.
I'm frustrated that I can't find the info on the knuckle that accepts a Toyota outer spindle from the new 4runners. That, IMO is the obvious answer to this problem. Spacing is the next question and without all the parts, I'm not sure I could draw anything useable. I have a spare set of minitruck knuckles, but not a set of newer stuff disassembled. It's possible that the spacing would allow an adapter plate to bolt onto the minitruck knuckle and accept the modern unit bearing rather than a total replacement knuckle. I'm not entirely convinced that a minitruck axle would be a great choice though. It's pretty small for this application. I'd prefer an FJ80 or larger.
On the FJ80, I suppose it would be reasonable to measure the tone ring and compare to the one on the 4runner. They might be close enough in size that you could swap them. IN that case the 4runner ABS sensor could be used in the FJ80 axle with the 4runner tone ring and give the correct signal.
I'm frustrated that I can't find the info on the knuckle that accepts a Toyota outer spindle from the new 4runners. That, IMO is the obvious answer to this problem. Spacing is the next question and without all the parts, I'm not sure I could draw anything useable. I have a spare set of minitruck knuckles, but not a set of newer stuff disassembled. It's possible that the spacing would allow an adapter plate to bolt onto the minitruck knuckle and accept the modern unit bearing rather than a total replacement knuckle. I'm not entirely convinced that a minitruck axle would be a great choice though. It's pretty small for this application. I'd prefer an FJ80 or larger.
On the FJ80, I suppose it would be reasonable to measure the tone ring and compare to the one on the 4runner. They might be close enough in size that you could swap them. IN that case the 4runner ABS sensor could be used in the FJ80 axle with the 4runner tone ring and give the correct signal.