Last Chance Before My Wife Sells Our 4R

[Dryheat]

Howdy,

I've been lurking here for a while, struggling to find a solution, but this is my first post. My wife's 2011 SR5 4WD has a rattle. I know, I know, the name for 4Runners in Japanese is probably the Japanese word for "rattle." And I know there probably have been more threads about rattles than any other topic in the history of forums, but if I can't fix this %$#@ thing, I'm going to have to get rid of this truck. Soon. I know that sounds crazy, but we've been fighting this for a year and a half and my wife is literally in tears :cry2:, and you guys know the drill, if momma ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy. Here's my tale of woe...

2011 SR5 4x4. Bought in perfect condition with 16k miles on the clock. At just over 20k miles The Rattle started. It was quiet and intermittent. As time went on it became louder and more frequent. Trip #1 to dealer. Ticket came back "cannot duplicate." They never heard a thing. They would chase this noise four more times. The service writer drove it, rode in it, and stood on the curb as it drove by. Heard the rattle every time. But the techs in the shop could not duplicate it. It ONLY happened under an engine load while driving and so would not happen in the shop. And of course there's something in the manual about not allowing techs to be strapped underneath while driving.

Finally I took it to an independent shop. They had a big drive-on lift and they were able to get it to make the noise by putting it in gear, and applying the brake and the throttle together while a mechanic poked around underneath. It was still very difficult because it would only occur a couple of times and then not again until they took the truck down and drove it around until it started again. Then they'd put it back on the rack. They finally determined it seemed to be coming from the passenger side cat.

Armed with this info I returned to Toyota and amazingly, on the strength of the independent shop's report, they replaced the cat/manifold assembly under the emissions warranty. The truck was quiet as a church for exactly two days, and then the rattle returned. :ybrick:Feeling I'd worn out my welcome at Toyota with that maneuver, I returned - none too happy - to the independent shop. They kept the truck for a day, made it rattle, tightened a few things, but could not find the source.

Details: The rattle starts just after the truck is warmed up. It happens most strongly at 1400 rpms. It will also happen around 2000 rpms. It is easiest to hear at low speeds, about 20 mph, in 2nd gear. It sounds like a light to medium weight metallic rattle. Like a heat shield or just slightly heavier. It sounds like it is just forward of the middle of the truck. It is about equal in sound from the driver to passenger side. I realize sounds can seem like they are coming from "somewhere else", but as this only happens when I'm driving it I can only narrow it down so much.

A number of potential sources have been found and eliminated. Loose bolt on 2nd skid plate (actually took skid plates off - no change), loose plastic clip on fuel tank skid plate, the aforementioned passenger-side cat, slightly bent strap on gas tank, very light rattle in radiator shroud, loose heat shield, rocks on top of heat shields and skid plates, etc. I rebuilt the compression joint in the exhaust system. Just about everything that can be seen or touched has been touched, checked, tightened. Including all of the ten thousand heat shields. Including bolts on front fender liners. NOTHING has had any effect.

It does not sound like detonation or piston slap or valves or any of the usual internal engine noises. It is a light metallic rattle. (Like a %$#@ heat shield!) Turning has no effect, braking has no effect, putting the transfer case in 4WD has no effect. You absolutely cannot create the sound revving the engine in neutral. It requires the truck be warmed up and the engine under a light load. Something is resonating at 1400 rpms, and it's rattling. Or causing something nearby to rattle. And no one can find it.

My wife is going to take this beautiful 4Runner and trade it, at a loss I'm sure, for a new Kia Sorento. Yeah, I know! :redbrick: But at this point I have no answer for her. I'm ready to say "whatever" just to close this ugly chapter. Any help would be sincerely appreciated. :hail:

 

[Matt fe2o3]

So your not maybe going to like my idea. Grab a video camera like a Contour or GoPro that has audio recording.

Velcro it to various spots under the hood. Then you hear the noise, stop, turn it off and mount it come where else.

Keep a record of each location. Try to use the same road for the test. Since the Contours and GoPros all record at the same audio level, you should be able to find it by comparing locations. It could be a fog light housing, or it could be the spare tire chain rattling. Never underestimate how far irritating sound will travel.

I had a hell of an irritating noise (non 4R) that turned out to be a piece of plastic rubbing on a fan impeller. Made a racket like a skunk porking a cat. But not always... Once I identified it and got the little mfg leftover nub to fall out it was right as rain.

Edit, now it is my understanding that Toyota dealers also have a audio recording kit to do the exact same thing, but they want money for the diagnostics, because Toyota does not pay them to do diagnostic work, only failures on warranty.

So I say as an option, pay them the 500 bucks (if they have the gear), identify the problem and take up the reimbursement with Toyota if they balk after the issue is found.

 

[Antman]

Get under the truck (engine off- but after everything's all warmed up) and start smacking stuff with a deadlow hammer. Now, use some common sense here regarding what you are hitting- but try to recreate the noise that way and go from there. Good luck!

 

[Biggcrisp]

Keep chasing it

Or just let her sell it. Obviously she is not happy with it.

There is a finite number of things that can cause a rattle.

How loud is it? Can you hold a conversation over it? Does the stereo drown it out?

If it was me, and the rattle wasn't extreme, I would simply turn up the radio when not having a conversation.

If it is so loud that you can't ignore it then it should be an easy find. My wife sets her pink can of mace next to the transfere case shifter, under certain conditions it will rattle. The transfer case has a very fast rattle FYI.

Now if the drivers door wouldn't open, and no one could fix it, I might sell lol.

 

[Danimal]

Well, you mentioned that replacing part of the exhaust fixed it for some period of time. Perhaps it's a heat shield on a different piece of exhaust that wasn't replaced at that time?

 

[Stifler]

if it is her vehicle just let her trade it... if it is yours grow some damn balls!

 

[rigtec]

Hi Dryheat, welcome to the forum!

I've been there and I feel you! You can 'and will' find that annoying sound source. But first, try buying more time. Just think, if you resolve this issue for your wife you'll be her hero 'for the rest of that whole day' :kiss: "...how fine is that?" lol! I know you've already isolated the rattle to a specific area but I never heard you say that you've searched inside of that area's frame voids; lots-o-stuff likes to hide in there because nobody remembers to look there and MANY cars/trucks have been relinquished as a result... I've even found wrenches and sockets in there! I think you'll find it! Rgds

 

[NMJack]

Are the catalytic converters in these filled with "pellets?" I had a '96 Caprice with the 350 V8 and factory dual exhausts. GM placed a "dampener" on the right exhaust adjacent to the Cat to dampen the vibrations. Of course, this lead/sand filled device also made it's own rattle. The dealer could hear it, but if they removed that source of noise, I'm assuming it would have revealed even more noise from the Cat. We decided to just leave it. So, it could be that the initial diagnostic was correct and the only "fix" may be to mess with the exhaust mounts/hangers. Just a WAG.

 

[BigOlTater]

if it is her vehicle just let her trade it... if it is yours grow some damn balls!

that really helps him a lot, don't be one of those guys!

 

[meltdown]

that really helps him a lot, don't be one of those guys!

Then he wouldn't be Stifler.

 

[uood8]

Its probably a heat shield rattling, mine did it with 300 miles. If you get under the truck and find it if you grab the shield it will move and rattle. Took it off and put a washer on the each of the 3 bolts....hasn't rattled since.

There are quite a few threads on this, thats how i found it. One explains the location and has pictures i think.

 

[manofsteele2003]

Are the catalytic converters in these filled with "pellets?"

I'm pretty sure they stopped using the pellet type converters in the 80's and even still that was an American car manufacturers thing.

 

[Dryheat]

Thanks for all the responses guys. It's frustrating for sure. The possibility of something hiding in the frame is one I hadn't heard or thought of. I'm also thinking that even though all of the fasteners on the heat shields are secure, they have a lot of surface area that is just hanging around and might vibrate anyway. The sound is so much like a piece of metal of that type, instead of focusing on tightening fasteners, I'm going to try completely removing all of them temporarily and seeing if the noise is still there.

The fact that the truck has to warm up before the noise starts makes it seem like it has to be something connected to the engine, or more likely the exhaust, that becomes loose as metal heats and expands. The heat shields on the cats are known culprits, but they are all rock solid with all fasteners in place. One of the things that makes it difficult is that once you get it good and warm and rattling it's very difficult to stick your hands around in there and start grabbing stuff. Make the mistake of coming in contact with one of those cats and you'll know what all the heat shields are for!

And I have tried the percussion method of automotive maintenance, pounding on anything and everything underneath with a fist or a rubber mallet. That's how I found most all of the things that have already been fixed.

I've heard the GoPro idea before. Wish they weren't quite so pricey. Since it's really sound I'm after I might try using a small audio recorder that I already have and can spare. Though, the video of the camera coming loose and bouncing down the road in pieces before the video goes black might be entertaining!

My kingdom for a really skinny tech who would agree to be strapped to the underside of a moving vehicle for a couple cases of beer.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

 

[rigtec]

"...The sound is so much like a piece of metal of that type, instead of focusing on tightening fasteners, I'm going to try completely removing all of them temporarily and seeing if the noise is still there..."

By watching your approach I can perceive that you're extremely aware and analytical... "My bet is that you'll find it; there's no question in my mind!" Best to you!

rigtec, cheers

 

[Stifler]

that really helps him a lot, don't be one of those guys!

stop being a sensitive Nancy

 

[chum8888]

I had the same thing happen to me with my Subaru Tribeca before I got rid of it for the 4 runner. It was annoying as hell and only did it when the car was warm. It turned out that the heat shield was contacting the exhaust. They removed the heat shield completely and it stopped the rattling. I asked them whether it was ok not to have a heat shield in that location and they said it was fine.

 

[Dryheat]

Rigtec - Thanks for the vote of confidence. Wish I felt as optimistic. One minute I want to wash my hands of it and let her trade it if she wants. The next I'm wanting to get back underneath and take another crack at it, thinking getting rid of what SHOULD be an awesome truck over a rattle is ridiculous. It's giving me a run for my money, for sure.

BigOlTater - Thanks. Appreciate it. But don't worry about Stiffler. I ain't skeered! :boxing:


I'll let y'all know what happens.

 

[Dryheat]

I had the same thing happen to me with my Subaru Tribeca before I got rid of it for the 4 runner. It was annoying as hell and only did it when the car was warm. It turned out that the heat shield was contacting the exhaust. They removed the heat shield completely and it stopped the rattling. I asked them whether it was ok not to have a heat shield in that location and they said it was fine.

For the guy that owns the company that makes heat shields, modern vehicles mean the whole company goes to Hawaii every year, and the 4Runner is definitely no exception. Hard to say how much is over-kill. The fact that most of the the shields are metal, attached to metal, with metal fasteners, and TRANSFER heat quite readily with no insulating property whatsoever, makes me question the whole business. The only ones that seem they might have a benefit are those that protect closely mounted or heat sensitive engine components from each other.

But IF I find that a heat shield is the culprit my first response will of course be to see what I can do to keep it in place but kill the rattle. As I said, I had been making sure that all fasteners were in place, tight, and that the shields seems secure. But my next step is to disregard that they APPEAR to be okay and start removing them all, one at a time, and driving it after each shield-ectomy. We'll see...

Kinda funny that I considered a Subaru as a possibly replacement if my wife insists on ditching the 4R. Despite the fact that I just bought a '14 Tundra, I'm thinking she'll be scratching Toyota off her list.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

Despite the fact that I just bought a '14 Tundra, I'm thinking she'll be scratching Toyota off her list.

Honestly that would be a shame... because depsite the issues which do seem frustrating, I think you would have a higher chance of as bad or worse issues with other brands.

While Toyota doesn't offer the most features or excitement for the money, they easily offer the most peace of mind. Sounds like you have a plan and should be able to resolve a relatively minor (though annoying) issue.

 

[sandcrawler]

hmmmm... i had a very similar rattle and looked into all the usual suspects (exhaust, etc.) and finally, after much head-scratching, tracked it down to the aft skid plate, which sounds like it may be in the area your rattle is coming from. also, my rattle only showed up at ~15mph. same heavy, metallic presence you describe as well.

even after locating the source, for the life of me i couldn't figure out what was actually causing it to rattle. i was concerned that it may have been a bad front diff carrier bearing causing driveline vibes but that really didn't make sense either because the rattle occurred in 4WD as well. (as you describe.)

so, question: what condition are your tires in? have you tried rotating them to eliminate them as a potential cause?

when i rotated mine front to back the rattle went away completely. turned out my tires were the source; uneven wear that was sending a vibration along the shaft and into the aft skid that could only be felt/heard at low speed.

you mention trying a lot of things but no mention of tires...

hope this helps.