jdtaylor42
New member
If you come through Flagstaff and need a guide to stretch her legs or a place to crash feel free to PM me. Welcome to stop by my place
LawnDart's Build Thread
- Thread starter LawnDart
- Start date
If you come through Flagstaff and need a guide to stretch her legs or a place to crash feel free to PM me. Welcome to stop by my place
Doc_Fry
New member
Would be of benefit to myself and a plethora of other forum members to shoot some video when doing your intial trail run when shaking out any gremlin to show the what the difference truly is. Too bad you couldnt do a regular vs Lufthansa vs lt comparison for future owners and as a path of upgrade since many dont understand that the price of admission to LT is less than the full blown ICON setup. Though nice many dont even understand the limitations that the ICON has even though it is a very nice setup.
Unfortunately for me I dont think that with the 4Runner I will ever go this route with the 4runner. There is a chance of perhaps getting a HUMVEE or a Pinzgauer. Yet, thinking on that if I really wanted to go towards a capably rig I would get something without IFS and start out with a platform that would not have the inherent limitations. I do enjoy the 4Runner, yet myself have concluded that I am itching to go back down this route. But, having done so before knowing the cost the performance and the gains the limitations the sacrifice. I would like to attempt to do a build with a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited and some of the excellent AEV and other type gear out there. I wished that when Toyota did the original FJ that they had done a more true type of build than they did. They did well, by in the ned the segment did not hold for them and I am saddned by that.
But I need some form of income so I can once again play with the higher end of toys and friends such as your lucky man who have the skills and equipment to do these types of mods without having to run a buisness out of my wallet.
Your build is inspiring and looks great. I enjoy looking at the differnt avenues a platform can take. It is both exciting and scary at the same time to head down a plath that as far as I know none have really headed down on the 5th generation. Kudos to you and I hope that it turn out to be everything you where wanting and more. I look forward to seeing how everything ends up.
If you put this much thought into your film work I also would be interested in looking at some of your projects as well. I myelin am trying to put something small together since I a going through service animal training again next month for a PTSD/TBI Animal who does not only psychological but physical assistance. I have not seen anything out there for the wounded warriors to see what is involved in this process and though of doing a dear diary and daly type documentary. I was thinking of doing just the nice little 4k action cams to have it as easy and hands off as possible so it doesnt interfere with my training and using the platform could do a POV from the K9. We will see what the future hold and if K9 for Warriors would allow me to do so. As well as the proposals I put in for some small amounts of Equipment from either Garmin or GoPro are approved as of at this time I could never be able to put the things needed together in such short notice without a second mortgage and wy too much risk for a non profit type of project that really is only intended to be able to help other veterans know there options whats involved and some idea of the process so they aren't in the dark As well as me giving back as being a Doc it is my duty as well and I am not ashamed of my injuries but wear them as a badge of honor and not something to be ashamed of. As well as to hopefully be able to curb at least one veteran suicide when there are over 22 of them that happen daily. It is a shame when there are now so many out there willing to help. When I got my first service k9 who recently passed in March from spleen cancer I really was on my own. There was some orgs out there but not much and it was really new too as well as the waiting lists where 3-4 years and I wouldnt be alive today if I had waited that long. I had to do the hard road and raise the funds myself. Yet along my path I met a very cool veteran knife makers Les George who took it as his personal mission to help me raise the funds necessary and got with Jeremy Horton, and Mic Strider all of them made a few one off pieces and with their word and help was able to get the funding needed. Yet, alone it is way too much for anyone to handle on their own. I dont think that I could have even made it through the process even with undo alone. That is why. I want to highlight such great orgs and services to vets out there. Anyways, sorry to ramble. I am enjoying myself watching you progress with each step. Keep it up good sir!
LawnDart
Senior Member
IFS has it's strengths, solid axel has it's strengths too. Neither is perfect, and you have to compromise. I'm really happy with what we've accomplished and can't wait to take it camping to see how she does.
I'll try to have Walt film things on my iphone, as he has a course he likes to shake vehicles down on. And we'll be doing that monday/tuesday. Unfortunately there's just no way to do a stock vs icon vs king/long travel video. Also not sure I track regarding LT costing less than the ICON. Trust me this setup is on a factor of 4x the cost of a stage 5/6 to build out everything, debug it, etc.
It's not a drop in the bucket upgrade, and like all performance upgrades you don't get 4x the performance necessarily.
Also it's amazing how little we had to crank down on the coilovers. In fact Walt removed my right coilover and actually backed it off 3/8" to get it sitting level. Compared to my ICONs which were seriously cranked down.
And for those interested in a before/after:
Doc_Fry
New member
Cost: referring not to the whole shebang but just getting into the Total Chaos LT game. Just the front Shocks and the Total Chaos Kit. Along with a basic LT rear Shock, Upgraded Spring, and Spacers, along with limiting straps in the rear. IT is actually not terrible when compared to the whole ICON Billet setup.
Now start adding things like secondary shocks, bump stops, special kit, Beadlocks, Tire upgrade to 35's, etc. Then yes the cost is substantially more. I know this as well for a fact.
But a basic breakdown. Not Exact either.
Total Chaos +2 Kit w/ upgraded Axels with Cvs and Gusseted Spindles.
around $3500
Front Shocks w/ bracket for reservoir and Springs
Around $1600
Rear LT travel for Example Metal techs kit
basic $700 Upper end $1700
Total entry kit (though not so entry) : $5800 and some change.
For comparison A complete stage 7 Icon Suspension
around $6300
So there are major differences yes. yet it really isnt that big of a jump. Jsut jumps greatly like I said when you add everything else to get what you have for example. Yet, the entry ticket is fair and still cost prohibitive vs a regular run of the mill 4runner lift at under $2K all day.
I hope this helps explain myself. Btw.. it is doable as a DIY I did mine myself on my FJ... Just had the welding outsourced.
Now start adding things like secondary shocks, bump stops, special kit, Beadlocks, Tire upgrade to 35's, etc. Then yes the cost is substantially more. I know this as well for a fact.
But a basic breakdown. Not Exact either.
Total Chaos +2 Kit w/ upgraded Axels with Cvs and Gusseted Spindles.
around $3500
Front Shocks w/ bracket for reservoir and Springs
Around $1600
Rear LT travel for Example Metal techs kit
basic $700 Upper end $1700
Total entry kit (though not so entry) : $5800 and some change.
For comparison A complete stage 7 Icon Suspension
around $6300
So there are major differences yes. yet it really isnt that big of a jump. Jsut jumps greatly like I said when you add everything else to get what you have for example. Yet, the entry ticket is fair and still cost prohibitive vs a regular run of the mill 4runner lift at under $2K all day.
I hope this helps explain myself. Btw.. it is doable as a DIY I did mine myself on my FJ... Just had the welding outsourced.
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JEMP1003
New member
Holly bejesus!
Looks awesome!!!!! That's the tire size they should come from the factory with, makes 33 look toyish lol
SalsaRed
New member
[MENTION=124732]LawnDart[/MENTION] your truck is perfect. Every time I checked the lifted pics thread I was hoping to see a 4Runner that someone built like yours, and now it's done. Your truck is my theoretically perfect 4Runner build that I will aspire to be some day.
I seriously would love to have a picture of your rig on some awesome trail enlarged and printed into a poster so I can drool over it all day.
I seriously would love to have a picture of your rig on some awesome trail enlarged and printed into a poster so I can drool over it all day.
gm350reratliff
New member
Did he ever get the rear tires to quit rubbing the sway bar?
Also it's amazing how little we had to crank down on the coilovers. In fact Walt removed my right coilover and actually backed it off 3/8" to get it sitting level. Compared to my ICONs which were seriously cranked down.
What spring rate did you go with on the Kings? 700 I'm guessing?
gm350reratliff
New member
I'll be in LV next weekend as well. Hit me up if you want to go for a little trail ride or grab a drink.
LawnDart
Senior Member
600lbs. The long travel coil over and bypasses handle the weight far better, and 700 would actually have caused it to be too stiff a ride. We've almost got the coilovers backed all the way up (i.e almost no pre-loading. It's just valved really well. So IF I wanted to go to a larger front bumper, or heavier, I don't have to change much, just the coilover and where it's cranked down.
And yes, he had to shorten the anti-rock sway bar/torsion bar (it's sort of both) by an inch or two, problem solved. We deleted the sway bar up front but the bypasses essential do the same job.
Sometimes I wish I was rocking an RTT just for that en vogue overlanding look. But I'm doing the Xventure3 trailer. So that solves my RTT needs. But thanks, we have a little more work to do to it in november and then I focus on the trailer when Schutt is able to make us one of the first XV3s.
4Running303
New member
I went back and forth with the rtt, but realistically, the storage of the rtt when I don't need it (which face it, would be 98% of the time for me), the added weight up high, and the drag...lead me to splurge on a off road tear drop trailer (Hiker...they're local to me, and allow for a bare bones trailer that is pre-wired through the frame). Unfortunately I didn't get much time this summer to work on it cause it was delivered the day before I closed on a new house.
House>4Runner>tear drop...that's the order of funding I've made for myself.
Hmmmpf...adulting.
maddiesel67
New member
How tall of a bumpstop ended up being necessary in the rear with the 35s?
LawnDart
Senior Member
It required a 2" spacer.
maddiesel67
New member
since you have to use a 2" bump spacer you may be able to use these for more down travel in the rear.
King 2.5 Front Adjustable Piggy Hose Reservoir Shock Jeep Wrangler JK with 3-5 Inch Lift: Off Road Shocks
to my understanding from this awesome post over on the fj forum. JK front shocks are similar in mounting to our rears.
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/foru...more-expensive-if-youre-into-bigthumb-29.html
King 2.5 Front Adjustable Piggy Hose Reservoir Shock Jeep Wrangler JK with 3-5 Inch Lift: Off Road Shocks
to my understanding from this awesome post over on the fj forum. JK front shocks are similar in mounting to our rears.
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/foru...more-expensive-if-youre-into-bigthumb-29.html
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wfo9
New member
The motion ratio on the LT is very different (the shock mount is further outboard), so 600lb springs are probably more like 700 on a stock travel shock. I don't think it has anything to do with the valving in terms of how it holds up the weight statically...
As far as the bypass goes... They can obviously be adjusted to control dampening at different travel points, but if you stiffen them up for initial travel.. that is going to be stiff all the time. A sway bar is all about body control across the axle. It sort of dynamically increases the outside spring rate in a corner. Something electronic like magnetic ride control can also do this with dampening... But I've never heard of a simple hydraulic mechanical setup that can do this. I guess you could stiffen mid travel for on road use..
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Jhalko
New member
Hate the way my RTT looks, I'm well over the gawkers, and it's a minor inconvenience to load on and off, but god I love sleeping in it...
gm350reratliff
New member
That makes sense. Good to know.
LawnDart
Senior Member
Correct, but the bypasses can be tuned to help reduce body roll to some capacity more than you'd get than just running LT Coilovers and doing a swaybar delete without bypasses.
Ideally we'd be able to do an anti-rock setup in the front, but it just wouldn't work in an IFS setup, and trust me we actually tried.
Either way tomorrow will be my first time driving it. So this is all conjecture for sure.
wfo9
New member
With the wide stance and all the adjustments available.. I'm assuming it will feel quite stable on the road. I doubt it will feel like a sports car.. but I've never understood why people expect a big heavy offroad oriented SUV to feel that way in the first place.
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