So I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a '17 TRD-OR Premium w/ KDSS. While doing research on here I keep seeing people mention the KDSS lean. I'm not worried about the lean as it seems unavoidable for the most part and hard to notice unless actually measuring while stock . My question is what should I be looking for in a lift since I have kdss, do I need spacers to minimize the lean since it seems to get much worse from what I am reading after lifting.
Lift w/ KDSS
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Vinsil
New member
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mrblah
Senior Member
1. lean gets more noticeable after a lift, but its still not really noticeable to anyone other than the owner, or if you point it out to people.
2. People avoid KDSS trucks not because of the lean, its because the install is a huge pain in the rear end.
3. lifts aren't really specific to kdss systems, unless it uses remote reservoirs (and mainly its due to clearance to the mounting brackets), then you either fab your own set of brackets or you buy a coilover w/ remote reservoirs with kdss specific brackets. Otherwise, get whatever you want. However, I'd double check with the retailer before you order.
I love my trail w/ kdss.
2. People avoid KDSS trucks not because of the lean, its because the install is a huge pain in the rear end.
3. lifts aren't really specific to kdss systems, unless it uses remote reservoirs (and mainly its due to clearance to the mounting brackets), then you either fab your own set of brackets or you buy a coilover w/ remote reservoirs with kdss specific brackets. Otherwise, get whatever you want. However, I'd double check with the retailer before you order.
I love my trail w/ kdss.
Sleeter
New member
I have installed lifts on both KDSS and non-KDSS 5th gens and the difference is not as huge of a deal as some would like you to think. Yes attaching the Front sway-bar is a PIA but i think the ride quality makes up for the 30min extra the install takes with KDSS. Full disclosure that extra 30min can be a ball buster.
My truck leans, NO ONE other than myself has noticed it.
My truck leans, NO ONE other than myself has noticed it.
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northcoast
New member
I also love my TEP w/kdss. Lots of winding, hilly roads here in West Virginia, and I like the lesser body roll (although I can't really compare to a non kdss since I didn't buy it here). I don't plan on anything other than leveling however.
wfo9
New member
Any coil over suspension can compensate for the lean. You will just need to adjust a few times before it all settles in. Worse case a small trim spacer in the rear might be needed.
The lean is mainly an issue for those with fixed coil lifts.
The install is where KDSS is a PITA. There are techniques to wrestle the sway-bar back on.. but it takes practice. Most people strip the bolts trying to put it back on. It's not anything like a regular sway-bar with links that just line up easy... the KDSS swaybar bolts directly to the LCA. Even at rest on level ground....There is tension in it.. A combination of straps, leverage, clamps, jack, helper is required. Each time I do one.. I think how much I never want to see KDSS again.. i still have not found the magic technique that works effortlessly (but I think I'm close)... If I had a business. I would charge at least 1.5x for KDSS lift install. It really slows things down and requires some experience with it. And if you strip out those LCA nuts.. you are SOL and have to resort to time certs.... I don't like working on things that don't want to go back together... It just feels wrong. The tension in the system is what causes the lean. I just wish Toyota would have spent the money and designed it with proper links... I'm sure people would have been fine paying a little more. I've heard the LC version is much more manageable, but never actually been under one to see it.
UPDATE to this post. It seems to have upset some folks and been interpreted as hyperbole... The bolts don't strip for everyone (but it has happened). The issue is not cross threading.. It's caused from using the bolts to pull the bracket into place. The threads are very fine and thin... Also, It might be possible to install a lift without removing the front swaybar on KDSS trucks. If this is true, I would highly recommend taking this approach and avoiding time spent trying to get the swaybar back on without damaging the LCA bolts that hold the KDSS swaybar on.
The lean is mainly an issue for those with fixed coil lifts.
The install is where KDSS is a PITA. There are techniques to wrestle the sway-bar back on.. but it takes practice. Most people strip the bolts trying to put it back on. It's not anything like a regular sway-bar with links that just line up easy... the KDSS swaybar bolts directly to the LCA. Even at rest on level ground....There is tension in it.. A combination of straps, leverage, clamps, jack, helper is required. Each time I do one.. I think how much I never want to see KDSS again.. i still have not found the magic technique that works effortlessly (but I think I'm close)... If I had a business. I would charge at least 1.5x for KDSS lift install. It really slows things down and requires some experience with it. And if you strip out those LCA nuts.. you are SOL and have to resort to time certs.... I don't like working on things that don't want to go back together... It just feels wrong. The tension in the system is what causes the lean. I just wish Toyota would have spent the money and designed it with proper links... I'm sure people would have been fine paying a little more. I've heard the LC version is much more manageable, but never actually been under one to see it.
UPDATE to this post. It seems to have upset some folks and been interpreted as hyperbole... The bolts don't strip for everyone (but it has happened). The issue is not cross threading.. It's caused from using the bolts to pull the bracket into place. The threads are very fine and thin... Also, It might be possible to install a lift without removing the front swaybar on KDSS trucks. If this is true, I would highly recommend taking this approach and avoiding time spent trying to get the swaybar back on without damaging the LCA bolts that hold the KDSS swaybar on.
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honda250xtitan
New member
Moar!
op2:op2:op2: Magic technique is.............i'm excited/apprehensive about the first time i tear apart the 4runner to install kings. i swapped my 5100's for fox 2.5's with resis in about 30 min on my titan. I also put stock LCA's, and stock shocks back on the truck (the titty) recently in about an hour. This whole KDSS thing though.....lol
Swede71
New member
Do some research and pick out what you need based on your exact requirements, everyone is different in needs. Based on research KDSS may take a bit more time for a lift however if done right you will have an awesome ride. Am counting down the days waiting for notice when everything I ordered has shipped so I can book mine in for full install of accessories. Hoping 3-5 weeks then will have some good feedback for you. 
Fantasyridge
New member
Do you need to disconnect the kdss system for only a 5100 install, or just when adding springs or spacers?
I have a 2016 TE with KDSS. I had the metaltech Radflo Lvl 6 kit + sonoran steel trac bar installed.
I was a afraid to do the work myself so I paid a local shop.
They over ran their initial install time estimates because they said they had to modify some of the brackets etc. So i'd just give a heads up to be prepared for shops to use kdss as an excuse to exceed estimates. Get quotes in writing and set maximums if you can. They did a good job and everything works but I learned a lesson.
If I could go back in time: If I were going to leave the truck stock I would definitely add KDSS because the cornering is far better in my opinion. Stock basic suspension felt like i was driving a boat. However, If I knew I were going to install a high end suspension when i purchased the truck i would not buy KDSS because it made everything more complicated and expensive, added another system which could break, and I think the high end suspensions can be set up or tuned to have comparable performance.
Oh, the KDSS hoses get in the way when you install sliders. Not a big deal but annoying.
Also I probably would have made a road trip to AZ and had the Sonoran guy set up my truck. I chatted with him on the phone and he seemed very competent.
I was a afraid to do the work myself so I paid a local shop.
They over ran their initial install time estimates because they said they had to modify some of the brackets etc. So i'd just give a heads up to be prepared for shops to use kdss as an excuse to exceed estimates. Get quotes in writing and set maximums if you can. They did a good job and everything works but I learned a lesson.
If I could go back in time: If I were going to leave the truck stock I would definitely add KDSS because the cornering is far better in my opinion. Stock basic suspension felt like i was driving a boat. However, If I knew I were going to install a high end suspension when i purchased the truck i would not buy KDSS because it made everything more complicated and expensive, added another system which could break, and I think the high end suspensions can be set up or tuned to have comparable performance.
Oh, the KDSS hoses get in the way when you install sliders. Not a big deal but annoying.
Also I probably would have made a road trip to AZ and had the Sonoran guy set up my truck. I chatted with him on the phone and he seemed very competent.
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DeepSea
New member
Lean, what lean? KDSS wouldn't cause that in any case. Here's mine:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PaUOahy7S8s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
and the build video:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bLOa-Pi4W1I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PaUOahy7S8s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
and the build video:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bLOa-Pi4W1I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Sleeter
New member
Yes.
cdiset
New member
I guess it depends on the lift. I have the exact same rig and installed 5100s all around and new rear coils for about a 2" lift, and KDSS was not an issue. BTW, I have no lean on mine.
4Running303
New member
Moar!
I just swapped my front for Kings as well. You do not need to disconnect the sway bar to swap the coilover. I just disconnected the outer tie rod end and the coilovers slid right out. Slid the kings right in! Now the rear, yes....that's a pain in the ass if you are swapping coils too.
mybabydaddy
New member
As most have pointed out already, it can go both ways... I did not have the time nor the proper tools to install mine, so I had a local shop do it. They did have to make some calls to get some verbal guidance (I believe they called Bilstein directly), but they got it done. As [MENTION=106176]wfo9[/MENTION] mentioned, it did take them a bit longer than it would have without KDSS. Regardless, it can be done. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have taken it to Tandem Automotive down in Fort Worth (they are off-roading Toyota specialists)... but the shop I used did a good job. I’ve had zero issues since install.
As for the lean, I had some before the lift, and have some after the lift. NO ONE notices/knows at all.... except me and the members on here... And at my age, I don’t give a shiote/don’t even notice it. I just drive the hell outta of her, cuz that’s why I own 4Runners.
As for the lean, I had some before the lift, and have some after the lift. NO ONE notices/knows at all.... except me and the members on here... And at my age, I don’t give a shiote/don’t even notice it. I just drive the hell outta of her, cuz that’s why I own 4Runners.
Sleeter
New member
[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] here is a great poll question. "How many of you have stripped your KDSS knuckle bolts during install?" I have a feeling we would find out its certainly not many and definitely not a majority.
