LED or HID Bulb Swap

[CajunMikeR]

I've used the H9 modified to fit the low beam housing. It was only marginally better than the factory low beams.

We can talk all the theories and metering we want, but my eyeball testing shows that my XD HID lows are a major upgrade, with further throw and less shadows than stock. My XD LED high beams are the same, further throw and more usable light than stock. The direct replacement LED bulbs in my fogs and backups are brighter and have more usable light.

Perhaps it's time to get over the analysis paralysis and stating textbook answers to why it doesn't work perfectly in a perfect world, because it's still an improvement over the subpar factory lighting.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

Also, perceived bad things can actually be good things. Example, “washout” or what some would call excessive foreground lighting.

What creates an undesirable color washing in dry conditions (yellow lines look white, etc) is actually the same phenomenon (via light intensity and color temperature) that has the ability to light up wet pavement, so you can actually see that piece of black metal in the road on a rainy night. And not have to change a tire in that.


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[Too Stroked]

Why do you surmise the LEDs for main beams have only a two-sided chip arrangement?

Halogens and xenons, with 360 degrees of light, even in the most efficient reflector housing, lose most of that light. Looking at a reflector housing from the viewpoint of crouching in front of a car, the “ceiling”, the “floor”, and the “window” (lens) of the housing can automatically be written off, because they do not collect light. It is not useful to send direct light in these directions. The only light that should exit the lens of a reflector housing is reflected light. Also the bulb shield, which blocks direct viewing of the filament, does not reflect anything useful back onto the reflector, either.

The three remaining sides and “back wall” of the reflector bowl do all the work. Drop-in LEDs have BETTER light control because they ONLY fire light in directions that will make it to the road surface.

Let me paraphrase all the above - if you have crappy performance from a reputable drop-in LED that is indexed and aimed per instructions, you have crappy headlight housings. Whether it’s in the reflector design (OEM T4R halogen low beams) or an aging cloudy lens, its not the LEDs.

Let me address three different areas of your reply. As to your first question about why "drop in" LED manufacturers use the two sided blade arrangement, let me answer a question with a better question. If that arrangement works so well, why is it the not a single OEM vehicle offers LED lighting with it? Simple. Because it's not very effective.

As to your second point about halogen reflectors losing most of their light through the reflector, I'm going to answer that with another question. If that was actually true - which it is not - then why do the most efficient LED designs use what's called TIR (Total Internal Reflector) technology? Simple - because it's so much more efficient.

Finally, I will agree - partially - with your point that a properly aimed and indexed high quality drop in LED bulb has some chance of performing well. Taking the skills of the average backyard mechanic into account, what percentage of these blubs will actually be properly aimed and indexed? In my personal experience, probably less than 5%. Nobody should ever have to adjust a properly designed bulb in any way shape or form.

Again, just my personal opinions.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

Let me address three different areas of your reply. As to your first question about why "drop in" LED manufacturers use the two sided blade arrangement, let me answer a question with a better question. If that arrangement works so well, why is it the not a single OEM vehicle offers LED lighting with it? Simple. Because it's not very effective.

As to your second point about halogen reflectors losing most of their light through the reflector, I'm going to answer that with another question. If that was actually true - which it is not - then why do the most efficient LED designs use what's called TIR (Total Internal Reflector) technology? Simple - because it's so much more efficient.

Finally, I will agree - partially - with your point that a properly aimed and indexed high quality drop in LED bulb has some chance of performing well. Taking the skills of the average backyard mechanic into account, what percentage of these blubs will actually be properly aimed and indexed? In my personal experience, probably less than 5%. Nobody should ever have to adjust a properly designed bulb in any way shape or form.

Again, just my personal opinions.

I value everyone’s input here. My theories to answer some of the questions raised:

On why manufacturers don’t use retail LEDs… Gives them a chance to roll out a new part number with justification to raise the price even more. Many OEM LEDs are not replaceable. You have to replace the whole housing. They’d rather sell a $1500 complete unit than a $50 bulb they didn’t even make, and net $5-10 off it.

On reflectors and TIR… good luck getting any kind of street legal application as low main beam with TIR. They only make an appearance in vehicle applications as strictly off-road lighting. OEM housings with captive bulbs still use reflectors and rely on lighting differently positioned LED chips for lo/hi beams. TIR would require a mechanical projector hood or “eyelid” to work. Mechanical hoods exist (1st gen Chevy Volt) but TIR as main bulbs - show me.

On aiming and indexing… I think it’s safe to say that headlight housings should be at least checked (and aimed if necessary) with any bulb change. As for indexing, you have me there, on the principle that no other type of bulb CAN be indexed around its rotational axis. It is an extra step and possible failure point if not done or done incorrectly. OEM LED lights avoid this with fixed LED chips, and an increasing number of manufacturers are moving toward self-leveling systems, as well.

Cheers and hope everyone is doing well.


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[Pedro367]

Aside from modifying an H9 bulb to fit in our H11 slot, there are a couple of drop-in H11s that are in the same ball park: Tungsram Nighthawk Xenon and Osram Nightbreaker. They don't put out quite as much lux beyond 40ft as the H9, but they are pretty close. They are also whiter, if that is what you're after. There is also the option of retrofitting the stock housing with an LED projector.

People can run whatever they like. Most people don't know that their LED drop-in bulbs aren't as good as the stock halogens. They get fooled into thinking they are better with marketing and all of that extra foreground light. They also don't know that all that foreground light is going to become glare for on-coming drivers. Once they know these things, they can make the choice to A) have less light and be a dick to other drivers or B) try out something else.

So my "correct" options are two whiter halogens on amazon that are going to burn out after 3 months, stock halogen H9/H11 swap, or tear apart my headlight for a really expensive LED retrofit. So really just the H9/H11 swap that is marginally better and looks terrible. Even though my eyes tell me these are a huge upgrade and not one driver coming at me has told me my lights are too bright. Makes sense.

 

[mtn_climber]

Headlight bulb swap

Hi ssyota4runner.

There are quite a few threads on here and the Taco forum regarding headlight (and fog light) bulb swaps. Two very informative discussions are below.

Headlight comparison stock vs others

3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights | Tacoma World

I cannot speak for the majority of folks on here, let alone everyone. My own experience is mostly based on the in-depth analysis other folks have done, and some real world experience with both T4R and Hilux bulb swaps. Ultimately, I went with the H11 to H9 bulb conversation, and frankly I couldn't be happier. Leveraging a projector and lens designed to utilize a halogen bulb, upgrading the light source provides (to my, my spouse, friends'/colleagues' eyes) significant increases in both effective illumination and color - without impact to opposing drivers and personal eye fatigue. Additionally, while it looks like you might be from Alabama, if driving in snow or freezing rain is a possibility for you, the amount of lens heating caused by the bulbs should be taken into consideration.

Good luck with your changes, and look forward to seeing what route you go down for both interior and exterior choices!

 

[Too Stroked]

So my "correct" options are two whiter halogens on amazon that are going to burn out after 3 months, stock halogen H9/H11 swap, or tear apart my headlight for a really expensive LED retrofit. So really just the H9/H11 swap that is marginally better and looks terrible. Even though my eyes tell me these are a huge upgrade and not one driver coming at me has told me my lights are too bright. Makes sense.

I've got to ask. What do you mean when you say they "look terrible?"

 

[Xtremluck]

So my "correct" options are two whiter halogens on amazon that are going to burn out after 3 months, stock halogen H9/H11 swap, or tear apart my headlight for a really expensive LED retrofit. So really just the H9/H11 swap that is marginally better and looks terrible. Even though my eyes tell me these are a huge upgrade and not one driver coming at me has told me my lights are too bright. Makes sense.

We get it, you want an easy solution to a not so easy problem. Just like other things in life you get what you put into things. So if you are ok with a splotchy beam pattern with bright foreground lighting all good.

One thing to call out here though is doing a LED or HID projector retrofit is not as expensive or hard as you think. It cost me just over $400 and a weekend and the results were well worth it.

 

[Hans Moleman]

I'd say put HIDs in halogen projectors and blind everybody. It seems like 50% of people now drive with their high beams anyways.

 

[mrblah]

It's all relative.

I still use a candle in a lantern.... so anything is a big improvement.

 

[Pedro367]

We get it, you want an easy solution to a not so easy problem. Just like other things in life you get what you put into things. So if you are ok with a splotchy beam pattern with bright foreground lighting all good.

One thing to call out here though is doing a LED or HID projector retrofit is not as expensive or hard as you think. It cost me just over $400 and a weekend and the results were well worth it.

Fine on cost and I 100% agree it is a much better option, but tearing apart and potentially ruining my factory headlights is just not something myself, and I'm sure most others, are comfortable with or care to do. Also, it's not even that I want an easy solution. The solution I'm happy with just happens to be easy.

I've got to ask. What do you mean when you say they "look terrible?"

Did not want halogen "yellow" color bulbs. They look terrible on a cool new vehicle.

 

[2021nightshade4x4]

It's all relative.

I still use a candle in a lantern.... so anything is a big improvement.

Yes, deliberately keeping one’s self centuries, if not millennia behind modern times is a sure fire way to be impressed at most anything!


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[2021nightshade4x4]

Fine on cost and I 100% agree it is a much better option, but tearing apart and potentially ruining my factory headlights is just not something myself, and I'm sure most others, are comfortable with or care to do. Also, it's not even that I want an easy solution. The solution I'm happy with just happens to be easy.



Did not want halogen "yellow" color bulbs. They look terrible on a cool new vehicle.

Nobody ever said it was a good or safe idea to split your headlights. That’s a crude and inexact science not to be attempted for the first time on a new car.

The only reason I could EVER see justifying that is if someone was downright OBSESSED with having projector headlights, and there was no aftermarket for your vehicle at all.


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[Xtremluck]

Nobody ever said it was a good or safe idea to split your headlights. That’s a crude and inexact science not to be attempted for the first time on a new car.

The only reason I could EVER see justifying that is if someone was downright OBSESSED with having projector headlights, and there was no aftermarket for your vehicle at all.


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We should leave our trucks stock and never modify them for anything.