manual hub swap

[4RunnerChaos]

I have 98 limited with shift on the fly.
I was looking to swap in manual hubs up front with a spool locker.
I read an article online which said vehicles with ADD hubs are easy to swap. And shift on the fly has ADD hubs according to the article.
Has anyone here done a hub swap?

 

[Rifter]

You need the manual hubs/spindles/half shafts off a 96-0something Tacoma base model 4x4 if I remember correctly. You also need to do some presswork if you want to keep ABS and new wheel bearings.

Looked into this a week ago and came to the conclusion a ARB airlocker would be cheaper and a lot less work to install.

 

[csp]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/87516-aisin-manual-locking-hubs.html

No idea what you mean by "ADD hubs" because ADD is in the diff part of the front driveline. They don't have a locking/unlocking type hub out where the wheels are.

 

[SCRunner12]

I just did this swap a couple of weeks ago. I didn't keep my ABS, so I just swapped over the CV's, spindles and manual hubs onto my 4runner. It was very easy to go this route and very straight forward. If you want to retain your ABS then you need to buy new wheel bearing and press in the manual hub gear into your ABS spindles.

 

[4RunnerChaos]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/87516-aisin-manual-locking-hubs.html

No idea what you mean by "ADD hubs" because ADD is in the diff part of the front driveline. They don't have a locking/unlocking type hub out where the wheels are.

Thanks for write up.
I'm finding abs more detrimental to the stopping power of these trucks.
And as to the ADD hubs, I'm assuming the standard welded pucks as opposed to autolocking hubs and manual hubs
Thanks for the info guys

And to you guys with the manual hubs, have you noticed any difference in normal DD activities? I've heard there's a slight increase in responsiveness and mpg.. I'm not saying like 3 second of a quarter and 5 mpg increase
A 1 mpg increase would give back a little bit of the investment.

 

[4RunnerChaos]

I just did this swap a couple of weeks ago. I didn't keep my ABS, so I just swapped over the CV's, spindles and manual hubs onto my 4runner. It was very easy to go this route and very straight forward. If you want to retain your ABS then you need to buy new wheel bearing and press in the manual hub gear into your ABS spindles.

Hey is your hub swap in your build thread? And have you noticed any difference in feel while in 2wd unlocked?

 

[IBallEngineer]

Thanks for write up.
I'm finding abs more detrimental to the stopping power of these trucks.
And as to the ADD hubs, I'm assuming the standard welded pucks as opposed to autolocking hubs and manual hubs
Thanks for the info guys

And to you guys with the manual hubs, have you noticed any difference in normal DD activities? I've heard there's a slight increase in responsiveness and mpg.. I'm not saying like 3 second of a quarter and 5 mpg increase
A 1 mpg increase would give back a little bit of the investment.

When you say shift on the fly, do you have multi-mode or AWD. Because if you don't I'm not sure what you expect to gain by using manual hubs because 2wd doesn't turn the front drive shaft in a normal t/c. If you are in multi mode and or awd and turning the "spool" and axles you are still using power even if you aren't turning the hubs. In either case, I don't see any sort of mileage gain in your future.

Also, you realize many of the 3rd gens use the wheel speed sensor to calculate vehicle speed?

 

[4RunnerChaos]

When you say shift on the fly, do you have multi-mode or AWD. Because if you don't I'm not sure what you expect to gain by using manual hubs because 2wd doesn't turn the front drive shaft in a normal t/c. If you are in multi mode and or awd and turning the "spool" and axles you are still using power even if you aren't turning the hubs. In either case, I don't see any sort of mileage gain in your future.

Also, you realize many of the 3rd gens use the wheel speed sensor to calculate vehicle speed?

I have the push button on the side of my transfer case shifter that has 3 positions, 4lo-N-4Hi
Well if the wheels are both turning the CVs that are turning the spool they'd be locked together, manual hub so I can disconnect the two.
And is the speed measured at all four corners? I was spinning the tires on some ice and the speed registered off the rear wheels for me.
I don't really care about a mpg gain, but I sure wouldnt be opposed to it.

The main factors for me would be reliability cost and DD ability.
$1500 for air locker + air supply. Or a potential $400 swap of manual hubs and a spool locker.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I saw that a lot on Yotatech. They also claimed MPG increases by not having the front axle rotating anymore with the ADD system. It's just not true though, you don't lose power from rotating an axle that is well greased and carrying no load. It's lost in the driveline, wheels, tire tread, weight, etc.

If you want to add power and MPG's remove any exterior roof racks, lights, etc. and empty your rear cargo area. That'll make a bigger difference.

 

[UnderFire]

First off, you will not gain any noticible MPG's by having manual hubs, that's just a fact, the main reason that you'd want to do it is reliability and the ability to run a spool in the front.

You've got to remember though, having a spool in the front means that any time you are in 4WD your front end is locked up, if you're planning on driving down the road in snow with that set-up, it wouldn't be ideal, but for something that would only be in 4WD while offroad, it's fine. If not, I'd say save up and do the ARB and put in a good onboard air system you can use to air up tires and run tools too.

 

[flehunseos]

you will not gain any noticible MPG's by having manual hubs

 

[D Farms]

When you say shift on the fly, do you have multi-mode or AWD. Because if you don't I'm not sure what you expect to gain by using manual hubs because 2wd doesn't turn the front drive shaft in a normal t/c. If you are in multi mode and or awd and turning the "spool" and axles you are still using power even if you aren't turning the hubs. In either case, I don't see any sort of mileage gain in your future.

Also, you realize many of the 3rd gens use the wheel speed sensor to calculate vehicle speed?

so ive got an interesting question for you: say i had an 80 series axle that i cut the knuckles off of and flipped so it could be a drivers side diff, then did a 4 link layout, then i put manual hubs on it, then welded spring perches on and the whole shabang. I have a 2002 with the multimode and vsc trac, would it be possible to set up the hubs with a wheel speed sensor?

this picture makes me think the wheel speed sensors are built in

 

[IBallEngineer]

so ive got an interesting question for you: say i had an 80 series axle that i cut the knuckles off of and flipped so it could be a drivers side diff, then did a 4 link layout, then i put manual hubs on it, then welded spring perches on and the whole shabang. I have a 2002 with the multimode and vsc trac, would it be possible to set up the hubs with a wheel speed sensor?

this picture makes me think the wheel speed sensors are built in

The wheel speed sensors ARE built in to the knuckle. The reluctor is on the outer end of the birfield. I seem to remember the hole for the sensor being on top, but I'm not 100% on that. Manual hubs aren't a problem, they bolt right up!

For the OP, another thing to consider about what he wants to do. When the manual hubs are engaged on a spool, it's very hard to steer, even with a detroit. That's why you twin stick. Having the select-able locker you can disengage the front to steer, and only engage when absolutely needed. Makes for fewer broken parts too.

opcorn:

 

[4eigner]

I just did this swap a couple of weeks ago. I didn't keep my ABS, so I just swapped over the CV's, spindles and manual hubs onto my 4runner. It was very easy to go this route and very straight forward. If you want to retain your ABS then you need to buy new wheel bearing and press in the manual hub gear into your ABS spindles.

Did this alter your speedometer readings? I was under the impression that those readings came from the abs ring readings.

 

[4RunnerChaos]

First off, you will not gain any noticible MPG's by having manual hubs, that's just a fact, the main reason that you'd want to do it is reliability and the ability to run a spool in the front.

You've got to remember though, having a spool in the front means that any time you are in 4WD your front end is locked up, if you're planning on driving down the road in snow with that set-up, it wouldn't be ideal, but for something that would only be in 4WD while offroad, it's fine. If not, I'd say save up and do the ARB and put in a good onboard air system you can use to air up tires and run tools too.

Those would be the main reasons, the mpg boost would just be an added bonus.
Thanks for pointing out the snow thing... Didn't think about that little fact....

The wheel speed sensors ARE built in to the knuckle. The reluctor is on the outer end of the birfield. I seem to remember the hole for the sensor being on top, but I'm not 100% on that. Manual hubs aren't a problem, they bolt right up!

For the OP, another thing to consider about what he wants to do. When the manual hubs are engaged on a spool, it's very hard to steer, even with a detroit. That's why you twin stick. Having the select-able locker you can disengage the front to steer, and only engage when absolutely needed. Makes for fewer broken parts too.

opcorn:

Good thoughts on these. I didn't think about steering in 4wd is hard enough in 4wd unlocked.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[D Farms]

The wheel speed sensors ARE built in to the knuckle. The reluctor is on the outer end of the birfield. I seem to remember the hole for the sensor being on top, but I'm not 100% on that. Manual hubs aren't a problem, they bolt right up!

For the OP, another thing to consider about what he wants to do. When the manual hubs are engaged on a spool, it's very hard to steer, even with a detroit. That's why you twin stick. Having the select-able locker you can disengage the front to steer, and only engage when absolutely needed. Makes for fewer broken parts too.

opcorn:

most excellent, my evil plan is coming together.

 

[SCRunner12]

Hey is your hub swap in your build thread? And have you noticed any difference in feel while in 2wd unlocked?

Not really, I didn't do anything special besides take all my ADD stuff out and replace it with the manual hub CV's, spindle and hubs. Didn't feel like there was a reason to do any write up since I didn't alter anything.

It's hard to determine, but I felt a difference in rolling resistance when I did the swap. I felt it was quicker to accelerate from a stop and my 4runner doesn't drag as much when I let off the gas.

When you say shift on the fly, do you have multi-mode or AWD. Because if you don't I'm not sure what you expect to gain by using manual hubs because 2wd doesn't turn the front drive shaft in a normal t/c. If you are in multi mode and or awd and turning the "spool" and axles you are still using power even if you aren't turning the hubs. In either case, I don't see any sort of mileage gain in your future.

Also, you realize many of the 3rd gens use the wheel speed sensor to calculate vehicle speed?

Did this alter your speedometer readings? I was under the impression that those readings came from the abs ring readings.

I didn't alter anything with my speedometer and it reads correctly still. I'm pretty sure it gets the reading from the rear wheels as well. I have my ABS sensors secured in my engine bay for now and I haven't noticed any adverse effects from it. My ABS light isn't showing either.


In regards to MPG, I haven't noticed a major bump. Maybe .5 MPG, but that isn't the reason I did it. I was hoping I would get an increase, but the swap cost me nothing all said and done, so I felt the ability to reduce the wear and tear on my CV's and diff would be more beneficial. Plus if I break a CV I can just unlock that side and limp off the trail.

 

[4RunnerChaos]

Not really, I didn't do anything special besides take all my ADD stuff out and replace it with the manual hub CV's, spindle and hubs. Didn't feel like there was a reason to do any write up since I didn't alter anything.

It's hard to determine, but I felt a difference in rolling resistance when I did the swap. I felt it was quicker to accelerate from a stop and my 4runner doesn't drag as much when I let off the gas.





I didn't alter anything with my speedometer and it reads correctly still. I'm pretty sure it gets the reading from the rear wheels as well. I have my ABS sensors secured in my engine bay for now and I haven't noticed any adverse effects from it. My ABS light isn't showing either.


In regards to MPG, I haven't noticed a major bump. Maybe .5 MPG, but that isn't the reason I did it. I was hoping I would get an increase, but the swap cost me nothing all said and done, so I felt the ability to reduce the wear and tear on my CV's and diff would be more beneficial. Plus if I break a CV I can just unlock that side and limp off the trail.

Thank you, you've definitely reaffirmed what I've read.
Big tires big brakes who needs abs???? Lol.
It would be nice not feeling the rolling resistance. Its kind of a drag when you're trying to pull on an s10 blazer that's trying to cut you off.
The .5 mpg is .5 mpg, that's a 2.5% increase, not bad for a cheap bolt on... And over the lifetime of these runners, that adds up!