Long Wheel Travel

[t-man]

Then I was thinking allpro lt for the front. Unless I could get [MENTION=95421]Troymclure[/MENTION] to help me with his custom built ones. Cut off stock coilover mounts. Make new ones with 14" ori struts.
$2650 for the rear and... Like $7k for the front. :gulp:

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

 

[Troymclure]

Then I was thinking allpro lt for the front. Unless I could get [MENTION=95421]Troymclure[/MENTION] to help me with his custom built ones. Cut off stock coilover mounts. Make new ones with 14" ori struts.
$2650 for the rear and... Like $7k for the front. :gulp:

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

I wouldnt buy the allpro kit. Not worth the money. If youre gonna drop that much on the front, go with the camburg, or total chaos if not camburg. Camburg definitely has the best front kit, and actually cycles the advertised numbers. Total chaos doesnt get the advertised numbers without some work. I can help with a kit though too, not sure Im ready to make one, but I can help you build one. Still havent gotten axles in for the front, mostly an issue with money. Need some custom shafts, which get expensive. If I were to do it again, I wouldve built it only 3.5" wider, so I could just buy axles

 

[techno]

I've often wondered why we don't see many horizontal shock or coilover designs in long travel setups. Although I haven't researched it in any great detail, it seems like a good option for vehicles with limited vertical space for extended towers.

 

[Tooltime19]

Out here in the desert southwest, the Off Road racing scene is a big deal. Fast desert rigs haulin thru the desert, thru the woods up and over the mountains to Grandmothers house we go. Back in the 70's early 80's the best way to build a fast desert truck was to build a 2wd. It of course had its disadvantages, such as the inability to go snow wheeling, tromping thru the occasional mud we see, and slowly driving thru rough rocky terrain, or sand dunes which we have a plenty. It wasnt until the late 80's and then the 90's that IFS, Twin Traction I-Beam 4x4's became notable with high technology made for some fast and very capable desert rigs. That for us was the hot ticket. Now we can go wheeling year around, and not sacrifice because of slow clunky leaf sprung 4x4's, or a 2wd. So we have become spoiled with our 4x4 street rigs. And our T4's are a great candidate. I can get a real, well working, finely tuned true 14" front travel and a 15" rear travel useable daily driver....I will take that any day. They handle great on road as well as awesome off road. And all with four passengers and a/c...Its worth the money, but only if you are in to that type of wheeling.

 

[Tooltime19]

What's your ultimate goal?

Personally, I'd never spend $5500 on the that rear setup. Maybe it'd make sense if my front was also capable of that much travel, but it's not. Maybe for another 6 or 7 grand it might be.

Anyway, I think if I was spending that kind of money I'd just do lockers and gears front and rear and be done with it. That much travel is useless if the tire that is dropping stays unloaded. It'll do no good to send power to it. Then again, maybe you like desert pre runner type of stuff.

Total Chaos, Icon, and Camburg all have up to 14" wheel travel systems available for the front, and the cost is more than the rear cantilever system.
Yes, I agree, the front and rear systems do cost a pretty penny. Although these arent Trophy Truck which cost close to a million dollars, for the money, it will bring our T-4's to life. But thats not all. We have all seen too many videos of folks crashing their rigs of every manufacture due to excessive speed, lack of talent and mainly, under equipped chassis setups on their respective rigs. When a person put a professional system on a rig, the rig does become safer actually. But everything has a limit. Ive been a professional driver coach for well over twenty years. One of the biggest things I try to teach, is patience and that every vehicle has limits. No matter if you are driving a brand new Corvette Z06, a Charger SRT8, or highly modified desert truck. Yet, once you finally drive a long wheel travel rig, you will be hooked for life...

:cheers::cheers:

 

[t-man]

I wouldnt buy the allpro kit. Not worth the money. If youre gonna drop that much on the front, go with the camburg, or total chaos if not camburg. Camburg definitely has the best front kit, and actually cycles the advertised numbers. Total chaos doesnt get the advertised numbers without some work. I can help with a kit though too, not sure Im ready to make one, but I can help you build one. Still havent gotten axles in for the front, mostly an issue with money. Need some custom shafts, which get expensive. If I were to do it again, I wouldve built it only 3.5" wider, so I could just buy axles

I think 3.5" would be my max. Trails are to tight around here. I was thinking of only 2" too. If I stuck with one of those I could just buy the axle piece and be good to go there.
What did you do to build yours? How did you come up with correct numbers? Or am I over thinking it?

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

 

[Troymclure]

I think 3.5" would be my max. Trails are to tight around here. I was thinking of only 2" too. If I stuck with one of those I could just buy the axle piece and be good to go there.
What did you do to build yours? How did you come up with correct numbers? Or am I over thinking it?

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

I basically just took a stock arm, cut it in half, and carefully measured the amount I wanted to extend it, and welded a tube in there to make an arm the right width I needed. Then I took that arm, and built a jig to hold the bushings and balljoint in the right place. Then took plate and filled in the jig, using new bushings and the cut off ball joint holder (dont know what its called) from a stock arm.

Then for the uppers, the same principal applies, but I moved the upper uniball over about an inch (I had to do trial and error, with cycling the the suspension and measuring the caster with an angle finder on the spindle) until I got around 6º of caster. I also used heims on the uppers, in order to allow enough adjustment to fix any error I made and adjust the caster and camber. Doing so I was able to get the alignment perfect side to side, with about 5-6º of caster.

 

[t-man]

I basically just took a stock arm, cut it in half, and carefully measured the amount I wanted to extend it, and welded a tube in there to make an arm the right width I needed. Then I took that arm, and built a jig to hold the bushings and balljoint in the right place. Then took plate and filled in the jig, using new bushings and the cut off ball joint holder (dont know what its called) from a stock arm.

Then for the uppers, the same principal applies, but I moved the upper uniball over about an inch (I had to do trial and error, with cycling the the suspension and measuring the caster with an angle finder on the spindle) until I got around 6º of caster. I also used heims on the uppers, in order to allow enough adjustment to fix any error I made and adjust the caster and camber. Doing so I was able to get the alignment perfect side to side, with about 5-6º of caster.

Well I'm thinking right because that's literally word for word of my personal thoughts. Once making a jig you could also buy heavy duty tubing and make your own arms out of that kind of like allpro did, and then gusset with 1/4" steel to reinforce. I would also put a plate along the bottom of the arms for a "slider" affect, which would further strengthen.
Do we need 5-6* castor to move the tires forward and correct alignment and steering? I have been thinking of when I fix my inner and outer tie rods that I should adjust my uppers for more caster. I have like 3-3.5* right now with 4" of lift.

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

 

[Troymclure]

Well I'm thinking right because that's literally word for word of my personal thoughts. Once making a jig you could also buy heavy duty tubing and make your own arms out of that kind of like allpro did, and then gusset with 1/4" steel to reinforce. I would also put a plate along the bottom of the arms for a "slider" affect, which would further strengthen.
Do we need 5-6* castor to move the tires forward and correct alignment and steering? I have been thinking of when I fix my inner and outer tie rods that I should adjust my uppers for more caster. I have like 3-3.5* right now with 4" of lift.

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

Yeah not many other ways to do it really haha. But tube would work too, as long as there is some plate to reinforce it. As for the castor, it helps to have a higher number, at least for offroading. It also helps tire clearance at the rear of the fenderwell. If you want to maximize caster and clearance, you could even push the lower ball joint forward a bit, although go too far and the axle will most likely bind.

 

[Bumbo]

Out here in the desert southwest, the Off Road racing scene is a big deal. Fast desert rigs haulin thru the desert, thru the woods up and over the mountains to Grandmothers house we go. Back in the 70's early 80's the best way to build a fast desert truck was to build a 2wd. It of course had its disadvantages, such as the inability to go snow wheeling, tromping thru the occasional mud we see, and slowly driving thru rough rocky terrain, or sand dunes which we have a plenty. It wasnt until the late 80's and then the 90's that IFS, Twin Traction I-Beam 4x4's became notable with high technology made for some fast and very capable desert rigs. That for us was the hot ticket. Now we can go wheeling year around, and not sacrifice because of slow clunky leaf sprung 4x4's, or a 2wd. So we have become spoiled with our 4x4 street rigs. And our T4's are a great candidate. I can get a real, well working, finely tuned true 14" front travel and a 15" rear travel useable daily driver....I will take that any day. They handle great on road as well as awesome off road. And all with four passengers and a/c...Its worth the money, but only if you are in to that type of wheeling.

I spend a lot of my time in the deserts for recreation... and I love my 4R as much as the next guy! I drive it around like its my desert Cadillac, wrapped in luxury, ARB fridge freezer, AC... I get it... but I also have my limits and know its limitations.

Personally im good with getting a nice simple mid travel setup, like a complete top of the line ICON kit, 2.5" RR shocks, adjusters, UCA... Not cheap, but really that over the top either.

But there comes a point when people try making things into things they really went designed to do. For me the 4R stops at a nice good all purpose ICON kit like that, and it does exceptionally well in the desert for just getting me around, to camp, and some occasional "power walk" on a nice straight away, some trail and exploring. I stay away from doing completely noob level shit, because I know better. Jumps, high speed whoops... ya... even the very built up long travel Tacomas... some of the videos I see just made me cringe.

If I am craving more, I can think of wiser ways to spend that money, and get a lot more capability out of it.

If I need more, I take out my sand toys like ATVs and side-by-sides out... those are the way to go if I have a need for speed. 20K gets you something like a Yamaha YXZ, and that comes with massive long 2.5" FOX shocks and its designed to be beat on. Lets talk retail, at least 5k+ out of that 20k is just suspension. 15k for the rest of the car is a deal to me. The damn thing only weights a 1000 lb and it out suspensions any 4Runner ive seen. I can also sell that in a heartbeat and be out a lot less money compared to some monster truck 4Runner.

At least with a nice 4R, you can still tow the UTV out there, and still have both with you.

But this is America... do whatever you want, and dont let people tell you how to spend your money.

AANNNDDD... I just saw this.. Its new, didn't know about this one until just now..

Maverick X3
FOX 3.0 Podium RC2 HPG shocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QusxrWcROTU

The internet is making me poorer each day... between Amazon Prime and T4R forum, ill be broke in no time.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QusxrWcROTU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



















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[Tooltime19]

It is very important for people to realize a vehicle limits as well as their own. Ive been teaching drivers of all ages throughout my life in formal settings everything from the basics of driving a car on the street, teen defensive driving, to a few forms of high performance pavement and off road driving and car control clinics. It kills me when I see the noob as you pit it thrashing their stock out of the box rig. We build vehicles to suit every need such as yours. I for example build, or have plans to take my rig to the next level of off road high performance. I have maxed out my current package. So yes, my current package has its limits, and I stay within those limits. That is until I finally move up to my next step. Sure, I could leave it like it is, but im one of those guys who likes to play with and build vehicles. I love our Polaris Razors, yet I love my T4 and mt Ford Explorer Sport-Trac pre runner toy project too.

 

[t-man]

Yeah not many other ways to do it really haha. But tube would work too, as long as there is some plate to reinforce it. As for the castor, it helps to have a higher number, at least for offroading. It also helps tire clearance at the rear of the fenderwell. If you want to maximize caster and clearance, you could even push the lower ball joint forward a bit, although go too far and the axle will most likely bind.

I was thinking if I could push them forward an inch without issue that would be nice. I have all the room in the world in front of the tires, especially if I relocated the washer tank. When I do my tie rod ends I'm going to bump my caster up to 4-5* and see how that treats me.

 

[Troymclure]

I was thinking if I could push them forward an inch without issue that would be nice. I have all the room in the world in front of the tires, especially if I relocated the washer tank. When I do my tie rod ends I'm going to bump my caster up to 4-5* and see how that treats me.

Sounds like a plan. The increased caster is really nice, ideally Id have mine about 8º, but at that point, tire wear is accelerated too much for street driving. Also remembered this thread How to make sweet Long Travel Suspension | Toyota Truck Forum | ToyotaTruckClub.com

Basically has some nice pictures to follow along with, and is exactly how I built my kit. But instead of using a stock total chaos arm for the jig, I used the cut and extended stock arm.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Sounds like a plan. The increased caster is really nice, ideally Id have mine about 8º, but at that point, tire wear is accelerated too much for street driving. Also remembered this thread How to make sweet Long Travel Suspension | Toyota Truck Forum | ToyotaTruckClub.com

Basically has some nice pictures to follow along with, and is exactly how I built my kit. But instead of using a stock total chaos arm for the jig, I used the cut and extended stock arm.

Nice link. Not sure what I want to make next. Front bumper, rear bumper, roof rack, or now long travel kit.:boink:

 

[Inv4drZm]

Okay guys, which one of you owns this truck?

Solo Motorsports +4.5" capable of 19" of travel with 4WD.








(The taped-on foam bumper piece is a nice touch)

 

[t-man]

Okay guys, which one of you owns this truck?

Solo Motorsports +4.5" capable of 19" of travel with 4WD.








(The taped-on foam bumper piece is a nice touch)

Holy hell! 9" wider! Wonder what they plan for the rear. I think I'd have to have a custom width rear made to compensate a little.

Sent from the drivers seat of my 05 4runner.

 

[techno]

Looks like 2wd to me. No CV shafts and no 4wd badging?

 

[Troymclure]

Looks like 2wd to me. No CV shafts and no 4wd badging?

Yep, thats a 2wd one. Their kit though can be 4x4 with a custom spindle, dana 44 snouts and hubs, and 19" of travel. Must be nice, but at like $7500 for the kit with axles and shocks, Ill stick to my homemade kit built for around $1000 haha

 

[Bumbo]

I gotta say... that thing looks pretty mean...

 

[Tooltime19]

Nice stuff! My issue with the 3.5 per side long travel systems is that the rig looks disproportionate with the rear unless we build a custom rear. Theat one reason Im probably going to stick with the TC @' Race kit. I can keep mt rear wheel spacers and it wont look to out of whack. But then Im only going to have a mere 11.5" of front travel... So, if I do that, then Im thinking of going the Metal Tech route. Im not 100% set yet. I really wanted the rear cantilever system and more travel up front. So for now, Im still thinking and reading posts for more research.