Lift Choice - The Why

[cutty01]

PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD
Like many of you when first deciding on a lift, I have been plowing through all the threads about lift recommendations for my 5th Gen. I read the Lift Guide and read threads that flat out said "..get this you won't be sorry..". However, I found very little information with detail on why someone chose a particular combination of suspension components. This thread is written to hopefully help someone with similar requirements go through the thought process. I also want input on my concluded components and/or correct any of my assumptions.

First I have to thank my good buddy who helped me think through my needs and for very patiently answered all my novice questions. Much of what is contained herein is from him. Thanks GB! And of course thank you to many of you who provide a wealth of information to noobies like me.

MY WISH LIST

• 95% on road
• The 5% will be going on back country roads for getting to camp sites off the regular path
• While I don't think I will attempt anything more than a 6/10 on the difficulty rating (rating guide from "Backcountry Adventures Northern California", I am scared of getting stuck in a hairy situation where I wished I had more than a stock setup
• I would like better off-road capability with little to no sacrifice of on-road stability and performance
• I would like minimal extra maintenance required (I think I read that Icon's and similar need rebuilds every 25~35,000 miles)
• I would like minimal extra wear and tear due to a lift
• I would like to fit slightly bigger tires, but mostly better handling tires
• Cost is not the primary factor, but due to the amount of time I will actually be off-road, I didn't want a solution that was many thousands of dollars.
• I would like to build a solid base and add/swap minimal components as my needs change (i.e. front bumper, towing, etc.)

SUBJECT VEHICLE
2013 4Runner Limited. No mods except a OPOR slider coming soon.

RIM AND TIRE SELECTION
Being told that wheels and tires will make the biggest difference in my off-road traction, I started here.

The Limited has very pretty 20" wheels with stock Bridgestone Dueler H/T 245/60R20. At first I thought I would get some TRD 17" or some TE 17" rims so I can fit a set of 265~285/70s on there, but then I forgot about my spare. Don't I really need 5 rims that are of similar size. So for now I am going to keep the stock 20" rims and focus on tire selection.

For tires, I have settled on BFG KO2. (I like Coopers too but they didn't offer the right selection that would fit the 20s). Looking at the Tire Fit thread, I am going to go with 275/55R20s. I can always go to the 17s if these don't work out. I think the profile will look similar to what is on this F150..

SHOCKS & COILS
This was the hardest choice and where I spent most of my mental energy. I do notice a big dip when braking hard, but the XREAS feels fine to me, the rear stock suspension seems fine, and I am OK with the forward rake.

Most everyone says that you can't go wrong with Icons. I was ready to pull the plug on a Stage 2 kit when I started hearing about the shock rebuilds and noise that goes along with a uniball UCAs. Supposedly this is not just with Icons but with any similar high performance lift kit. Also the Icon website recommends shin guards, yet another cost.

The other thing to consider was how much lift. I read if you go 3" or higher then there is increased wear and tear. Yes you can install a differential drop kit, but again another expense and there are differing opinions if a diff drop is actually helpful.

So for me it was down to the best low maintenance, reputable, and higher performing shocks with a mild 2" lift in the front and a 1.5" lift in the rear. I decided to go with:

• Bilstein 6112's in the front
• Bilstein 5160 shocks in the rear
• Keep the stock rear coils
• Daystar rear 1.5” spacers to lift the back and keep the forward rake when I load up the gear

Again, if I ever want to go bigger or add heavy bumpers I adjust the 6112 for higher lift and dump the spacer and get different coils in the back.

I hope the result will look like [thanks [MENTION=70138]T4RAZ[/MENTION]]...

SO NOW WHAT
Well that's my thought process. Maybe it will help someone decide what they should think about or even select the same setup if they have similar needs.

Before I pull the trigger and put in my order, I would like to hear from you if you have run this setup and/or you have critique (no slamming please). Also if you have a recommendation of a reputable shop in the Bay Area that can do the install and alignment please let me know.

I will post some pictures of how it turns out after the install.

Let's discuss.....

 

[jasonv]

for your needs (95% on road) its ludicrous to go with those shocks. keep it less expensive and go with bilstein 5100's. there is absolutely no justification to go with anything more IMO.

also the ko2's are fairly ridiculous choice as well, heavy and nosiy for mostly on road use. pick a P rated aggressive looking tire

 

[LandCruiser]

SFA conversion, hybrid Icon Stage 7 with air lockers and two speed low range t-case, 3" body lift with steering column spacer.

Tires, I'd totally go with bias ply filled with golf balls for balancing. They totally scare the bears off when you're crawling.

Get back to us with the results.

 

[tristero]

Unicorns live in this thread. True story.

 

[RedMagik]

I had Hankook Dynapro ATMs on my stock limited, no issues what so ever. Gave me all the traction I wanted all year round on or off road, was quiet on the highway as well.

 

[1engineer]

PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD
Like many of you when first deciding on a lift, I have been plowing through all the threads about lift recommendations for my 5th Gen. I read the Lift Guide and read threads that flat out said "..get this you won't be sorry..". However, I found very little information with detail on why someone chose a particular combination of suspension components. This thread is written to hopefully help someone with similar requirements go through the thought process. I also want input on my concluded components and/or correct any of my assumptions.

MY WISH LIST

• 95% on road
• The 5% will be going on back country roads for getting to camp sites off the regular path
• While I don't think I will attempt anything more than a 6/10 on the difficulty rating (rating guide from "Backcountry Adventures Northern California", I am scared of getting stuck in a hairy situation where I wished I had more than a stock setup
• I would like better off-road capability with little to no sacrifice of on-road stability and performance
• I would like minimal extra maintenance required (I think I read that Icon's and similar need rebuilds every 25~35,000 miles)
• I would minimal extra wear and tear due to a lift
• I would like to fit slightly bigger tires, but mostly better handling tires
• Cost is not the primary factor, but due to the amount of time I will actually be off-road, I didn't want a solution that was many thousands of dollars.
• I would like to build a solid base and add/swap minimal components as my needs change (i.e. front bumper, towing, etc.)

First off, very good write up! I appreciate the time you put in on it. Unfortunately, you have fallen into the trap so many others do.

There is a reason there is no definitive "If you do X then buy lift kit Y" guide. Let's take your wish list for example:
You are going to spend the vast majority of your time on the road.
When you do go off road it will be very light off roading. No rock crawling.
You don't want to mess up your on road performance.
You want maintenance free (or minimal) components.

What you just described and need is a stock 4Runner. Understand this: ANY modification you make to your vehicle will be a compromise in another area of your vehicle. If you do what you say above, you will:
*Raise the CG of your vehicle which decreases cornering ability
*Add weight which reduces efficiency and component life

all because you will go off road every now and then? You say you want to improve it so you don't get in a situation where you wished you had done the mods. If you spend a bit of money on recovery gear such as:
Hi Lift Jack
Ropes
Come Along
Max Trax
Sheaves
Snatch Strap

Get some decent AT Tires

Then you will be prepared and not scared. My point is a stock 4Runner will take you places your nerve won't. Recovery gear is more important than any mod.

That's why there is no definitive lift or modification chart. I mean, how do you recommend a lift to someone who does not need a lift? Now if you said you were going to be doing high speed desert running people would gladly talk about King or similar suspensions. If you said you were going to do Moab or the Rubicon then people would gladly talk about Icon stage 5, shin guards, LT rear kits and so on. For someone that is just traveling down the highway and the occasional dirt road then the most you need would be Bilstein 5100's and that would be mostly for looks. If, and that is a big if, you ever decide to add a front bumper then heavier springs is what you need, not shocks. Springs are pretty cheap and fairly easy to add. I hope this helps as I am not trying to beat you up. Suspensions are a compromise for specific applications. Your application is well suited for the stock 4Runner suspension.

 

[cutty01]

for your needs (95% on road) its ludicrous to go with those shocks. keep it less expensive and go with bilstein 5100's. there is absolutely no justification to go with anything more IMO.

also the ko2's are fairly ridiculous choice as well, heavy and nosiy for mostly on road use. pick a P rated aggressive looking tire

Valid argument. I was thinking this setup was similar to the TRD Pro and it would allow me to do more challenging trails as my experience grows.

Unicorns live in this thread. True story.

Do you say that because the Bilstein 5160s are hard to find or backordered?

 

[cutty01]

What you just described and need is a stock 4Runner. Understand this: ANY modification you make to your vehicle will be a compromise in another area of your vehicle. If you do what you say above, you will:
*Raise the CG of your vehicle which decreases cornering ability
*Add weight which reduces efficiency and component life

all because you will go off road every now and then? You say you want to improve it so you don't get in a situation where you wished you had done the mods. If you spend a bit of money on recovery gear such as:
Hi Lift Jack
Ropes
Come Along
Max Trax
Sheaves
Snatch Strap

Get some decent AT Tires

Then you will be prepared and not scared. My point is a stock 4Runner will take you places your nerve won't. Recovery gear is more important than any mod.

That's why there is no definitive lift or modification chart. I mean, how do you recommend a lift to someone who does not need a lift? Now if you said you were going to be doing high speed desert running people would gladly talk about King or similar suspensions. If you said you were going to do Moab or the Rubicon then people would gladly talk about Icon stage 5, shin guards, LT rear kits and so on. For someone that is just traveling down the highway and the occasional dirt road then the most you need would be Bilstein 5100's and that would be mostly for looks. If, and that is a big if, you ever decide to add a front bumper then heavier springs is what you need, not shocks. Springs are pretty cheap and fairly easy to add. I hope this helps as I am not trying to beat you up. Suspensions are a compromise for specific applications. Your application is well suited for the stock 4Runner suspension.

Thank you very much [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION], I see you referenced in other posts and you are one of the gurus on this stuff. I think I may have read a thread where you said, take your stock vehicle off-road a few times then make your decisions from there. Good advice, thanks for the constructive input.

PS - I have already made the investment on some hi-lift stuff (jack, winch kit, jack mate) and various straps to help me with recovery.

 

[phillyd2]

Thank you very much [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION], I see you referenced in other posts and you are one of the gurus on this stuff. I think I may have read a thread where you said, take your stock vehicle off-road a few times then make your decisions from there.

Always the best advice. Of course the jerk stole it from me :wink2:

When going off road and you hear bangs underneath then you know that a lift is in your future. If the roads you travel are bang free then stick with stock.