KDSS on road behavior

[el_kab0ng]

Here's how it works and you can decide for yourself:
Toyota dealers cannot order from Toyota proper. This is ANY Toyota vehicle from the Yaris to the Land Cruiser.

The dealers order from one of 12 Distributors based on geographic location. The dealers CAN NOT order from any distributor, just the one that services their location.

The distributor can only order specific options from Toyota. For example my local dealer cannot order a 2WD 4Runner from their distributor. Some regions cannot order KDSS equipped 4Runners. Call it dumb or stupid but that is the way it is.

Why is it the way it is? How many 4WD 4Runners are going to be sold in South Florida or 2WD in Minnesota?

Dealers can trade each other though and get what they want.

Lastly the distributor offers options or add ons that are region specific. You can't get a Southeast option package in New York.

I'm not sure I agree here. When I ordered my T4RTE w/KDSS from the dealer (after a ton of factual research and decision making as to what works for ME rather than anyone else here), they ordered it direct from Japan since _I_ chose not to get one out of State or from another dealer. I had my last car for 12 years before I finally stepped into a T4R, so I wanted it exactly as I specified since I would most likely have this thing much longer than my previous ride.

It took 91 days and change to get it produced and delivered, but it was exactly what I was wanting - nothing more, nothing less. If I'm reading your comments correctly, you're telling me I shouldn't have been able to do this?

In any event, to the OP, who cares what anyone else here thinks or suggests. If it's something you feel you want and it will make you happy, get it. If you don't want to pay the additional expense or don't feel it's worth the enhancements, then don't. I'd keep your research fact based rather than opinionated and then decide based on that.

Just my .02.

 

[arjay]

weird handling issue

This is my first post. Sorry to tag onto an old thread but I'm not allowed to start new threads yet.

I have a 2012 Trail with KDSS. I've had a weird "thing" happen probably 5-6 times now, always under the same conditions. Vehicle heavily loaded (4 humans + a bunch of crap), curvy mountain roads, coming into a left hand curve a little hot. Under these conditions the front right wheel will momentarily let go. It almost feels like the wheel folds over a little and skids, and there's a bit of a thunk feeling to it. It has never happened in a right hand curve and never with just me in the vehicle. It's very disconcerting when it happens and under the wrong conditions could probably be very dangerous. I don't think it's a tire issue because it doesn't feel like that. The folding/diving behavior makes me suspect KDSS. Anyone else experienced anything like this?

Thanks.

 

[mcarey86]

Sounds to me like you're just driving too fast.

 

[Aurora85]

update since this thread keeps popping up. Bought my KDSS TE in August and couldn't be happier. Drove both and for me having the KDSS was a must. Luckily I was able to buy it locally in the southern region. I hope KDSS holds up ok over the years. That's the only thing I think about. Otherwise it drives and handles great for the size.

For those on the fence..go for it if you can find one. Thanks again for all the great info offered.

 

[WFO_Racer]

I have a 2010 KDSS with about 48K miles on it bought new, one of my peeves is even if you deactivate the stupid traction nannies the F'en TC kicks back in.

Yes it's no sports car, but give me a break hitting freeeway sweepers and having traction control kick back in at grandma speeds is a royal PITA.

 

[b407driver]

There is a good reason it is not on the TRD pro models...

What good reason is that? I can fathom a good reason or two that KDSS is not installed in SR5s, and I can see why it's an option for Trail models. I honestly can't think of one good reason that it's not installed in the TRD Pro. I can think of one or two bad reasons (for us consumers), however.

 

[LandCruiser]

This is my first post. Sorry to tag onto an old thread but I'm not allowed to start new threads yet.

I have a 2012 Trail with KDSS. I've had a weird "thing" happen probably 5-6 times now, always under the same conditions. Vehicle heavily loaded (4 humans + a bunch of crap), curvy mountain roads, coming into a left hand curve a little hot. Under these conditions the front right wheel will momentarily let go. It almost feels like the wheel folds over a little and skids, and there's a bit of a thunk feeling to it. It has never happened in a right hand curve and never with just me in the vehicle. It's very disconcerting when it happens and under the wrong conditions could probably be very dangerous. I don't think it's a tire issue because it doesn't feel like that. The folding/diving behavior makes me suspect KDSS. Anyone else experienced anything like this?

Thanks.

Do you have a lift?

 

[1engineer]

What good reason is that? I can fathom a good reason or two that KDSS is not installed in SR5s, and I can see why it's an option for Trail models. I honestly can't think of one good reason that it's not installed in the TRD Pro. I can think of one or two bad reasons (for us consumers), however.

Simple.
Off road, KDSS will allow for more suspension articulation at speeds below 12mph or so. TRD Pro suspension is designed for higher off road speeds. What makes the TRD Pro suspension good for higher off road speeds? Larger diameter shocks, reservoir shocks, etc. Low speed does not need the cooling benefits.

There's your one good reason!

 

[b407driver]

Simple.
Off road, KDSS will allow for more suspension articulation at speeds below 12mph or so. TRD Pro suspension is designed for higher off road speeds. What makes the TRD Pro suspension good for higher off road speeds? Larger diameter shocks, reservoir shocks, etc. Low speed does not need the cooling benefits.

There's your one good reason!

Huh.

Funny that many people's primary reason for getting KDSS is for higher-speed driving/handling characteristics, where the TRD Pro suspension also is at home.

Seems to me that the TRD Pro is exactly the truck that should have had KDSS as stock (as the prototypes would anecdotally suggest).

 

[wfo9]

What good reason is that? I can fathom a good reason or two that KDSS is not installed in SR5s, and I can see why it's an option for Trail models. I honestly can't think of one good reason that it's not installed in the TRD Pro. I can think of one or two bad reasons (for us consumers), however.

Since you quoted me and asked....

Since you can't fathom a reason... let me give you a few...

KDSS is rough at speed off-road. The KDSS swaybars are very stiff at speed. This is great on the road, not so great offroad at speed with uneven terrain at each wheel. The pro is targeted at that desert pre runner type market. It will simply perform better in those conditions with std sway bars. For trail type use off-road, a stock KDSS truck will perform better.

Additionally, there is the theory that the Toyota platform engineers told the TRD guys that KDSS was not compatible with any lift... This is just theory though. It aligns with the fact that dealers will typically not lift a KDSS truck. But...we all know that they can be lifted without any major issues (besides premature bushing wear and a few minor lean issues).

 

[e60ral]

Huh.

Funny that many people's primary reason for getting KDSS is for higher-speed driving/handling characteristics, where the TRD Pro suspension also is at home.

Seems to me that the TRD Pro is exactly the truck that should have had KDSS as stock (as the prototypes would anecdotally suggest).

KDSS ON ROAD is more stable and confident, it's off road at speed where the thicker sway bars aren't an advantage and something like the Pro suspension will have a big advantage.

(And one person on this forum set up his KDSS to manually disable it at speed, so if he doesn't find any long term issues that is an option)

 

[Jetboy]

What good reason is that? I can fathom a good reason or two that KDSS is not installed in SR5s, and I can see why it's an option for Trail models. I honestly can't think of one good reason that it's not installed in the TRD Pro. I can think of one or two bad reasons (for us consumers), however.

The real reason is simple. Dollars. If a TRD Pro wanted to stay under the cost of a Limited - it had to trade KDSS for shocks. It couldn't have both and not out price a LTD. The LTD pricing is capped by the base model GX460. KDSS WAS included on the original TRD Pro show models but removed for the production models.

It's not an accident that ALL gx460's have KDSS as do all LC200's. Nor is it an accident that Toyota's own BAJA race 4runner with custom suspension has KDSS.

It was left out of the TRD Pro for cost reasons, not performance. If a thicker sway bar were truly harming performance in the desert, you could put a lighter spring rate sway bar in the KDSS system and still retain the low speed offroad benefits. Have you ever seen a trophy truck without a big heavy sway bar?

 

[1engineer]

Huh.

Funny that many people's primary reason for getting KDSS is for higher-speed driving/handling characteristics, where the TRD Pro suspension also is at home.

Seems to me that the TRD Pro is exactly the truck that should have had KDSS as stock (as the prototypes would anecdotally suggest).

Don't confuse the two. KDSS will allow LESS suspension articulation at high speed, like on the highway. This will limit body roll.
At low speed, it will allow MORE suspension articulation, like going off road.

The TRD Pro has larger diameter and reservoir shocks designed for higher speed off roading which keeps the suspension soft to absorb the hits. It does not change when you go fast or slow.

 

[wfo9]

The real reason is simple. Dollars. If a TRD Pro wanted to stay under the cost of a Limited - it had to trade KDSS for shocks. It couldn't have both and not out price a LTD. The LTD pricing is capped by the base model GX460.

It's not an accident that ALL gx460's have KDSS. Nor is it an accident that Toyota's BAJA race 4runner has KDSS.

It was left out of the TRD Pro for cost reasons, not performance.

Oh no, were back into this crazy discussion. It was documented that the Toyota BAJA truck had KDSS purely as a durability test. It was a promotional stunt.... more or less. There is no way anyone with a sane mind would prefer it on a baja style truck. I can find the article that describes the motivation if you want to read it for yourself.

 

[1engineer]

It was left out of the TRD Pro for cost reasons, not performance. If a thicker sway bar were truly harming performance in the desert, you could put a lighter spring rate sway bar in the KDSS system and still retain the low speed offroad benefits.

I think it would have been simple for Toyota (not us) to make KDSS work with the TRD Pro suspension by installing a "sport" mode that would toggle the KDSS off even at higher speeds. This would allow the articulation needed in higher speed off road.

I don't think a lighter sway bar rate would work when you wanted to firm up the ride.

I do think $$$ is one of the main reasons too.

 

[Jetboy]

Oh no, were back into this crazy discussion. It was documented that the Toyota BAJA truck had KDSS purely as a durability test. It was a promotional stunt.... more or less. There is no way anyone with a sane mind would prefer it on a baja style truck. I can find the article that describes the motivation if you want to read it for yourself.

A TRD Pro isn't a baja truck. Either way, have you ever seen a trophy truck without a heavy sway bar? In a perfect world we'd have adjustable length arms to tune the effective spring rates like the real desert racers use. Short of that, KDSS is about as good as it's going to get. It was on all the pre-production models.

I'd love to see the article.

It'd be great to have a closed course and run two side by side to see. I'd bet the KDSS with the same shocks an all stock suspension components outruns a TRD Pro with the lighter sway bars around a short course. I'll bring my KDSS if someone wants to bring a TRD Pro - except I have FOX shocks.

 

[Jetboy]

I think it would have been simple for Toyota (not us) to make KDSS work with the TRD Pro suspension by installing a "sport" mode that would toggle the KDSS off even at higher speeds. This would allow the articulation needed in higher speed off road.

I don't think a lighter sway bar rate would work when you wanted to firm up the ride.

I do think $$$ is one of the main reasons too.

I agree. The LC200 is always working. I think we could just lock the valves open ourselves and have it active all the time.

My point was that with a light sway bar that matches the SR5/TRD Pro - It would be identical in performance at speed or on the road, but still have the advantage of body stabilization and greater articulation on slow stuff. That simple argument logically eliminates any claim that it's not a financial decision to me. KDSS with an SR5 spring rate sway bar would do everything the SR5/TRD Pro sway bar does - AND still have low speed benefits. Eliminating it rather than using a different sway bar was a cost saving choice.

 

[wfo9]

A TRD Pro isn't a baja truck. Either way, have you ever seen a trophy truck without a heavy sway bar? In a perfect world we'd have adjustable length arms to tune the effective spring rates like the real desert racers use. Short of that, KDSS is about as good as it's going to get. It was on all the pre-production models.

I'd love to see the article.

It'd be great to have a closed course and run two side by side to see. I'd bet the KDSS with the same shocks an all stock suspension components outruns a TRD Pro with the lighter sway bars around a short course. I'll bring my KDSS if someone wants to bring a TRD Pro - except I have FOX shocks.

Here is the article about the durability test/prototype vehicle.
2010 Toyota 4Runner Takes on the Baja 1000 - Motor Trend

 

[funshot]

I have a 2016 Trail with KDSS here in FLorida, love it. Since 90% will be on road and highway I wanted something that would perform where it would be used the most. Who knows, maybe I will start a thread one day complaining about it but for now, I like it.

 

[hayde89]

Here is the article about the durability test/prototype vehicle.
2010 Toyota 4Runner Takes on the Baja 1000 - Motor Trend

Read the article...It mentions KDSS once. Nothing negative and nothing positive. I do find it curious that LC have KDSS (A little more robust) and people look down on it for the 4runner. If it is good enough for the LC then we are fortunate to have the option on the 4runner. I do think it is all about the cost for it not being on the trd pro. They can sell a 4runner for a couple grand more with a 1 inch lift and a couple other changes such as wheels and front end for more even with excluding KDSS (good job toyota marketing team). The only way I believe it makes sense to get a TRD Pro is for the exclusive color and the warranty on a 1 inch lift. All and all the 4runner in any form is pretty damn awesome. Now let's get in to the argument of sunroofs because that is another dead horse that we can beat for hours!lane: