KDSS or other suspension options?

[Mike Honcho]

I have my choice of either a KDSS off-road or a non-KDSS off-road. Which to choose and why? I’ve read that it improves handling in curves and tippiness. That appeals to me. I could save some money buying the non-KDSS 4Runner because the other dealer is charging a $2,000 markup and of course the $1,750 initial price difference. Is there a suspension (coil over shocks) that anyone has tried that greatly reduces body roll? I’ve read Bilstein and Elka shocks are the ones to choose from.

Any advice would be appreciated. I’m on the clock here with deciding between the two. This color disappears quick when they hit the lots. Thanks!

 

[hoppyjr]

I was initially planning on non-KDSS to save the money, with the intention of aftermarket suspension. Mine is a daily driver, with mild to moderate use in other conditions. It does see plenty of winter weather driving, mostly on road.

I ended up with a 2022 Off Road Premium with KDSS and I’m glad I did. The system really works to deliver on road handling and stability, which was noticeable when compared to the non-KDSS model I drove. In the end, it’s an expensive purchase either way so I looked at the long term viewpoint.

I did end up adding Bilstein 6112 front and 5100 rear, with the fronts including new coils. When combined with the KDSS it makes for an excellent setup.

I understand KDSS to be pretty reliable and trouble free, so only negative is that it automatically kicks in at a relatively low speed - I believe it’s 12-18 mph. Since I can see the potential for dirt/gravel/logging roads where I may wish to go over these speeds, but still have the added articulation of a non-KDSS model, I installed the Dr. KDSS plug-in module. This allows the system to be disabled, effectively leaving it in “open” mode at higher speeds. It’s the drivers responsibility to use good judgment and re-engage KDSS when back on the road.

If you shop around I’m sure you can find a model with everything you want at msrp.

That’s my experience, I hope it helps.

Hoppy

 

[Mike Honcho]

Great first reply! I appreciate the detail.

My main issue with KDSS is just finding one. There are only two available within 500 miles of my location according to Toyota. One of those dealers wants to charge an additional $2,000 markup for the vehicle. So that vehicle is $3,750 more than a similar non-KDSS. Crazy!

Did the vehicle ride harsh and is that the reason you purchased replacement shocks? I’ve read that from some. How much do you have in the Bilstein shocks+installation? Just curious and I need a baseline for what I should pay if I go that route.

Thanks again!

 

[Pedro367]

Another vote for KDSS if you are staying relatively close to stock. Mine drove amazing stock. Never felt it to be stiff or anything. I put on Fox 2.0s in the front and rear and absolutely love the way it drives. It's stiffer than stock, but in a good way. Even more controlled and much better rebound. I also have airbags in the rear which stiffen it up a bit. I too have the Dr KDSS switch makes it really the best of both worlds.

If you plan to go crazy with your build I'd probably just go with the normal TRD OR. That money could be used on a really nice suspension from Fox, OME, Icon, or King and KDSS would be just about useless.

 

[Mike Honcho]

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like KDSS is a great system. Does anyone know if an aftermarket suspension can come close to it? Which type? Thanks!

 

[IslandJim]

So the other thing you want to keep in mind is the limits of a KDSS system. The best lift that you could put on an OR truck is 2 - 3 inches over oem. Most people on here who have lifted more than that have wound up taking off their KDSS system because of the limits of the KDSS system with a lift.

Am another who has KDSS and loves it, after my 6 year warranty period (drivetrain only) am thinking of putting a small lift on my truck, along with the other Dr. KDSS lift accessories.

Good luck in your decision....Jim

 

[AZ Craig]

Thoughts

So having owned a Trail Premium w/KDSS a few years back and then switching over to a 2020 Pro with the Fox shocks and no KDSS, here are my thoughts.

Is the KDSS system good and worth it? Probably at $1750. I never modified the suspension on my 2016 as I only had it for about 2.5 years, but I did enjoy the way it drove. The one thing that KDSS did not settle down for me though was the really bad nose dive that you tend to get out of the stock suspension on these vehicles. I've never had that issue with my Pro whatsoever.

I would say I've enjoyed the overall ride and handle of the Fox system on the Pro, maybe even more so after putting the mild Eibach lifting shocks on it about a year after getting it. In a lot of ways, I think KDSS with an aftermarket suspension is the best way to go, but it would definitely NOT be worth $3750 to me when I could get a REALLY nice aftermarket suspension for the same money.

My recommendation would be patience with trying to find a KDSS without mark-up (or take a road trip to get one more like 500 miles from your home), or just go ahead and get a standard TRD offoroad and have the ~$4000 (including sales tax) to pump into modifications off the dealer's lot.

 

[Ripper238]

KDSS primary purpose is for off-roading articulation. But it also helps with handling over a stock 4R quite a bit IMO.

You can enhance on/off road handling in other ways but they usually only do 1 of the 2 better. Like a thicker sway bar on a SR5 will enhance on road handling more than KDSS, but you lose the off road articulation.
You can also go with a lift, better shocks and springs but then you lose some on road handling but get an awesome off road 4R.

The key is your usage. For me I do a lot on road driving but do Overlanding adventures every summer so I need the best of both worlds. And that's KDSS.

KDSS is more like $4000 to replace so keep that in mind when it comes to the value/comparison of it and if it ever needs to be replaced (though unlikely). Its a pretty ingenious system for under 2k, well worth it for the one who doesn't want to do a full suspension upgrade IMO.

 

[Mike Honcho]

Would something like Bilstein 6112 Strut&Spring Assembled+Rear 5100 Shocks for 10-23 4Runnerthis Bilstein combo offer many of the advantages of the KDSS? My goal is good stability on road in mountain curves without a harsh jarring ride, while also maintaining good off-road capability for driving on poorly maintained dirt and fire roads as well as some running around the farm and through the woods in the mountains to get to the trout streams. Maybe too much to ask from one suspension? I’m going deep into the rabbit hole here guys and much of this is out of my wheelhouse. I’m just used to throwing on a set of Ranchos and BFGs and sending her. I only have a few days left and I have to make a decision, so I do appreciate all of the input and wisdom.

 

[Pedro367]

The one thing that KDSS did not settle down for me though was the really bad nose dive that you tend to get out of the stock suspension on these vehicles. I've never had that issue with my Pro whatsoever.

Good addition and I felt the same. Under hard braking, especially if that stupid auto brake assist system kicked in, the nose dive was still very very pronounced. The Fox's helped that considerably.

 

[IslandJim]

Good addition and I felt the same. Under hard braking, especially if that stupid auto brake assist system kicked in, the nose dive was still very very pronounced. The Fox's helped that considerably.

Yes agree, no sports car driving unless you like nosedive! It does seem to leap off the line though : )

 

[hoppyjr]

Great first reply! I appreciate the detail.

My main issue with KDSS is just finding one. There are only two available within 500 miles of my location according to Toyota. One of those dealers wants to charge an additional $2,000 markup for the vehicle. So that vehicle is $3,750 more than a similar non-KDSS. Crazy!

Did the vehicle ride harsh and is that the reason you purchased replacement shocks? I’ve read that from some. How much do you have in the Bilstein shocks+installation? Just curious and I need a baseline for what I should pay if I go that route.

Thanks again!

It rode fine, but keep in mind that auto manufacturers create most vehicles for the average driver, in average use and conditions. If you deviate from average, it’s worth considering upgrades.

The 4Runner is a supremely capable vehicle in stock form, likely more so that most of us actually need. This said, the models below the TRD Pro have suspension tuning intended to be run with P-metric passenger car type tires. The Pro gets an uprated suspension to go with it’s all-terrain rubber.

I upgraded to BFG K02’s and they are both more aggressive and heavier weight, so I wanted to enhance the suspension to allow all my modifications to work together for increased performance.

You don’t need to make all those changes, and certainly not when it’s new. I’m just “that guy”.

Doing some shopping online I’m into the suspension parts about $1k. Figure another $350-500 for install and alignment, if you don’t install yourself.

There are other ways to go so don’t feel my path needs to be yours. I’ll gladly offer insight offline, so PM me if you’d like to discuss. My background is as an dealer service manager, then long time enthusiast with experience modifying over 50 vehicles for myself and family.

As to the dealer markup: check dealers out of your area too. Consider buying long distance, as you can fly out and drive back for less than $2k I’m sure.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[hoppyjr]

Would something like Bilstein 6112 Strut&Spring Assembled+Rear 5100 Shocks for 10-23 4Runnerthis Bilstein combo offer many of the advantages of the KDSS? My goal is good stability on road in mountain curves without a harsh jarring ride, while also maintaining good off-road capability for driving on poorly maintained dirt and fire roads as well as some running around the farm and through the woods in the mountains to get to the trout streams. Maybe too much to ask from one suspension? I’m going deep into the rabbit hole here guys and much of this is out of my wheelhouse. I’m just used to throwing on a set of Ranchos and BFGs and sending her. I only have a few days left and I have to make a decision, so I do appreciate all of the input and wisdom.

KDSS is a unique system of hydraulic sway bars, so no springs & shocks will equal its performance. It’s a separate but equal thing, if that makes sense.

The member who mentions lift is correct; if you intend to do more than a couple inch lift I’d skip KDSS.

My truck came with a 3/2 lift from the dealer. I grew tired of it in a couple months, so I removed the lift and keep mine at stock height in the rear. The 6112’s bring it to level in front (about 1” higher than stock ORP, or equal to the stock TRD Pro).

 

[adrianlezama]

Another vote for KDSS if you are staying relatively close to stock. Mine drove amazing stock. Never felt it to be stiff or anything. I put on Fox 2.0s in the front and rear and absolutely love the way it drives. It's stiffer than stock, but in a good way. Even more controlled and much better rebound. I also have airbags in the rear which stiffen it up a bit. I too have the Dr KDSS switch makes it really the best of both worlds.

If you plan to go crazy with your build I'd probably just go with the normal TRD OR. That money could be used on a really nice suspension from Fox, OME, Icon, or King and KDSS would be just about useless.

Did you get any lift from the fox 2.0? Or did you add springs to the rear?

Last question I swear LOL… did you need any KDSS supporting mods for this set up?

I’m in between the fox 2.5 with DSC vs the 2.0 all around with 1 inch springs in the back. Very curious about the 2.0 set up since it’s significantly cheaper and I mainly just daily drive my truck. Would love to see a picture of your setup if you have one!

 

[Pedro367]

Did you get any lift from the fox 2.0? Or did you add springs to the rear?

Last question I swear LOL… did you need any KDSS supporting mods for this set up?

I’m in between the fox 2.5 with DSC vs the 2.0 all around with 1 inch springs in the back. Very curious about the 2.0 set up since it’s significantly cheaper and I mainly just daily drive my truck. Would love to see a picture of your setup if you have one!

Hey, sorry. Not sure if you made a choice yet. I don't get on here much.

I got 2" of lift in the front with the 2.0s and I didn't add any lift to the rear, but I do have towing airbags that I think give a little. The setup for the money is really great on the road. It handles so much better than stock. I really didn't see the need to go to 2.5s as I'm mostly on road as well. Unless you wanted to just go higher get the 2.5s as these max at 2", but I still fit a 285/70r17 no problem. I did have to go with the Dr. KDSS clamps as the stock ones I found kind of fell off. Easy fix with no issue since. I also went with JBA upper control arms, but I think that's overkill.

Overall it's been a really great package for how "little" it costs. It's been almost 3 years now and over 30k miles. No complaints or issues at all. The aluminum bodies still look new and I'm in NJ with road salt, although I do fluid film it all.