TX med
New member
The 2017 Raptor was backed by Ford and raced by Greg Foutz, a four time Baja winner. They placed 3rd last year. Looks like apples to apples.
LawnDart's Build Thread
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The 2017 Raptor was backed by Ford and raced by Greg Foutz, a four time Baja winner. They placed 3rd last year. Looks like apples to apples.
Mr.Rick
New member
You can usually find reasonable deals on the raptors, and I use the term reasonable very loosely. I was looking this morning on CL and a guy has a 2017 raptor crewcab, fully loaded with a ton of aftermarket Baja design lights and stuff on it with 1400 miles listed for $73k. Each vehicle build definitely has its purpose the raptor was designed to be a "go-fast" while the 4runner can be built to do that, it wasn't designed for that purpose. To each their own. I love the 4runner as you have built it, but I wouldn't knock you for getting into a raptor considering all the gear you carry and what you like to do with your vehicle. I am a Toyota guy through and through but I will say Ford has built a very nice vehicle in the F150.
LawnDart
Senior Member
My biggest problem with most brand devotees is that they tend to close themselves off from better options. Let's be honest. The Toyota platform isn't as reliable as its hyped up to be and the Fords aren't unreliable as we all make jokes of them out to be. Anyone want to bring up the infamous frame recall on every tacoma?!
Everyone jokes about how Found On Road Dead is the norm. And that may be how it was 10 years ago but ford has been making some killer products for a while.
Add to that TRD has done nothing but neuter their product line.
Everyone jokes about how Found On Road Dead is the norm. And that may be how it was 10 years ago but ford has been making some killer products for a while.
Add to that TRD has done nothing but neuter their product line.
TX med
New member
I'm by no means knocking the Raptor. It's awesome that they have an active community all over the US. If I ever have the opportunity to, I'm definitely going to get one in the future. Parts fail/break all the time, no matter the brand. Go the route that makes you smile more.
My comment was pertaining about his reference to 2015.
Either way doesn't really matter. The two are barely in the same ball park.
Tundra trd pro
10.6" ground clearance
381/401 hp/tq
2.5" Dia bilsteins
6.4/15.1 - 0-60/1/4 mile (for standard Tundra - same engine as trd)
10.5/9.5 - travel front and rear
275/65r18 - all terrain tires on standard rims
https://www.digitaltrends.com/car-reviews/2016-toyota-tundra-trd-pro-review/
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-toyota-tundra-trd-pro-first-drive-review (Model mostly unchanged since 2015)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-toyota-tundra-57l-v-8-crewmax-4x4-test-review
Raptor
11.5" ground clearance
450/510 hp/tq
3" dia fox shocks
5.1/13.8 - 0-60/quarter mile
13/13.9 travel front and rear
315/70r17 - all terrain ko2 on aluminum bead lock capable rims
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cara...s/2017-ford-f-150-raptor-crew-cab-test-review
Not to mention, the interior/amenities/options are like comparing a corolla to an Avalon..
If anyone has some better statistics as to why the Tundra trd pro is somehow better I'd be interested to see them.
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I still could never bring myself to buy a Ford ever again. Not after how hard they f**ked me (not to mention my family).
That said, the Raptor, capability-wise and size-wise, is something I wish more manufacturers would emulate. The current off-road market is pretty weak/thin. You have the Wrangler, the 4R, the Raptor, and the Tacoma. The Colorado maybe... some issues with clearance on standard models, the ZR2 is a little better due to the different front end. The fancy pants shocks steered me away from it. Yes, they're nice. They're also overly complicated (and expensive) for what they are. Nissan killed the Xterra. The Frontier... maybe?
But Ford.... I don't care how nice their stuff is. Never again will they see a red cent from me. Never. Again.
That said, the Raptor, capability-wise and size-wise, is something I wish more manufacturers would emulate. The current off-road market is pretty weak/thin. You have the Wrangler, the 4R, the Raptor, and the Tacoma. The Colorado maybe... some issues with clearance on standard models, the ZR2 is a little better due to the different front end. The fancy pants shocks steered me away from it. Yes, they're nice. They're also overly complicated (and expensive) for what they are. Nissan killed the Xterra. The Frontier... maybe?
But Ford.... I don't care how nice their stuff is. Never again will they see a red cent from me. Never. Again.
Done with my gripe about Ford..... on to positive comments.....
Really awesome stuff, Dart. Going through the pics and reading about your experience..... one, taught me some stuff..... and two, just really freakin' AWESOME! I'm glad you got the opportunity and shared it with us all. Hell, I almost feel like we need to do a community war chest to help with the repairs. lol
Looking forward to hearing and seeing more of your adventures.........
LawnDart
Senior Member
I'm sort of at a cross roads. I know it'll cost about 4-5K to fix the truck up, after that I don't know what I'll do. If I could sell my 4Runner for a good price, I'd have no qualms about doing the Raptor. And maybe in 6 months the prices will be a lot better. All I know is the truck is drivable as is, and what needs to be fixed is:
- Brakes and rotors need replacing, badly
- Alignment is screwed up
- Lower shock mounts are damaged
- Fenders need to be fixed, cut, and modified
- Parking break line to the rear left side is severed. Likely by same rock that destroyed my wheel speed sensor and severed the ABS wiring harness
- Battery cage needs to be replaced.
- CBI swing arms need to be replaced/redesigned
- Pelfrey front bumper probably should be replaced, you can see that from so much shaking the metal may have been fatigued.
- Secondary air intake sensor/manifold needs replacing.
I can't stress this enough, there's NOTHING like Baja. It's absolutely brutal at the speeds we were running it. To give some context we shook the truck so hard the turn signals popped out of their plugs and were bouncing around inside the headlight housing.
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As much of a pain as it would be, you may be best off parting out a lot of the easily removable parts as opposed to selling it as a whole. Modifications tend to effect resale pretty minimally, even likely on a rig built like yours. Of course, you aren't going to sell off things like suspension, but things like drawers and such might be worthwhile, or even removing a LOT of the mods and trading it in on a new Raptor if you go that route.. Just some thoughts.. Not to mention, if it's pretty beat up after the trip, then it would be the dealers problem and not someone you sold to personally lol.
TX med
New member
I think the Raptor route would be awesome if it pans out. If you like the 4runner/SUV enough, a baja style 4runner would be awesome too. You know your situation best though. Either way, I hope you continue to stick around on the forum.
Did you have any idea going in, in regards to what the trip was going to be like? Idk if I would've raced a truck with heavy bumpers. Hindsights 20/20 though.
gm350reratliff
New member
I do agree that every mfg makes their lemons but I would give the Raptor a year or two to shake stuff out. I once owned an early 2012 f150 ecoboost and at first I liked it but mine started living up to the "Found on Road Dead" jokes. I know they're not all like that but that was the 2nd time getting burnt by Ford. I owned that truck just 2 years/45k miles but I finally had to cut my losses and trade it in due to the lack of Ford's ability to fix it (I didn't have time to pursue the Lemon Law) and we just couldn't trust the truck anymore.
I also looked at the new Raptors and man they are sweet. Ford definitely did their homework. It'll be interesting to see how the engine and trans and all the other new stuff holds up. I just kept having flashbacks to being stranded on the side of the road with the whole fam waiting for a tow truck. This time around I just wanted something, above everything else, that "I think" will be reliable.
hudhawk
New member
I read this and only one thing comes to mind, "Prep your shit!" Baja will chew you up and spit you out. Rad to see a Toyota on one of PABs trips. I've been thrashing this truck in Baja multiple times a year for the past 4+ years, my prep bill PRIOR to each trip down the peninsula is somewhere between $2000-4000, and that's not including labor as I do it myself.
Attachments
Throwback
New member
That's kind of my thought as well. Your rig is very well sorted for standard extended four-wheeling and represents a good chunk of money. If you were able to start over with the stock TRD Pro and were spending the same money in the end, how would you built knowing what you know now?
LawnDart
Senior Member
I spent about 1-2K prepping the truck. Everything was taken apart on the suspension, greased, bushings replaced, reinstalled, torqued, and witness marked. That gave me the confidence knowing I wasn't heading into Baja blind.
Honestly, I don't think I'd have chosen the platform. I think the 5th gen 4runner is an excellent vehicle, but to play in Baja it's just not the best choice. I think it's safe to say Baja is a lot like Moab, it's not a question of IF you'll do damage, it's how much.
Depends on the type of play and where. I mean, what you were doing was desert racing. That's a different animal. This is one of the things about the generic "off-roading" that bugs me. There's a wide range of styles/types that fall into that category. Off-roading like me in my near stock 4R poking around on trails, taking my sweet time and stopping to gawk at the scenery? Or what you just did? Off-roading is a wide gamut.
And off-roading in general, sorry but, it is an issue of when the damage hits and how bad. It WILL happen at some point. Even if you're taking it chill.
Ford built the Raptor specifically as a desert runner. Engineering matters. So those excelled in Baja. Not entirely shocking. It was built from the ground up with that specialized use in mind. The 4R .... it's a Swiss Army knife. It's not the rock-crawler a Jeep will be. It's maybe not the plush overlander that the Land Cruiser or Range Rover (lolololololol.... sorry) used to be. It sits in the middle somewhere.
I mean, hell, you got compliments from Curt Leduc. That's NOT bad.
If you really want to do more runs like that though and are hooked on that type of wheeling, I can totally get the pull towards the Raptor, or a similarly outfitted desert rig. I'd just say, take a good hard look at the direction you want to take things and chew on it.
LawnDart
Senior Member
I think the crux of the issue is that people make it sound like a vehicle like a raptor can't go where a Toyota can go. And frankly I think for my needs, especially in Oregon where it's mostly desert outside of the I5 corridor, are for a bigger truck.
It's all a moot point, since I have to repair my truck. The 4Runner did admirably, but it paid a price (actually I'll be paying that price) to keep up with those vehicles.
The one really good piece of advice I received was "everything that'll break will be aftermarket parts." Outside of the ABS harness and wheel speed sensor, that comment was right on the money.
Last I looked, a Raptor is smaller than the regular F-150. It's on par, size-wise with a 4R. Maybe a little longer. Now, a Raptor can't go where a Jeep can, especially the older ones. They're significantly smaller vehicles.
Yeah. Much of Oregon is desert, or close enough where it can be called that.
Good tidbit that I'll keep in mind for mine. I'm not there yet with the aftermarket parts..... so "safe" for now. lol
LawnDart
Senior Member
4Runner is 109" wheel base, Raptor is 130".
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