LBJ frustration...

[ShooterMcGavin]

I tackled this "simple" replacement this weekend. I soaked all nuts/bolts in PB blaster for 2 hours before going at it. The cotter pins were the worst. I had to drill all of them out and then use a punch to finish the job. The first side took me over 90 minutes just to remove the one LBJ.

I trashed the threads on one of the OTREs, but oh well. I'll get a new one.

Long story shorter...
I am from the east coast originally. When I do any suspension work on a car, I always coat the nuts and bolts with anti-seize before putting things together. I coated the 4 LBJ bolts and then went to torque them to 59 ft/lbs and SNAP! Not happy about that. Half of one of the bolts is now stuck up in the LCA-end.

I'm guessing I need to get a screw extraction kit, drill it out, and try to back it out. Is that the only real option? I need this to work; I am not interested in replacing the LCA. Any advice to make it work the first time? Should I add heat with a torch first?

After getting it out, if I can do it, should I clean all nuts/bolts with brake cleaner, to get the anti-seize off? I'm really leery of using those torque specs now, even though the other side went together ok.

Also, I had torqued some of the 4 bolts down to the full 59 ft/lbs before breaking one. Should I assume that I may have stretched those bolts out and just buy all new ones??

 

[animator]

Using anti-seize or any form of lubrication on a bolt that does not call for lubrication is an invitation to failure. Lubrication can reduce the felt torque by substantial amounts, and when you think you're at 50 fl/lbs you're actually at 90, etc.


But since it's broken, it's not likely to be under much tension. You should be able to drill it out relatively easily. If you can find some left-hand drill bits, drill them out that way, gradually stepping up in size, and staying way the hell away from the threads. Eventually, it may just spin out with the drill.


Otherwise, an easy out is the next best bet. I wouldn't worry about using heat on it, it probably won't be necessary.

 

[weekendclimber]

Just did both sides on mine a couple weeks ago and bought 8 new bolts. For $10, it was well worth not have to worry about the old ones breaking or what not. Also, they should have blue thread lock put on them so that they don't come out. FWIW, I think anti-seize is a bad idea.

 

[mycocobean]

Just did both sides on mine a couple weeks ago and bought 8 new bolts. For $10, it was well worth not have to worry about the old ones breaking or what not. Also, they should have blue thread lock put on them so that they don't come out. FWIW, I think anti-seize is a bad idea.

X2 supposed to be lock tited.

 

[weekendclimber]

I see you're in the PNW. If you're in the north Seattle area I'd be willing to give you a hand for a beer. It literally took me 5 minutes to pull apart each side on mine, though I have zero rust issues. I've got a set of easy outs too.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Using anti-seize or any form of lubrication on a bolt that does not call for lubrication is an invitation to failure. Lubrication can reduce the felt torque by substantial amounts, and when you think you're at 50 fl/lbs you're actually at 90, etc.


But since it's broken, it's not likely to be under much tension. You should be able to drill it out relatively easily. If you can find some left-hand drill bits, drill them out that way, gradually stepping up in size, and staying way the hell away from the threads. Eventually, it may just spin out with the drill.


Otherwise, an easy out is the next best bet. I wouldn't worry about using heat on it, it probably won't be necessary.

I think you are right about not needing heat.

Just did both sides on mine a couple weeks ago and bought 8 new bolts. For $10, it was well worth not have to worry about the old ones breaking or what not. Also, they should have blue thread lock put on them so that they don't come out. FWIW, I think anti-seize is a bad idea.

Yeah, I should have just used Lock-tite. I should probably take the other side apart too and put some blue stuff on them. I think I will buy new bolts, just in case I have over-torqued some of the others in the set.

Will spraying with brake cleaner be enough to clean off the anti-seize that is on there now??

 

[weekendclimber]

Will spraying with brake cleaner be enough to clean off the anti-seize that is on there now??

That should do it and a good wipe down after.

 

[kball]

Those bolts aren't very big and I think almost 60 ft lbs is too much. The manual calls for 37 although there are discrepancies in some manuals.

Personally, for that size bolt I think 37 ft lbs and locktite is all you need.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

Those bolts aren't very big and I think almost 60 ft lbs is too much. The manual calls for 37 although there are discrepancies in some manuals.

Personally, for that size bolt I think 37 ft lbs and locktite is all you need.

Actually, I agree. I might even go as high as 40 59 just seems too high.

UPDATE: Progress. I bought a $23 bolt extraction kit at an auto parts store. I used a center punch and made a good indent. I started with a smaller bit than I thought I'd need. When I went up to the next size drill bit (left-hand twist), the broken end of the bolt was already loose. I backed the rest of it out by hand and didn't even need to use one of the extractors. I cleaned up the LBJ threads and torqued that down. I'll buy new bolts and then the last task is cleaning out the existing threads in the steering knuckle. I'll take the other side apart again and install new bolts with Lock-tite.

 

[LittleCaesar]

I believe the 37ft/lb torque is for 2002 only, or at least that is what is found in that year's FSM. Every other 3rd gen year is 59ft/lb.

 

[kball]

I believe the 37ft/lb torque is for 2002 only, or at least that is what is found in that year's FSM. Every other 3rd gen year is 59ft/lb.

I'm thinking they finally fixed the typo in 2002!

 

[repo]

I think 39 ft lb is for ones with a boot protector insert like the 2002 fsm shows.

 

[Nelsonmd]

59ft/lbs shouldn't have broken the bolts even with lubricant in there. I think you had old bolts that had likely been hit with an impact gun at a shop during a previous service and had been yielded and probably had cracks in it. Shops never pay attention to torque specs and just hit all chassis bolts with an impact driver, severely overtorquing them; I've heard that same confession from multiple shops, they don't even bother hiding it.

IMO you should replace these bolts every time anyway, I mean really, they cost a whopping $10 at most for the set at a dealer; compared to the ~$90 per LBJ, $10 is nothing. These bolts are not high grade, they are spec'd to be stretched a little bit and have the proper pre-load/pre-stress, so re-using them over and over causes them to embrittle anyway through strain hardening. Throw in some corrosion, and you have a whole soup of embrittlement and other weakening factors, all on sub-$1 bolts. No reason not to replace them.

 

[LittleCaesar]

#90080-10066 for the bolt. I usually have at least four on hand in my garage at all times in case I have to undo a LBJ for new front end work. I treat them as a torque to yield (TTY) bolt, though they aren't.

I think the bolts for the LBJ for the 4th gen 4runner are torqued to 155ft/lb.

 

[Nelsonmd]

#90080-10066 for the bolt. I usually have at least four on hand in my garage at all times in case I have to undo a LBJ for new front end work. I treat them as a torque to yield (TTY) bolt, though they aren't.

I think the bolts for the LBJ for the 4th gen 4runner are torqued to 155ft/lb.

Totally different design. There are 2 much larger bolts on the 4th gen LBJ bracket. The 4th gen design is Toyota's correction of the LBJ failures seen on the 3rd gen.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

59ft/lbs shouldn't have broken the bolts even with lubricant in there. I think you had old bolts that had likely been hit with an impact gun at a shop during a previous service and had been yielded and probably had cracks in it. Shops never pay attention to torque specs and just hit all chassis bolts with an impact driver, severely overtorquing them; I've heard that same confession from multiple shops, they don't even bother hiding it.

IMO you should replace these bolts every time anyway, I mean really, they cost a whopping $10 at most for the set at a dealer; compared to the ~$90 per LBJ, $10 is nothing. These bolts are not high grade, they are spec'd to be stretched a little bit and have the proper pre-load/pre-stress, so re-using them over and over causes them to embrittle anyway through strain hardening. Throw in some corrosion, and you have a whole soup of embrittlement and other weakening factors, all on sub-$1 bolts. No reason not to replace them.

Thanks. I'll take your advice. New parts will be on the way. Considering OTRE and ITRE on both sides while I'm in there. Costs are adding up.