KDSS warning indicator

[Marcocopuffs]

2.6K is a lot for just a little corrosion on a pump!
Truck has 56229 Kilometers (about 35000 miles).
At that price point, I can swap out the entire suspension.

Wow! That's nothing. In terms of mileage. Again. You can remove KDSS, but you might not be able to use standard rear sway bars (maybe some custom fab work?) And I'm not sure how you can get rid of the warning lights (some coding perhaps?) I bet it can be done, you'd probably be the first. And I'm almost betting it'll be almost the same amount of money in the end...

 

[ShAwTWiN]

Wow! That's nothing. In terms of mileage. Again. You can remove KDSS, but you might not be able to use standard rear sway bars (maybe some custom fab work?) And I'm not sure how you can get rid of the warning lights (some coding perhaps?) I bet it can be done, you'd probably be the first. And I'm almost betting it'll be almost the same amount of money in the end...

Yeah, but the truck will have a complete new suspension for that price.

 

[1engineer]

2.6K is a lot for just a little corrosion on a pump!
Truck has 56229 Kilometers (about 35000 miles).
At that price point, I can swap out the entire suspension.

There is no pump in the KDSS hydraulic system.

 

[ShAwTWiN]

There is no pump in the KDSS hydraulic system.

Accumulator maybe ? 1300$ for that part.

Can I leave it alone (not functioning properly)?
I don't mind about the KDSS light...

I read the other thread about it and I'm looking at leaving the sway-bars in place but removing/cancelling the little shocks (cylinders), accumulators and piping. I'll eventually replace the shocks with better ones to "compensate" for the body roll. What do you think ?

 

[NuclearN8]

[MENTION=29376]sandcrawler[/MENTION] anything more than 3 turns and the system opens up to equalize (which is part of the procedure following replacement of a suspension component)... my point being if you don't make more than 3 turns (or whatever the procedure states) the system stays closed... but also doing this allows one to properly equalize the kdss system later in the life if it is required/ needed due to suspension replacement (either by need or want).

Call it a proactive PM/ insurance against finding the seized KDSS equalizing bolts later in life is all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQyZPN6IrTU

Cruiser Lean: "You've been doing it all wrong. Yes you" | IH8MUD Forum
KDSS valve rust- WARNING | IH8MUD Forum
KDSS - UNfrozen! How I did it... | IH8MUD Forum

I believe KDSS is an extremely reliable system (failures are extremely rare with normal use and care of the system) but it's not for everyone for different reasons... some people don't like crawling under their vehicle to inspect or exercise the equalizing valves (just in case they need to equalize the system later in life for whatever reason) and some people don't want the hassle of doing this or the risk offinding it seized. To each their own is all...

 

[1engineer]

Accumulator maybe ? 1300$ for that part.

Can I leave it alone (not functioning properly)?
I don't mind about the light...

Edit: I read the other thread about it and I'm looking at leaving the sway-bars in place but removing the little shocks (actuators), accumulators and piping. I'll replace the shocks with better ones to "compensate". What do you think ?

You have three main components for the front and rear KDSS:
1. Actuator Cylinder
2. Accumulator
3. Control Valve

If you are going to run it without the KDSS then you will need to substantially beef up the front and rear springs. The Actuator cylinder puts pressure on the front sway bar at speeds over around 12 mph that limits the torsion effect of that sway bar. Remember that the KDSS equipped vehicles have a different LCA and sway bar setup than the other 4Runners. Different mount point and different sway bar.

You sure you want to do this? Really really sure? You will effectively have to run heavy enough springs to compensate for the lack of sway bar. Let's just say the ride over interstate expansion joints or even worse, speed bumps, will be interesting to say the least.

You might want to search socaltrail's build thread, somewhere around the middle he was talking about doing away with KDSS and all the challenges. I don't remember if anyone else has done it.

 

[ShAwTWiN]

You have three main components for the front and rear KDSS:
1. Actuator Cylinder
2. Accumulator
3. Control Valve

If you are going to run it without the KDSS then you will need to substantially beef up the front and rear springs. The Actuator cylinder puts pressure on the front sway bar at speeds over around 12 mph that limits the torsion effect of that sway bar. Remember that the KDSS equipped vehicles have a different LCA and sway bar setup than the other 4Runners. Different mount point and different sway bar.

You sure you want to do this? Really really sure? You will effectively have to run heavy enough springs to compensate for the lack of sway bar. Let's just say the ride over interstate expansion joints or even worse, speed bumps, will be interesting to say the least.

You might want to search socaltrail's build thread, somewhere around the middle he was talking about doing away with KDSS and all the challenges. I don't remember if anyone else has done it.

I'll follow what my dealer told me: let it be that way.
I don't see myself replacing the Accumulator every 35 000 miles...(2 600$ CAD for the job)!!! It makes no sense!

 

[1engineer]

I'll follow what my dealer told me: let it be that way.
I don't see myself replacing the Accumulator every 35 000 miles...(2 600$ CAD for the job)!!! It makes no sense!

You shouldn't have to. I had my KDSS equipped vehicle for 70K before I traded and had no problems. 2600$CAD is about $2K US. It would be tough to get a heavy spring/shock suspension for that.

My advice? Let it ride for now and see what happens.

 

[ShAwTWiN]

You shouldn't have to. I had my KDSS equipped vehicle for 70K before I traded and had no problems. 2600$CAD is about $2K US. It would be tough to get a heavy spring/shock suspension for that.

My advice? Let it ride for now and see what happens.

Thanks for your help. What can go wrong if I drive it for a while like this?

 

[1engineer]

Thanks for your help. What can go wrong if I drive it for a while like this?

You should be fine. After re reading your posts I would have them attempt to clean the corrosion off the connectors, (do not let them mess with the hoses!) reset the code and drive it for awhile.

 

[ShAwTWiN]

You should be fine. After re reading your posts I would have them attempt to clean the corrosion off the connectors, (do not let them mess with the hoses!) reset the code and drive it for awhile.

I think I'll do it this summer along with checking the 2 hex nuts.

 

[sandcrawler]

Accumulator maybe ? 1300$ for that part.

it's the Stabilizer Control with Accumulator Housing Assembly... and all this repair is only due to corrosion of the electrical contacts in the wiring harness?

[MENTION=29376]sandcrawler[/MENTION] anything more than 3 turns and the system opens up to equalize (which is part of the procedure following replacement of a suspension component)... my point being if you don't make more than 3 turns (or whatever the procedure states) the system stays closed... but also doing this allows one to properly equalize the kdss system later in the life if it is required/ needed due to suspension replacement (either by need or want).

Call it a proactive PM/ insurance against finding the seized KDSS equalizing bolts later in life is all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQyZPN6IrTU

Cruiser Lean: "You've been doing it all wrong. Yes you" | IH8MUD Forum
KDSS valve rust- WARNING | IH8MUD Forum
KDSS - UNfrozen! How I did it... | IH8MUD Forum

I believe KDSS is an extremely reliable system (failures are extremely rare with normal use and care of the system) but it's not for everyone for different reasons... some people don't like crawling under their vehicle to inspect or exercise the equalizing valves (just in case they need to equalize the system later in life for whatever reason) and some people don't want the hassle of doing this or the risk offinding it seized. To each their own is all...

i don't disagree, but it's sometimes hard to separate the wheat from the chaff on the Internet, and there's a lot of hoodoo re: KDSS out there. reading those threads, when i see people posting that "they need to open the shutter valves, otherwise there's too much pressure in the system to fit the coilovers in" i start to worry... and then i check out.

taking care of the undercarriage is definitely a must-do, and it's way too easy to overlook the KDSS housing tucked up there under its skid plate, but that sucker collects everything and will hang onto it forever unless it's addressed. that's great advice.

i'm just uneasy about backing out the shutter valves at all. since the 4Runner shutter valves have 10mm heads — not flush hex fittings like the LandCruiser — it seems like if the skid is removed and the Accumulator Housing Assembly is cleaned and maintained, then it shouldn't be a problem. opening the shutter valves too far seems like a super easy mistake that's super, super expensive to make.

a better KDSS video specific to the 150 platform here btw.

You should be fine. After re reading your posts I would have them attempt to clean the corrosion off the connectors, (do not let them mess with the hoses!) reset the code and drive it for awhile.

it really does seem like they should try to salvage the connectors before replacing the whole thing. way cheaper and less labor intensive.

I think I'll do it this summer along with checking the 2 hex nuts.

again, not hex like the LandCruiser. the shutter valves have 10mm heads.

 

[ShAwTWiN]

it really does seem like they should try to salvage the connectors before replacing the whole thing. way cheaper and less labor intensive.

Do you think it's possible from your experience? Can it be done without removing the accumulator? Any thoughts on how I should approche this?

Thx alot!

 

[sandcrawler]

Do you think it's possible from your experience? Can it be done without removing the accumulator? Any thoughts on how I should approche this?

Thx alot!

have you taken a look at it yourself yet? it's easy to do: just two 12mm bolts to remove the skid and get your own eyes on it.

the wiring connector fastens to the KDSS Stabilizer Control with Accumulator Housing Assembly at its center, on the opposite side of the bleeder plug (see diagram below).

no, you don't have to remove the accumulator. i would definitely do a reality check on the dealer's assessment.

Code C1812

The hydraulic pump is malfunctioning due to corrosion of its electric connector (joys of eastern Canadian winters - truck is oiled each year tho).

Parts needed to correct the problem:

90980-12303 - 18.45$ CAD (1x 18.45$ CAD)
82998-24260 - 183.12$ CAD (6x 30.52$ CAD)
82999-12120 - 36.30$ CAD (6x 6.05$ CAD)
82999-30010 - 130.20$ CAD (6x 21.70$ CAD)
48006-60031 - 1390.91$ CAD (1x 18.45$ CAD)

2022.39$ CAD (incl. taxes) just in parts!!!!

+ 4 hrs of time to do the job (119.95$ CAD / hr)

Total including taxes = 2574.04$ CAD

DTC code C1812 is:
Pressure Sensor Malfunction / Upside
- Harness or connector
- Accumulator pressure sensor (Stabilizer control with accumulator housing assembly)
- Stabilizer control ECU

so if it's really only corroded electrical contacts in the harness or connector—and not the control/accumulator itself (pressure sensor or ECU)—i would take my time and clean the whole assembly up with a wire brush, a nylon bristle brush, and some firm enough to be effective (but gentle enough not to break anything) effort. don't go at it hard, pick away at it—patience!

then, depending on the connectors' state, i'd clean them up as best i could and hit the electrical contacts with WD40 or electrical contact cleaner of your choice. let dry completely; clean up; repeat.

you'll likely know if you've made enough of an improvement to have any positive effect based solely upon how they look post-cleaning. living on the Maine seacoast, it's easy for me to imagine what this mess looks like at the moment. this is the reality of the "Salt Life" hwell:

with luck, you should be able to plug it back in, have the dealer clear the DTC Code, and see what happens. if you have a ScanGauge or copy of TIS TechStream and cable you could do this part yourself too.

you could also have the dealer try to clean it up as per [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]'s recommendation but, as he advised, definitely don't let them mess with the hydraulic fluid's tubing connections!! then you'll truly be looking at the whole-hog repair.

 

[sandcrawler]

relevant FSM diagram:

 

[96r50]

taking care of the undercarriage is definitely a must-do, and it's way too easy to overlook the KDSS housing tucked up there under its skid plate, but that sucker collects everything and will hang onto it forever unless it's addressed. that's great advice.

Yes, yes it does (see below).

After going through this thread I took off my KDSS skid plate and found it packed with dirt and rocks. There was also a bunch of mud on top of the lines and accumulator assembly. I spent about 15 minutes with a shop vac, a brass bristle brush and a few small picks and managed to get everything cleaned up. I then coated it all with some Fluid Film to prevent any further corrosion.

One thing of note, the main body of the accumulator assembly is aluminum, unlike on the LC200 where it is steel. So while the assembly itself won't rust, there was definitely some galvanic corrosion going on where the steel bolts and bleeder valve thread in to the aluminum body.

 

[sandcrawler]

Yes, yes it does (see below).

After going through this thread I took off my KDSS skid plate and found it packed with dirt and rocks. There was also a bunch of mud on top of the lines and accumulator assembly. I spent about 15 minutes with a shop vac, a brass bristle brush and a few small picks and managed to get everything cleaned up. I then coated it all with some Fluid Film to prevent any further corrosion.

One thing of note, the main body of the accumulator assembly is aluminum, unlike on the LC200 where it is steel. So while the assembly itself won't rust, there was definitely some galvanic corrosion going on where the steel bolts and bleeder valve thread in to the aluminum body.

nice! that actually looks quite decent to me.

salt on the roads is bad enough, but living in a marine environment 24/7/365 exacerbates/accelerates the corrosion something awful; salt literally in the air, every day of the year.

i'd be curious to know if any of this is what inspired the differences in control/accumulator assembly design between the LC 200 and the Prado 150 lines.

 

[wfo9]

As far as opening the shutter valves go.. to perform the tilt cabibration.. Here is the trick. Read the instructions and note how they measure the distance for opening the shutter valves. They specify 10-12mm, but they measure that from the outer most surface of the bolt to the mounting flange. I've never seen such confusing instructions before and it is the sole reason everyone screws it up. Besides those poorly written instructions it is super simple and easy to do.

I despise working on a truck with KDSS. Really don't like the way it is designed.

 

[ShAwTWiN]

Thx everyone for all the informations! Since it's still winter and I don't access to a garage, I'll have to wait to take a good look at it. I'll report back with pictures!

 

[NuclearN8]

As far as opening the shutter valves go.. to perform the tilt cabibration.. Here is the trick. Read the instructions and note how they measure the distance for opening the shutter valves. They specify 10-12mm, but they measure that from the outer most surface of the bolt to the mounting flange. I've never seen such confusing instructions before and it is the sole reason everyone screws it up. Besides those poorly written instructions it is super simple and easy to do.

I despise working on a truck with KDSS. Really don't like the way it is designed.

I never realized the 4Runner was different than the LC200 in this regard. It does sound confusing and extermely easy to accidently open up the system if simply exercising these valves to ensure they don't seize...10-12 mm is like 3/8"-1/2".... maybe it's not such a good idea on the 4runner and it's better to just lather them up with some protectant grease or fluid film and leave them shut?