leaking valve seals or...

[atipps]

Alright, so i just picked up a 99 4runner and everything was fine till i noticed a rough start, sometimes.. and the dreaded white smoke on a cold start. So i started researching and all the info i gathered pointed to the head gaskets being blown. So i took it in to a mechanic and they said it wasn't a leaking head gasket.. they pressure tested the heads and the coolant system. They said it's the valve seals that are leaking. the valve seals leak oil over night witch causes the smoke? they also said that the reason why my coolant was being sucked out was because i had a leaking cap.. Im concerned because if it was leaking oil the smoke would be black not white, right? They said it doesn't have to be an immediate fix and that its 17 hours of work! Im just concerned cause every day when i go to start the truck, white smoke and a little shaking.. Should i trust these guys? What do you guys think? Should i have somebody else look at it?

 

[Buckaroo]

White smoke on a cold start is normal due to condensation in the exhaust/cat until it reaches operating temperature. So - the exhaust color should clear by 30 minutes or so. The radiator cap is a very plausible explanation for slowly losing coolant.

If you had oil leakage past the valve seals (or oil in general in the combustion chamber), the exhaust color is typically described as blue. Black is generally associated with a rich air/fuel condition.

If you are worried about oil in the combustion chamber, take a look at the plugs. They would likely be fouled.

Lots of potential reasons for a rough idle. EGR valve stuck open is one......another has to do with the Idle Air Control (IAC). If the IAC is working properly, your idle should flare up to about 1800rpm at start-up and then return to about 750 rpm after a minute or so.

Good luck,

 

[Singtoe]

Your valve seals are probably bad. The rough start and heavy shaking is the plugs being fouled out bu oil. As soon as the plugs heats up and burns the oil away, it starts to smooth out.

Been here done that. Your engine might be sludged up. Look inside your valve cover though the oil fill cap. If it clean, you will be able to see the top of the cylinder head past the baffle. If you see sludge, then that is what it is.

The costly cure is to remove the valve cover, clean the sludge out, replace the valve stem seals and put back together.

The cheap cure is to use SEA FOAM. Dump on whole can in the oil and let it idle for 30 minutes or so. Change the oil. Then Add new oil and add another can of sea foam. Drive it around for 100 miles or so. Change the oil again. Add new oil and only use half a can of seafoam. Change this oil at the normal service interval.

 

[atipps]

Your valve seals are probably bad. The rough start and heavy shaking is the plugs being fouled out bu oil. As soon as the plugs heats up and burns the oil away, it starts to smooth out.

Been here done that. Your engine might be sludged up. Look inside your valve cover though the oil fill cap. If it clean, you will be able to see the top of the cylinder head past the baffle. If you see sludge, then that is what it is.

The costly cure is to remove the valve cover, clean the sludge out, replace the valve stem seals and put back together.

The cheap cure is to use SEA FOAM. Dump on whole can in the oil and let it idle for 30 minutes or so. Change the oil. Then Add new oil and add another can of sea foam. Drive it around for 100 miles or so. Change the oil again. Add new oil and only use half a can of seafoam. Change this oil at the normal service interval.

Just checke it out, looks pretty sludgy in there. Now that I got a for sure diagnosis can prolonging the fix cause more serious issues to come? Don't really have the funds at the moment.

 

[Singtoe]

Start changing your oil. The prolonging will continue to build the sludge up, blocking the oil pump screen and will lock up the motor. Which will even be more expensive to fix.

 

[Doc2012]

i agree with Singtoe, but with one difference.

When you're doing the SeaFoam treatment, get two cans. They're less that 10 bucks each. Dump one can into the oil. Run it. Run it. Run it. There have been people that have left the SeaFoam in there for more than 500 miles.

Take the other can, fill a plastic cup up with 6-8 ounces of SeaFoam. Take your PCV valve, and SLOWLY suck the SeaFoam out of the cup, into the PCV valve.

Your truck is going to be billowing white smoke, but it will stop.

I think it's funny because it looks like a smoke screen.....

take the remainder of the SeaFoam and dump it into your gas tank.

 

[BlackCat914]

White smoke on a cold start is normal due to condensation in the exhaust/cat until it reaches operating temperature. So - the exhaust color should clear by 30 minutes or so. The radiator cap is a very plausible explanation for slowly losing coolant.

If you had oil leakage past the valve seals (or oil in general in the combustion chamber), the exhaust color is typically described as blue. Black is generally associated with a rich air/fuel condition.

If you are worried about oil in the combustion chamber, take a look at the plugs. They would likely be fouled.

Lots of potential reasons for a rough idle. EGR valve stuck open is one......another has to do with the Idle Air Control (IAC). If the IAC is working properly, your idle should flare up to about 1800rpm at start-up and then return to about 750 rpm after a minute or so.

Good luck,

Umm, no it's not. And it's surely not from condensation in the exhaust. And if it was an EGR, he'd have a code for EGR performance.

 

[atipps]

Start changing your oil. The prolonging will continue to build the sludge up, blocking the oil pump screen and will lock up the motor. Which will even be more expensive to fix.

Since you already went through this how much did it take to fix?

 

[LittleCaesar]

If memory serves me correctly Singtoe took a couple of pics of his sludged up top end of his V8 last year and posted them.

The best is still the engine in the back of the Impala, Malibu, or Heartbeat of 4-door crap.

 

[Singtoe]

Since you already went through this how much did it take to fix?

If I knew what i know now before...

I would have seafoamed the hell out of first. The main thing is to dissolve the sludge back into a liquid and then remove it.

Once the sludge is gone, then you can deal with the varnish that is left on all the parts.

This is what is actually causing the smoking when you start it up. There is a build up of varnish and tar on the valve stem. It prevents the stem seal from keeping the oil away from the valve guide.

A tale tell guide to leaking valve seals is that it smokes very badly on start up (when cold). Smokes at long stoplights. There is an unusaul crusty build up in the spark plug and the plug is oil soaked.


So, Try using seafoam to remove the sludge, then continue to use seafoam to remove the varnish and tar. If it does not clear up with the next oil change, you will have to go into the engine and replace the valve stem seals.

 

[atipps]

If I knew what i know now before...

I would have seafoamed the hell out of first. The main thing is to dissolve the sludge back into a liquid and then remove it.

Once the sludge is gone, then you can deal with the varnish that is left on all the parts.

This is what is actually causing the smoking when you start it up. There is a build up of varnish and tar on the valve stem. It prevents the stem seal from keeping the oil away from the valve guide.

A tale tell guide to leaking valve seals is that it smokes very badly on start up (when cold). Smokes at long stoplights. There is an unusaul crusty build up in the spark plug and the plug is oil soaked.


So, Try using seafoam to remove the sludge, then continue to use seafoam to remove the varnish and tar. If it does not clear up with the next oil change, you will have to go into the engine and replace the valve stem seals.

So your saying the seafoam method can cure my problem completely? Or does it just clean the motor out before I replace everything?

 

[iowajosh]

White smoke on a cold start is normal due to condensation in the exhaust/cat until it reaches operating temperature. So - the exhaust color should clear by 30 minutes or so. The radiator cap is a very plausible explanation for slowly losing coolant.

If you had oil leakage past the valve seals (or oil in general in the combustion chamber), the exhaust color is typically described as blue. Black is generally associated with a rich air/fuel condition.

If you are worried about oil in the combustion chamber, take a look at the plugs. They would likely be fouled.

Lots of potential reasons for a rough idle. EGR valve stuck open is one......another has to do with the Idle Air Control (IAC). If the IAC is working properly, your idle should flare up to about 1800rpm at start-up and then return to about 750 rpm after a minute or so.

Good luck,

My cars always do blow white steam on startup. I don't think I drive far enough to work to get them hot enough to burn it all out.

 

[Singtoe]

So your saying the seafoam method can cure my problem completely? Or does it just clean the motor out before I replace everything?

Assuming that it is leaking valve stem seals and your motor is sludged up, it might cure the problem.

Verify the leak first looking at your plugs.

If they look like this

or

only one cylinder will be the culprit so they will all have to be checked.

If it is sludged up, use seafoam and keep seafoaming it for while.

If it doesn't cure the valve stem leak, it will clean the sludge out so that physical repair can be without having to deal with it.

I replaced all my Valve stem seals while the motor was in the 4runner. I used compressed air and made a tool to pop the valve keepers off.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/118588-long-term-update-v8-swap-up-date.html

 

[123GO]

Thats some serious sluuuudge!

Looks like a Quaker State engine...Damnnn dude!
What yr engine is that & how many miles Singtoe?

 

[02SE]

Looks like a Quaker State engine...Damnnn dude!
What yr engine is that & how many miles Singtoe?

My advice would be to not believe old wives tales. Quaker State is comparable to any decent name brand oil out there. It's made by SOPUS, the same company that makes Pennzoil, Shell Rotella, etc. Some high end exotic cars like Ferrari, spec Pennzoil oils.

I can tell you of a couple NHRA TF/FC Teams that uses a Quaker State oil in their 10,000+ hp race cars.

The old stories that speak of certain oils sludging up, are/were always down to poor maintenance, which is then blamed on a specific oil, because the person didn't know any better.

I've worked as an ASE Master Tech, and I've worked on and built/rebuilt way too many engines. Poor maintenance, not a specific oil brand, is always the cause of sludge

 

[Drcoffee]

Somebody had better mention that being too aggressive with seafoam in the oil can free up too much sludge, clog the oil filter and result in low oil pressure.

Another option is to use sea foam in the pvc port to clean the valves, valve stems and cylinders. Then use Marvel Mystery Oil MMO in the oil with each oil change (20%) to slowly disolve the sludge. Look, the sludge has been there for a long while. There's no reason remove it all in one day and risk the oil pump or oil flow. Sea foam will disolve the softer sludge too fast IMO. Opening up the valve cover and breaking it out will also free up solid crusty sludge to get into places you really dont want it to go. Be patient. With MMO in the oil it will help clean the carbon off the valve seals and if you use valvoline max life oil, it will help rejuvinate the rubber seals.
Changing the valve seals is an involved process because of the overhead cams. A little smoke in the morning wont hurt anybody. Give it a few months to clean the sludge out.

 

[02SE]

I'm assuming the OP has long since achieved a resolution. This is an old thread, which was resurrected to make an uninformed comment.

 

[Drcoffee]

I'm assuming the OP has long since achieved a resolution. This is an old thread, which was resurrected to make an uninformed comment.

I know that. I posted to this thread simply for the benefit of the next member who reads this thread with a similar problem.

 

[4RUNNERTMAN]

I know that. I posted to this thread simply for the benefit of the next member who reads this thread with a similar problem.

I always appreciate comments like this so thumbs up for posting your opinion.