mcox522
New member
Just wanted to update that I haven't had any leaks since this trip. Sadly I haven't had a trip since with the roof to tent, but plenty of off-road adventures and all is good.
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KDSS Long term reliability?
- Thread starter Vizguy
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MTN4RNR
New member
In general, you won't gain any additional travel with KDSS. What it does do is allow for the same amount of flex and travel as a non-KDSS equipped vehicle, but with a sway bar that is much stiffer. The benefit to this is that you get comparable performance off-road, and greatly improved characteristics on-road (flat cornering, less lean, etc). All of the other suspension components are basically the same, meaning that overall suspension travel isn't different model to model.
^this is incorrect, by adding force on opposite corners you will effectively have more travel, that's why it has a higher RTI score on articulation ramps.
the technical limits of travel are the sames, if you could magically hold the vehicle level and steady like a giant hand holding a toy car rolling it over obstacles it would be the same, but KDSS gives you more real world articulation
the technical limits of travel are the sames, if you could magically hold the vehicle level and steady like a giant hand holding a toy car rolling it over obstacles it would be the same, but KDSS gives you more real world articulation
wfo9
New member
A bit more complicated than that, but generally true. KDSS limits articulated travel even more than std sways over 12mph. Below 12mph it will allow for more articulated travel than a stock swaybar setup, but obviously trucks without swaybars or swaybar disconnects have more articulated travel than KDSS.
Swaybars don't really limit travel in a very static way (like a shock or control arm would). They dynamically impact spring rates and thus the reason it can feel pretty wonky at speed off-road with a stiff sway-bar. The actual travel numbers are technically the same, but it may take more force to get one at those numbers vs the other.
Been stated a million times, but KDSS has pros and cons. Mostly pros, but there are use cases that it is not the best for.
The baja argument is pretty crazy IMHO. It is simply not intended for that.. it was put on a truck to test reliability and nobody in their right mind would run KDSS (as implemented on the 5th gen) on a purpose built baja truck.
If you like KDSS... fantastic, if you don't fantastic. No right answer, just preferences based on primary use case.
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I traded in for TRD Pro, and this is not the point, this is the answer to the question that started this thread...
Jetboy
New member
You've experienced a low probability event. Far lower than TRD Pro shock leaks for example. And it would seem that your usage profile is very mild compared to what many of us do without issue. Do you use your 4Runner for anything other than commuting?
Do you have any pictures of your KDSS leak? How do you know it was leaking? Where was it leaking?
jrandom
New member
Lol I wouldn’t say not having/using something is the answer to reliability. That really makes no sense whatsoever.
I agree with [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] there have been a lot of people posting with “pro” shock issues.
I am curious to know what happen to yours as well. I have hammered my suspension pretty hard and I have an albeit mild lift. I am certainly thankful it is holding up just like many of the other “doodads” in this truck.
alphabeast
New member
I am also very curious about the details of this leaking KDSS cylinder. There has been many vague references to failures but very few confirmed with meaningful information. Since any KDSS related repairs are expensive, it would be good to have as much information as possible ahead of time (for all of us "special" KDSS kids).
I did know someone who had his KDSS fail but it had nothing to do with leaking cylinders. The wiring going to the control unit broke/rotted out. Since no dealers wanted to touch it they either refused to work on it or quoted him some astonomical numbers ($6000 +). He ended up selling the truck without doing the repairs.
Unfortunately I don’t have any pictures, the bottom part of the front cylinder was wet, I found similar pictures when I was searching the web. And yes the vehicle was used as commuter at the time and in the process of getting ready for off road use in the near future. The lift was done at the time 6112/5160, and really, I didn’t want to fight dealer to get it fix under warranty. Also I had a very good chance to grab Pro, and I took it, someone ordered and was not approved for financing.
Agreed. I was wondering why the heck they chose KDSS which limited their travel a bit more in the stock class. Makes sense if they wanted to test the system though.
MTN4RNR
New member
Yep, I agree. There is a grey area somewhere in the middle. Looking back my explanation was a bit too one sided. I was just trying to point out more what you are resonating that KDSS adds more effective flex than a non-KDSS equipped vehicle (sway bars installed). Overall, what I was trying to convey was that the limits of the flex, compression and droop between vehicles equipped and non-equipped is the same because the rest of the hardware is the same (like you mentioned). However there is no technical data that I could find showing exactly what that gap is. 5" of extra travel seems extreme, but I could very well be wrong. You mentioned RTI scores, do you have data for KDSS versus non-KDSS. I am more curious what the difference might be more than anything.
Yeah.... That's kinda the point. 4Runers can be boats on the road so extra thick sway bars would greatly help them on road where they are 75% of the time. I MUCH prefer the way my '16 feels with KDDS than any other 4Runner I've owned. When you're off road, the KDDS allows for easier articulation of the axles which is what you want ONLY off road. The nice thing is that it also allows you to put a lift on the vehicle and keep the system. Seems like a pretty good idea to me. Jeep has an electronic sway disconnect for the same reasons.
puckitpuck
New member
I like having KDSS, but its a major pain if you work on the suspension yourself.
this has been posted here a bunch of times:
Four Wheeler: 2004 Four Wheeler of the Year
an almost 100 point difference on an RTI ramp is significant
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wfo9
New member
FYI, Jeep system 100% different. Not even similar.
Really can't compare anything about a jeep to a 5th gen. They are a worlds apart in many aspects and simply way more purpose built for technical off-road terrain.
KDSS does not disconnect and has nothing to do with on/off road really. Just speed is the trigger. If you are going below 12mph the valves open up and things loosenup.
Also, KDSS seems a bit better on side hills as the cross width flow evens out on a side hill to some extent.
hmm interesting. I thought kdss only allowed extra droop of maybe an inch when released. Nice that it translates to a big difference on the ramp!
wfo9
New member
I'm not 100% sure on this and it is a bit hard to explain. But from observation it does seem to work to some extent (how much is very difficult to measure)
It has to do with the positioning of the pistons on opposite sides front to rear (cross width). It seems to somewhat encourage opposing articulation front to rear, but discourages same side as the fluid flows and attempts to balance pressure. Again, can't say for sure as there is some mystery in the flow and the movements. But the side closer to the piston clearly has a higher motion ratio. There is quite a bit over overall binding with KDSS as implemented on the 5th gen, so some of it could be that too. Whatever the case, it does pretty well on side hills compared to no sway.
Jetboy
New member
KDSS sway bars force opposite corner articulation. So they prevent body roll on a side hill in the same way they prevent body roll in a corner on a highway. Additionally the same system also stabilizes the body between the axles when they flex, so on an off camber hill with flex, the body will have less lean toward the downhill side.
