LCA Alignment Cam bolts seized

[Montego Murph]

Hey all,

I just replaced all the suspension and added a leveling kit, and decided an alignment would be a good next step.

They put it on the rack, checked it (I scored pretty badly in the red) but they weren't able to make any adjustments since the LCA caster and camber adjusters were seized on both sides. I was told that they have a "they break it, they buy it" policy, and they didn't want to risk breaking the bolts and then having to pay for them. I can't imagine why I couldn't just sign off on something saying "I will pay for the bolts if/when the break" but whatever.

My reading here tells me that the solution to this is cutting or grinding the bolts off (assuming cheater bars and air tools don't break it free) and/or replacing the lower control arms because the bushings get damaged during the forced removal session, and the bolt rust-welds itself to the sleeve inside the bushing.

I'm going to go with the 1A Auto pair, and hang on to the OEMs to rebuild in case there is a next time. Are there any better or worse bolts I should go with?

I have this wish in my head that I will be able to break the bolts free with strength and chemical magic, push them out, rub anti-seize all over everything, put it back together, and go back and try again for an alignment. I'm going to guess this isn't going to happen.

Just trying to get some direction here...

 

[99Runnr]

In the same boat, I would try penetrating oil an some heat. Do your best with traditional methods. I had one cam that was seized into the LCA, heat, oil, sledge hammers, 1600 ft lb impact, nothing would move the sleeve.

I got lucky though, I was able to pop the front "face plate" off the cam exposing the splined section. On the back side of the same cam, my impact broke the threaded portion off as well. You'll see it, an 18mm socket fit's over it. This left the cam piece still seized, but just short enough I was able to articulate it just right an pry it out of the frame.

So do your best at either breaking or removing the bolt's, an then report what you're up against. Cutting them isn't fun as I'm sure you know. I used 3 new quality sawzall blades on my cam before I realized I could possibly pry it out.

 

[Berty_K]

Oem hardware. See picture for part numbers.

I'd also recommend oem lowers if you can stretch your budget, but it seems like you've already made up your mind. I paid $300 for each side.

I was also told all my hardware was seized. I was able to knock out 3 of the 4. Only 1 was truly rusted in. I tried whacking it out with a hammer. No dice. Ended up having to make 3 total cuts. See second pic: body, and both sides of the bushing.

If you need to cut, I'd recommend a 6" Diablo Demon Carbide Tipped 8 tpi blade. One blade was able to make all 3 cuts. Dont go with garbage blades. The steel is thick and thes blades sliced through like butter. Less than 10 minutes for all 3 cuts.

Last tip, buy some antiseize and coat the hardware to prevent any future issues. It's so easy and it should prevent future issues.

 

[Montego Murph]

Berty,
This is great info. I must have just been reading one of your other posts elsewhere because I was looking around to see where I could buy those Diablo blades and figuring out how long I should buy. I am open to persuasion on OEM vs Aftermarket...

I'm sure it will make more sense to me when I'm under the truck instead of looking at photos -- why did you opt to cut the LCA instead of just the bolts?

 

[Berty_K]

Berty,
This is great info. I must have just been reading one of your other posts elsewhere because I was looking around to see where I could buy those Diablo blades and figuring out how long I should buy. I am open to persuasion on OEM vs Aftermarket...

I'm sure it will make more sense to me when I'm under the truck instead of looking at photos -- why did you opt to cut the LCA instead of just the bolts?

Thanks

You'll find many people here suggest to go with OEM LCAs. They're expensive, but the quality is unmatched. Based on what I've read on other people's experiences, aftermarket LCAs typically end up failing prematurely (the bushings in particular).

Aftermarkets only appealed to me because of the drastic price difference. I ultimately chose OEM because I plan on keeping this car for many more year, and dont want to do this job again.

I made 3 cuts because my toe ajustment bolts were SO rusted I couldn't swing the arm down to make the cut. I wanted to avoid doing this, but I couldnt find another workaround.

 

[RivMan]

I've had a lot of luck in the past using a Ball Joint Press to push the seized bolts out of the bushing without damaging anything. Luckily all four of mine came out without a fight this time, but on other vehicles the balljoint press worked where other instruments of force failed.

-Rob

 

[trey99ek]

I've been there. I had to cut mine out as well. This was perfect timing as a reminder. I need to take mine or and re antiseize everything before winter.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Morphyne]

I literally just went through this. Impact is useless bc the rubber in the bushing flexes this negating the impact effect of the tool. I beat the shit out of mine with a 3 lb hammer on one side with good results. But the other side the bolts came out fine but the alignment sleeved. l was seized. No pounding that. Demon carbide blade in the sawzall ftw. I used moog greasable alignment cam bolts with good results. I LOVE that they are greasable.







Also went with OEM LCAs off of ebay for $619 a pair. It's expensive but this is such a hard job you only want to do it once.

 

[Montego Murph]

I've had a lot of luck in the past using a Ball Joint Press to push the seized bolts out of the bushing without damaging anything. Luckily all four of mine came out without a fight this time, but on other vehicles the balljoint press worked where other instruments of force failed.

-Rob

I'm wondering if this would be a good first attempt. For some reason I'm really squeamish about removing the LCA's and i don't know why.

I mean, even if I do have to buy two brand new LCA's, other than having an alignment done afterwards and putting the new cam bolts pretty much in the same position as the old ones, there's not much to it, right?

Except for the sawzall part I suppose...

After this is the timing belt. Transmission fluid tonight though. I imagine I'll be posting all sorts of inane questions once I start that process...

 

[Berty_K]

I'm wondering if this would be a good first attempt. For some reason I'm really squeamish about removing the LCA's and i don't know why.

I mean, even if I do have to buy two brand new LCA's, other than having an alignment done afterwards and putting the new cam bolts pretty much in the same position as the old ones, there's not much to it, right?

Except for the sawzall part I suppose...

After this is the timing belt. Transmission fluid tonight though. I imagine I'll be posting all sorts of inane questions once I start that process...

I was super squeamish too. This was actually my first "big job." I've only done general maint (oil changes, new front brakes, etc). It's surprisingly easy if you have the right tools. Check out my build thread- I link to a DIY that was SUPER helpful.

 

[Morphyne]

I'm wondering if this would be a good first attempt. For some reason I'm really squeamish about removing the LCA's and i don't know why.

I mean, even if I do have to buy two brand new LCA's, other than having an alignment done afterwards and putting the new cam bolts pretty much in the same position as the old ones, there's not much to it, right?

Except for the sawzall part I suppose...

After this is the timing belt. Transmission fluid tonight though. I imagine I'll be posting all sorts of inane questions once I start that process...

I hesitated for a long time because of this. It was a huge PITA. but having the right tools and research takes a lot of the sting out of it. Although I dont think I would cut the LCAs. I would cut the cam bolts

 

[gaber6]

If you can get the bolts out, you can twist the LCA out without cutting or grinding. The metal mounting tabs will bend a little but if you are willing to try that, it'll save hours. They go right back in place once the replacements are in. I removed the rear bolts first and just tugged until the fronts came out.

 

[radlynx]

I hesitated for a long time because of this. It was a huge PITA. but having the right tools and research takes a lot of the sting out of it. Although I dont think I would cut the LCAs. I would cut the cam bolts

good luck with that if you can swing down the arms. i did the same thing, had to cut the arm. i bought an aftermarket lca - beck /arnley brand and it seems solid to me. i used the oem bolts too and anti-seized them all.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[Montego Murph]

I used moog greasable alignment cam bolts with good results. I LOVE that they are greasable.

Dumb question because obviously they *do* work... I like the idea of greasable parts like this, but with the hollow section, wouldn't this make the bolts some percentage weaker than non-greasable?

KC Murphy: Overthinking everything since 1972

 

[Berty_K]

Dumb question because obviously they *do* work... I like the idea of greasable parts like this, but with the hollow section, wouldn't this make the bolts some percentage weaker than non-greasable?

KC Murphy: Overthinking everything since 1972

This is exactly why I didnt go with them. They didnt seem as sturdy as the OEM bolts. No thanks.

Plus, I can grease them easily myself

 

[falkon240]

I replaced my LCAs a few months ago and went with the Moog bolts and cams.

Safe to say I wish I bought OEM.

Yes, Moog works, but doesn't have any of the alignment marks on the cam. So, you'd really need a machine to give it a proper alignment.

 

[Inv4drZm]

The hole through the middle doesn't concern me, most of the strength is gained on the material further away from the center axis. Tubing for example is still pretty strong compared to solid bar even with most of it's material removed.

I've heard of problems with the Moog bolts though, not as good as OEM but probably cheaper.

 

[07V8]

Those Moog alignment bolts are JUNK. Ran them for a week on the street and not only did the plates deform, they could not hold an alignment. Moreover, their design creates large stress risers on the edge of the threads near the flat part creating uneven bolt loading.

Rip them out and go back with OEM. Put a nice coat of anti seize on everything and you’ll be fine.

 

[Morphyne]

Dumb question because obviously they *do* work... I like the idea of greasable parts like this, but with the hollow section, wouldn't this make the bolts some percentage weaker than non-greasable?

KC Murphy: Overthinking everything since 1972

Actually, they seem to be more beefy than the stock bolts. They feel heavier and thicker. The grease hole is very small and I honestly cant see where even with heavy abuse that this would fail.

 

[Montego Murph]

OK, lemme ask this now...

Assuming I have an extra car to drive for a few days... what are the thoughts on retaining the OEM LCA's that I own and simply replacing the bushings with OEM parts? (Or somehow getting used ones and doing the same)

Of course this would require dropping them off at a shop, but that would have to be a more cost-effective alternative to replacing the whole unit.

It would also depend on being able to remove the LCA without cutting it up, I'd imagine....