Long brake pedal travel

[Jeremy03Sport]

Anyone experience any brake pedal travel issues? Anyone try bleeding brakes, but still have troubles with soft pedal? A friend of mine mentioned he knew someone that brought their vehicle into the shop, hooked up the computer to activate the anti-locks and pump up the system, which gave them back a couple inches of pedal travel.

Guess I'll try bleeding and see if that helps.

 

[greasefingers]

How many miles on her? With an 2003 model you could be close to needing new pads.

 

[GSGALLANT]

You talk about soft pedal and long travel. Does the pedal actually feel soft, or do you just get longer pedal travel (without the spongy feeling.) If your brakes feel solid, but the travel is longer than it used to, your rear brakes may need to be adjusted. Try tightening up the rear brakes using the star adjusting wheels until you feel a bit of rotation resistance when you spin the rear wheel by hand, then back the adjusting wheel off a couple of clicks. The goal is the get the shoes as close to the drums as you can without them actually touching. (Do a search on this if you need help.)

If the pedal does feel spongy, then look at bleeding your brake system.

 

[sharp4runr]

From his name I assume he has a 2003, which doesn't have drum brakes so I don't think that is his issue.

I agree with bleeding the brakes. You've got 3 year old brake fluid in the lines and they may have absorbed some water causing a "spongy" feeling. I'm still using the original fluid and the brakes still impress me everytime I have to do a sudden stop. This thing probably had better brakes than my Celica.

 

[GSGALLANT]

From his name I assume he has a 2003, which doesn't have drum brakes so I don't think that is his issue.

Yep! I guess I'm paying attention. :dammit: Thanks, Sharp4runr.

As far as water is concerned, that would only make the brakes feel spongy when they get hot enough to cause the fluid/water mixture in the calipers to boil. (liquid water is still as in-compressible as brake fluid [but a lot more corrosive, which is another reason to flush your fluid periodically]... it's the steam when the fluid/water mixture boils that is compressible and causes loss of braking.) Still a good thought, but we need specifics on when the brakes feel spongy. All the time (even the first couple of times you apply the brakes in the morning)? Only on long downhill grades which require lots of brake usage?

Regardless, I agree that it's time to flush the system with new fluid if the original stuff is still in there. I do mine every 25000 miles or so. Cheap insurance, I guess.

 

[Koz]

Are you under warranty? Hope you don't need a master cylinder. Check the pads and replace if needed. Change/flush the fluid, bleed the brakes and see what happens.

Koz

 

[Jeremy03Sport]

Truck has 53,000 miles. I inspected pads about 10k miles ago and they still had quite a bit of pad left. I was told worn pads wouldn't affect pedal travel. Is this true? I'm not sure if spongy is the right term to use. I jump in a newer vehicle or even my old camry and the brakes are grabbing as soon as you touch the pedal. In the 4 runner, it seems like I'm pushing a few inches before I can really feel them grab. Air in the lines or worn pads? Both are easy fixes. Just prefer to not change the pads yet if they don't need to be changed.

 

[GSGALLANT]

OK... when your brakes do grab, does your pedal feel solid (if you keep trying to push the pedal down lower)? Try it with the truck not running. Pump your brakes a few times to get rid of the vacuum in your booster. If there is no air in your system, your pedal should feel right solid when you apply the brakes (you may still have the same travel, though).

For a 4 wheel disc system, pedal travel shouldn't change with wearing pads.

There are specs for minimum pad thickness. Don't just change them if you don't need to. For my 3rd gen front brake pads, the min spec for pad thickness is 1mm. Not sure about your 2003, but somebody with the FSM should be able to give you the specs.

Good luck.

 

[Jeremy03Sport]

Pulled the wheels off tonight and found an issue with right front brake. All other pads aren't bad, worn about 50%. Pulled the right front and there's about 1/16" left of pad. Looks like I could have an issue with the caliper. Looks like I might get to make good on the warranty. I'll start a new thread on this issue. Thanks for the comments.

 

[Koz]

When the pads wear the fluid level drops and can sometimes affect the pedal travel.

koz

 

[ObeseFieldMouse]

when i bought my 03 4runner from carmax, the brakes absolutely sucked...they put new pads on it, and the pedal came wayyyyy back up to a comfortable area. Its not soft anymore like it was...it was bad enough that i wasnt going to buy it if they didnt fix the brakes...

hope that helps

 

[Toy-Man]

I've got this same problem. The dealer says there is nothing wrong, (basically- get used to it). I disagree.

I found this TSB #BR004-06 on ALLDATA that may be useful.

Its relates to 4runners 03-05 and is entitled" Inconsistent or Unusual Brake Feeling"

Intro to TSB states: "Some customers may experience a slightly lower brake pedal feel intermittently. A new brake pad anti-squeal shim, service part # 43512-60151, has been developed to address this problem."

Not sure if the description fits exactly but I am going to see about getting this part and installing it myself anyway. I won't let the dealership touch my truck anymore.

Sure hope this helps.

-Toy-Man-

 

[greasefingers]

I would do a brake job and possibly add the new & improved shims, if I had any decent mileage on her.

 

[Toy-Man]

greasefingers,

My thoughts as well. My 4R just turned 60,000 KMs a few days ago, (about 40K Miles). I ordered the new shims and got them to add a set of new pads. Might just as well go all the way.

The shims cost about $30 pr Cdn at my dealership
Pads (front) are about $70 Cdn.
I will pick them up on Monday, 12 June and maybe install that evening or the next day.

Hope that will fix it. I will let you know what happens, if anything.

-Toy-Man-

 

[greasefingers]

Here is a link when I did my brake pads. I have since then replaced the rotors and pads. It is my belief that the ceramic pads thermally warped my rotors. I will only use Toyota pads in the future. They are made of great materials, IMO.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11793&highlight=brake

 

[Toy-Man]

greasefingers, et al,

Thanks for the link on changing out the pads, it came in handy., My new pads came with instructons in about 12 different languages, however, tghe pictorials and writing was really small and had to read with my fading eyes, but that's another story.

I swapped out the old antirattle shims for the ones specified in the TSB (part# 04945-35120) and installed new pads -OEM ( part# 04465-35290) I have just over 61K Kms on the truck now so I figured I would be doing a brake job at in about 15 - 20k Kms down the rod anyway, so might just as well do it now.

Total cost here at Dealer in Ottawa was $142.70 CDN including taxes.

It took me about 2 1/2 hours but I was in no a hurry, could have done if faster but the "antirattle w/hole pins" (that's what they are called in the manual - the two pins on each caliper that have to be removed to get at the old pads) were really stubborn to get out so took my time.

I totally removed the caliper on the left - driver's side as you had suggested, greasefingers, in order to retract the 4 pistons using a "C" Clamp before inserting the new Pad/Shims combination. On the right side I found that I could get my "C" in place without fully removing the caliper, just loosened it a bit so I could more easily remove and insert the pads - learn as you go. so the right side went faster than the left.

I also learned to take a couple of wheel lugs and tighten on the hub to hold the rotors in place. I found my rotors wanting to slip down on the hub with these lug nuts making it difficult to get the new pads seated properly. So I recommend hand tightening a couple of lug bolts on the hub to make things go earier.

The big question, was it worth it? I found that my brake pedal response has raised up about 1/2 inch maybe more and definitelyseems more reonsive much like how it was when I first drove of the lot in '03.

My old anti-rattle shims (the inside ones particularly) had deteriorated quite badly, this may have been causing the problem. The brake pads had 4-6 mm of good surface left but it made sense to change them out while I was in there.

Tomorrow I will bleed the brakes and replace the brake fluid but I doubt that I will see any additional improvement in the brake paedal travel

I will also adjust the emergency brake since I will no doubt be under the truck for some reason or other.

Cheers -Toy-Man-

 

[greasefingers]

What ticks me off is the fact that they use some type of rubber coating on the anti-squeal shims. And this coating wears off, probably from heat. So my shims were half coated when I replaced my pads.