Limited vs Trail Premium

[HuskyHawk]

Forgive me for a newbie post. I have used search, but I'm looking for some subjective opinions. I'm comparing these two and want to know what I'm missing or not considering. Primary use is daily driver (short commute), but on badly potholed and broken pavement. I also need to climb a fairly rutted, steep dirt mountain road (often in snow or mud) to our place in Vermont. RX350 AWD has failed doing that a couple of times. No current plan to mod anything. Might someday try real off-roading as it looks like fun, but have never done so.

I've test driven the limited a few times and was impressed. I have a BMW 3 series, and the limited corners pretty flat for what it is, not much body lean (less than wife's RX350). X-Reas seems to work. Interior is nice. Like the front end. I'm not a big fan of the 20's however. Wish they were 18's.

Trail premium. Like that it is cheaper. Softex is fine. Don't know if infotainment screen is as big. Do not like the front end. Don't know if KDDS is the equal to X-Reas on pavement, and whether the tires will be more noisy and grip less on pavement.

I've also never had a manual RWD to 4WD vehicle, certainly the full-time system in the Limited is easier. I'm looking for any factors I may be missing or overlooking here.

 

[adam2562]

sounds like the limited is all you need.. unless you plan on lifting and adding bigger tires to a trail.. if ur rx350 had trouble.. most likely all you would have needed is tires.. so i would replace those on a limited and call it a day. you'll be happy with it

 

[T4Trail]

i would go with a limited to cover your needs. Limited has a lot more extras that you wont be needing.

 

[wanderMT]

Tires would probably make the difference on getting up the mtn. road. Nephew is service manager at exclusive Toyota independent shop. His advice was to avoid both suspension systems due to expense to repair or remove - but can't avoid Xreas if you want AWD and gadgets on the LE.

 

[1engineer]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/186247-5th-gen-features-models-differences.html

 

[Orc]

Sounds like a limited would fit you well. It has the two speed case for that road and atrac. I would think stock tired would make it up with 4lo and atrac on.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Thanks guys. I think you confirmed what I believe. I like the 4Runner a lot. Drove a GJC, which is what every auto reviewer says someone like me should buy. Reliability stinks, and it is jittery on the highway. Backseat is too low in he Jeep too.

Our RX350 has Duelers, like the limited does. AWD system is lousy, it struggles in my (steep) driveway in snow, where the 328xi climbs it with ease. I don't think more than 20% ever goes to the rear. Ltd 4Runner with stock tires should still get the job done. I really do like keyless entry, start and the other niceties in the Limited and full time AWD seems better suited to snow.

 

[tobyson21]

Some feedback

I used to have an RX350 on stock tires. It wasn't great in snow. It needed to be coaxed up my folks driveway a couple times (coincidentally, my fathers 535xi made it out fine).

I have a 2014 LE. Its stock tires I kept on for exactly 1 snow event. They were not great. The stopping distances were bad. The traction was unpredictable.

I put Blizzaks on the 20's and since then, the truck has been a beast in snow and ice. Well worth the money!

The RX350 on stock tires, to me, was actually a little better on snow and ice. It was more predictable in my opinion. The 4runner is a heavy truck. It is helped by some bite in the tires when the going gets slick.


Hope that helps!
Todd

 

[Marcocopuffs]

Thanks guys. I think you confirmed what I believe. I like the 4Runner a lot. Drove a GJC, which is what every auto reviewer says someone like me should buy. Reliability stinks, and it is jittery on the highway. Backseat is too low in he Jeep too.

Our RX350 has Duelers, like the limited does. AWD system is lousy, it struggles in my (steep) driveway in snow, where the 328xi climbs it with ease. I don't think more than 20% ever goes to the rear. Ltd 4Runner with stock tires should still get the job done. I really do like keyless entry, start and the other niceties in the Limited and full time AWD seems better suited to snow.

Hoping not to stir the pot... But wouldn't a part time 4x4 do the same in the snow? Someone please school me.

 

[Jetboy]

Doesn't your RX have a center diff lock? Ours does and it's pretty decent in the snow/mud. Not like my 4runner, but OK. Sadly I do think or IS250 was probably a bit better as long as it had enough clearance.

The deal killer for me on the LTD was the rear seats don't fold flat. The rear seat/cargo area is significantly different between the two. The LTD is the same rear setup as the GX460 (which I also cross shopped). It amounts to about 10" higher deck height when laid flat than what you get in the Trail Premium. For us it's a utility vehicle and with no kids it spends 99% of the time with the rear seats folded down to haul everything from skis to lumber to furniture. We also use it as an expedition type vehicle a few weeks a year. For these reasons, the seats in the ltd were a big part of the decision to go with the Trail Premium.

OTOH I'd love to have a smart key and that's only for the limited.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[Jernik]

Based on the winters and road conditions your commute likely entails, I think the Limited AWD would best suit your needs, and should be capable enough to make that trip to Vermont. Might need some better tires to make that hill easier when snowy/muddy, but it should make it.

The only drawback (from a capability standpoint) I could see going with the Trail would be manually engaging/disengaging the 4x4 system on roads that are patchy - part snow/ice covered, part wet/dry. With the AWD you wouldn't have to worry about forgetting to engage or disengage 4x4. Not a big deal, but something to consider - especially if the spouse is not one to think about the 4x4 system until already in the ditch.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Doesn't your RX have a center diff lock? Ours does and it's pretty decent in the snow/mud. Not like my 4runner, but OK. Sadly I do think or IS250 was probably a bit better as long as it had enough clearance.

The deal killer for me on the LTD was the rear seats don't fold flat. The rear seat/cargo area is significantly different between the two. The LTD is the same rear setup as the GX460 (which I also cross shopped). It amounts to about 10" higher deck height when laid flat than what you get in the Trail Premium. For us it's a utility vehicle and with no kids it spends 99% of the time with the rear seats folded down to haul everything from skis to lumber to furniture. We also use it as an expedition type vehicle a few weeks a year. For these reasons, the seats in the ltd were a big part of the decision to go with the Trail Premium.

OTOH I'd love to have a smart key and that's only for the limited.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

Not sure I get this. Seat folding is the same in all models, except Train can't have third row. If I get a Ltd. with no 3rd row (deeper cargo hold) it would identical to a Trail I believe. It does fold flat if you get the third row, but you lose 5-6 inches in depth. Since I will rarely fold the second row, I want the bigger normal cargo area.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I used to have an RX350 on stock tires. It wasn't great in snow. It needed to be coaxed up my folks driveway a couple times (coincidentally, my fathers 535xi made it out fine).

I have a 2014 LE. Its stock tires I kept on for exactly 1 snow event. They were not great. The stopping distances were bad. The traction was unpredictable.

I put Blizzaks on the 20's and since then, the truck has been a beast in snow and ice. Well worth the money!

The RX350 on stock tires, to me, was actually a little better on snow and ice. It was more predictable in my opinion. The 4runner is a heavy truck. It is helped by some bite in the tires when the going gets slick.


Hope that helps!
Todd

Ok, this is a bit discouraging. I know all about the merits of snow tires, but I have no place to put them and don't want to run them on what are dry roads 98% of the time even in the winter. If you mean something more aggressive than Duelers, ok, maybe, but there are few choices on the 20" rims and I don't want a lot of tire noise. I have poor hearing as it is and excessive tire noise essentially makes me incapable of conversing in a vehicle.

Our Lexus is a 2007, no locking center diff, a Viscous Coupling. My experience has been it struggles to shift power right left as well as front to back. If right front and right back spin, nothing goes to left front and back. My little BMW is much better in the snow (up to it's ground clearance) than the Lexus. Potholes are freaking killing me though.

 

[Jetboy]

Not sure I get this. Seat folding is the same in all models, except Train can't have third row. If I get a Ltd. with no 3rd row (deeper cargo hold) it would identical to a Trail I believe. It does fold flat if you get the third row, but you lose 5-6 inches in depth. Since I will rarely fold the second row, I want the bigger normal cargo area.

I have never seen a limited with the fold flat seats like those in the trail/sr5 without the 3rd row. The seats where the bottom folds forward against the back of the front seats and the seat back then drops forward. Possibly they exist in other markets?

 

[Engineer]

Ok, this is a bit discouraging. I know all about the merits of snow tires, but I have no place to put them and don't want to run them on what are dry roads 98% of the time even in the winter. If you mean something more aggressive than Duelers, ok, maybe, but there are few choices on the 20" rims and I don't want a lot of tire noise. I have poor hearing as it is and excessive tire noise essentially makes me incapable of conversing in a vehicle.

Our Lexus is a 2007, no locking center diff, a Viscous Coupling. My experience has been it struggles to shift power right left as well as front to back. If right front and right back spin, nothing goes to left front and back. My little BMW is much better in the snow (up to it's ground clearance) than the Lexus. Potholes are freaking killing me though.

The merits of snow tires cant not be replicated or replaced by 4x4/AWD. I know you said you have no place to put them but I would consider re-evaluating that choice if your main concern is getting up a hill covered in snow/slush/ice. As a side note unless you get the trail with a locker the part time 4x4 and the AWD when locked only distributes power front/rear. The front and rear diffs are still open so it will go the path of least resistance. As others have mentioned ATRAC will help there but my point is I would bet the biggest factor in making it up a hill in those condiitions is tires vs. what type of car or truck it is.

I reccomend you buy the 4runner , and see how it does. If you need tires, buy tires.

 

[dhylander]

Ok, this is a bit discouraging. I know all about the merits of snow tires, but I have no place to put them and don't want to run them on what are dry roads 98% of the time even in the winter. If you mean something more aggressive than Duelers, ok, maybe, but there are few choices on the 20" rims and I don't want a lot of tire noise. I have poor hearing as it is and excessive tire noise essentially makes me incapable of conversing in a vehicle.

With the 20" rims there are almost no stock size alternatives for tires. There are a lot more choices if you go up to 275/55/20 which will fit on fine, but are not recommended by tire manufactures for use on the 7" rims of the Limited. There are many on this forum that have done so, and me included, although I pulled the 20's off and went to 17" rims to give more side wall. I like you travel up the pot holed, broken pavement, and logging roads in Vermont and thought that the 20" rims would be damaged in that environment.

If you are looking for a reasonable year round AT tire that is good in the snow, I'd suggest the Nokian Rotiiva AT. I put a set of these on my wife's Rav4 and am very impressed with their performance in snow, and she did not notice any increase in noise. I put Cooper AT3's on my Limited, which do fine for me in most situations, but the Nokians have the edge in icy and snowy conditions.

 

[M1911]

You don't need to stick with 20" rims. Get a set of 17" or 18" rims and some Nokian snow tires.

There is no substitute for snow tires in the winter. They will turn and brake about 30% better than all season tires.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The merits of snow tires cant not be replicated or replaced by 4x4/AWD. I know you said you have no place to put them but I would consider re-evaluating that choice if your main concern is getting up a hill covered in snow/slush/ice. As a side note unless you get the trail with a locker the part time 4x4 and the AWD when locked only distributes power front/rear. The front and rear diffs are still open so it will go the path of least resistance. As others have mentioned ATRAC will help there but my point is I would bet the biggest factor in making it up a hill in those condiitions is tires vs. what type of car or truck it is.

I reccomend you buy the 4runner , and see how it does. If you need tires, buy tires.

How much better would the AT tires on the Trail be compared to the highway all seasons on the Limited? My biggest complaint about the Limited comes back to the oversized 20" rims and lousy tire selection for them.

 

[Engineer]

How much better would the AT tires on the Trail be compared to the highway all seasons on the Limited? My biggest complaint about the Limited comes back to the oversized 20" rims and lousy tire selection for them.

I don't think there is a answer for that sorry, maybe "a little" better but what that means I don't know. I didn’t even realize the stock tires on the trail were considered AT's :/

If you like the features and overall look of the limited I would get that and then change wheels/tires vs. buying the trail and wishing you had pushbutton start, vented seats, memory seats, true leather interior, climate control etc. Also gives you a chance to get better tires then what come standard as no OEM aside from high performance cars going to put world class tires on their vehicles.

 

[M1911]

How much better would the AT tires on the Trail be compared to the highway all seasons on the Limited? My biggest complaint about the Limited comes back to the oversized 20" rims and lousy tire selection for them.

Better for what? They aren't snow tires.

Get a Limited. If you only want to run one set of tires year round, then find someone with an SR5 4Runner or Tacoma who likes bling and swap your 20" wheels and tires for his 17" or 18" wheels and tires.