Mechanic etiquette?

[atalarico]

I took my 4R up for some high-country adventure yesterday and the list of things I need to diagnose/replace/repair seems to be growing and I need to start prioritizing spending for car parts again. Well, at least that's what I thought of when I realized that my rear-view mirror was vibrating so badly at highway speeds that I couldn't see much out of it. To say that my steering is loose is an understatement, oh and I'm pretty sure I smoked some important part of my AC when I accidentally overcharged it.

I (usually) like doing the work myself, but I'm crap for diagnosing and my usual tactic is to replace everything that's possibly related in order of easiest to hardest to replace. I'm not sure that this is the best or most economical approach with one of my current issues because vibrations like this can be anything from u-joints/drive-shafts to wheel balance.

I've had my wheels rebalanced twice since getting the Duratracs last Fall, and had an alignment done at a very reputable specialty shop. Incidentally though, the vibrations started getting a lot worse when I got my tires, but it could just be that these tires are just accentuating it and not the cause of it.

I recently lifted my truck and I could move the tires right and left when they were off the ground, but they were rock solid going up and down. While I was replacing my LBJ's (again), I noticed the ITR wasn't doing a stellar job of holding up the OTRE, with one side dropping quickly, and the other side dropping more slowly. So, tie-rods are on my list, but I've done them before and they're not terrible. The cost comes in though because I don't want to use the sankei brand I got from NAPA last time since they're maybe 20k old, and I feel like maybe that's not that long (right?), so OEM. That's a pretty penny in tie-rods then.

However, this isn't even a guarantee that it'll solve the issue. I'm thinking of taking it to my local trusted Toyota mechanic (Comprehensive Car Car in Denver) and having them diagnose the issues. I've done this once before with them where I brought it in and asked them to check out various things. They gave me a list with a quote for each issue, and I had them take care of 2 out of the 5, and I did the rest.

Is that an OK thing to do? I mean, even at this point I'm willing to pay a diagnostic fee if it'll save me from replacing parts that I don't need to replace right now. On the other hand, there's no guarantee that they're right and it's not exactly fair to expect that.

Help me Obi-Wan-Wrench-Kenobi...you're my only hope.

Sorry for the long thread, I just needed to rant. Feeling a bit overwhelmed by it all.

 

[gamefreakgc]

After fighting steering wobbles of my own, this one is really, really hard to diagnose. It's usually because it's a variable of many parts, not just one. For me it was ball joints, inner tie rods, out of balance tires and bad tread (still need to replace the tires). Starting out though I really had no way to pin down what was wrong since every "test" came back "positive".

Oh and then my steering rack failed!

A mechanic is going to give a short list of what it could be, but will not likely give an exact answer.

 

[TheOGConCon]

When I had to replace my steering rack, I used a new one by A1 Cardone which included ITRE's. Was about $450 I think, but A1 Cardone ITRE's are a good cost-effective replacement. While you're at it, might as well replace your steering rack and sway bar bushings with polyurethane bushings from Energy Suspension

 

[atalarico]

Thanks for the input!

Is it reasonable to ask them to actually test the various components for play? Like I said, I've done the wheel test for the tie-rods, and there's definitely horizontal play on the wheels. I know that could also mean that it's the rack, but that was replaced when I bought the truck at about 160k miles (it's 231k now). I haven't been able to test the drive-shafts/u-joints because I don't have a level spot to go park, chock the wheels, and put her in N.

I'm sort of reading between the lines and seeing that taking it to a mechanic won't be much different in terms of replacing things and seeing if it fixes the problem.

Oh, and rack bushings are on my list to test too. Since the rack isn't original, I didn't start there, but I do need to check them for play none-the-less. They sound like a pain, so I'd rather wait to figure out if my rack is bad before taking the time to replace the bushings if they'll just get replaced anyway.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Thanks for the input!

Is it reasonable to ask them to actually test the various components for play? Like I said, I've done the wheel test for the tie-rods, and there's definitely horizontal play on the wheels. I know that could also mean that it's the rack, but that was replaced when I bought the truck at about 160k miles (it's 231k now). I haven't been able to test the drive-shafts/u-joints because I don't have a level spot to go park, chock the wheels, and put her in N.

I'm sort of reading between the lines and seeing that taking it to a mechanic won't be much different in terms of replacing things and seeing if it fixes the problem.

Oh, and rack bushings are on my list to test too. Since the rack isn't original, I didn't start there, but I do need to check them for play none-the-less. They sound like a pain, so I'd rather wait to figure out if my rack is bad before taking the time to replace the bushings if they'll just get replaced anyway.

They are a pain, and did absolutely nothing for me. Seeing you replaced the rack, I doubt the bushings have failed with less than 100k.

 

[atalarico]

They are a pain, and did absolutely nothing for me. Seeing you replaced the rack, I doubt the bushings have failed with less than 100k.

I couldn't resist. Yeah, I'm still going to have a look see for any play there, but it's not my luck for the problem to be remedied by 2 hours of swearing and a $30 bushing set.

 

[amalik]

sucks also cuz there is never the perfect mechanic you can find on a graph where 'skill' and 'compensation' meet equilibrium -- good guys are always at the $100/hour shops. $20-25/hour guys can't do the work you 'really' need.

 

[atalarico]

Quick update:

Finally took it into the shop. They confirmed it was the rear drive-shaft u-joints causing (most of) the vibration. Also confirmed that my passenger's side inner-tie rod is "loose", which confirms my diagnosis when I had it up on jack stands a while ago.

So, I had them do the u-joints for $180. Yeah yeah yeah, I know, could have done it myself cheaper...except I am shit when it comes to rigging up an impromptu press. While I found that to be affordable, their quote for the ITR was hilariously close to $400! I politely thanked him for the quote and said I'd take care of it on my own (ordered two OEM ITR's for $77/ea (+$30 shipping) from Amayama today), and I'm getting the OTRE's from CamelBack.

I'm hoping this helps stabilize the handling quite a bit. The real test will be 4HI on the highway. If it doesn't vibrate like crazy when I accelerate, then it's going to be a huge win!

 

[atalarico]

Oh, and I had them check out my AC. Turns out the open-box ASIN fan clutch I ordered from Amazon wasn't working (at least, I hope that's the fan clutch he was talking about)!

So, even though the 30-day return window expired last month, Amazon was kind enough to let me send it back for a refund. The new one has been ordered with one-day shipping waived too, so I'll throw that in on Saturday.

That said, I clearly have no idea how the fan clutch is responsible for the AC making a strange noise when the AC compressor tries to come on. Any insight there? I'll ask them too because I think he said something about the compressor not being happy if the condensor isn't being cooled, but don't quote me on that.

 

[HiLife]

I'm thinking of taking it to my local trusted Toyota mechanic (Comprehensive Car Car in Denver) and having them diagnose the issues. I've done this once before with them where I brought it in and asked them to check out various things. They gave me a list with a quote for each issue, and I had them take care of 2 out of the 5, and I did the rest.

Is that an OK thing to do? I mean, even at this point I'm willing to pay a diagnostic fee if it'll save me from replacing parts that I don't need to replace right now. On the other hand, there's no guarantee that they're right and it's not exactly fair to expect that.

There is a chain of shops where I am. Not only that they don't mind diagnosing the problem for a fee, they'll even give you a print out the repair steps so you have something to follow if you feel like fixing it yourself. I think that pretty cool that the shop provides that service.

 

[atalarico]

There is a chain of shops where I am. Not only that they don't mind diagnosing the problem for a fee, they'll even give you a print out the repair steps so you have something to follow if you feel like fixing it yourself. I think that pretty cool that the shop provides that service.

That is neat! I noticed a while ago that there are now these types of places you can go to basically rent the garage/lift/tools and even pay to have someone help you with repairs. I remember being a stoned teenager and having that exact idea once, so I'm glad someone got around to it.

The shop I go to works out well for me, and I usually will have them do one of the four things I have them look at, so I'm guessing that helps waive the inspection fee and such.

 

[csp]

That said, I clearly have no idea how the fan clutch is responsible for the AC making a strange noise when the AC compressor tries to come on.

AC compressor clutch, not fan clutch.

Your rear view mirror vibrating is an easy fix. Gotta get the storage cubby out of the way and you have access to tighten up the screws.

 

[atalarico]

AC compressor clutch, not fan clutch.

Your rear view mirror vibrating is an easy fix. Gotta get the storage cubby out of the way and you have access to tighten up the screws.

Awww sonnnn of a...

I need to call him to clarify then because I just ordered that fan clutch and I don't want to eat that shipping cost! Eep.

Thanks! I'll update with more info.

The mirror vibrating was more indicative of the driveline vibrations getting worse, but I'll see if the screws can get tightened up a bit too!

 

[gamefreakgc]

AC compressor clutch, not fan clutch.

Your rear view mirror vibrating is an easy fix. Gotta get the storage cubby out of the way and you have access to tighten up the screws.

You can also adjust the rear view mirror with the adjustment screw on the back of the mirror if it's not the base that's loose.

 

[atalarico]

So I just called the mechanic again...

He said the clutches are fine and it looks like it was overcharged (which I was pretty sure I did in the first place). He recommends a drain and re-charge for $180. Wtf?! I just emailed Amazon apologizing for the mixup and explaining the situation. Hopefully they are cool about it and I don't have to eat the shipping charges or whatever.

I'm going to pick it up in a bit here and make sure we're talking about the same things here. He definitely said something yesterday about the fan clutch being bad, not coming on at the right time, and not pulling in air across the radiator and condenser.

The AC was making a weird noise after I (over) charged it when the compressor would come on. The RPMs would jump higher than their usual jump too, and after using it for a while the AC would stop coming out cold. I initially charged it because it wasn't nearly as cold after I installed my in-series tranny cooler, and it had been a few years since a charge.

It's lowest priority now considering the season change, but I'm going to let some of the pressure out from the L port I used to recharge it. Let me know if that's a bad idea.

 

[absalom]

If you still want help diagnosing any remaining issues, you're welcome to bring it by my place in Wheat Ridge.

 

[csp]

Now that would make sense about the fan not pulling air across the radiator and condenser. Your earlier info didn't allude to that, and there is no direct correlation to the fan clutch and the AC compressor.

IMO, you need to let a shop do the AC stuff and quit mixing them doing part, you buying parts, etc. Don't release refrigerant by just opening the port! First, you're polluting the atmosphere and second, you could allow contaminants (moisture and air) into the AC system. AC shops will have coolant recovery systems made to do this.

 

[nissanh]

Is the inline trans cooler covers half of the Ac condenser? I still doubt it can cause an effect on the AC.

How is the front AC filter window looks like? Clear and absolutely no bubbles? or lots and lots of bubbles? It should be clear and a bubble or two every 2 seconds is OK. But NO bubbles can be two things. Have the perfect amount of gas or over-charged it.

Get one of those (Walmart) AC cans and get the hose with the gauge. Then attach one end to the AC can and the other end to the L side. To purge, keep the gas can end of the hose bit loose (1 or two turns should make it tight). Then slide the other end of the hose to the L-port and you can quickly close the gas can end (done with purging). Take a look at the gauge. It should be in green zone.

 

[atalarico]

If you still want help diagnosing any remaining issues, you're welcome to bring it by my place in Wheat Ridge.

I need to try that pickup line more often. But seriously, I do appreciate the offer! I'll let ya know. Always down to meet new friends.

Now that would make sense about the fan not pulling air across the radiator and condenser. Your earlier info didn't allude to that, and there is no direct correlation to the fan clutch and the AC compressor.

IMO, you need to let a shop do the AC stuff and quit mixing them doing part, you buying parts, etc.

Ahhh, shoot. Amazon's resolution was to just have me refuse delivery if I don't need it, which is simple enough. I'll triple-check with the mechanic that the fan clutch DEFINITELY works.

I kind of agree on the AC stuff, but it was the lowest priority anyway since the season change, so worst-case scenario is that I drain some of the pressure out and not bother the system for the winter.

Is the inline trans cooler covers half of the Ac condenser? I still doubt it can cause an effect on the AC.

How is the front AC filter window looks like? Clear and absolutely no bubbles? or lots and lots of bubbles? It should be clear and a bubble or two every 2 seconds is OK. But NO bubbles can be two things. Have the perfect amount of gas or over-charged it.

Get one of those (Walmart) AC cans and get the hose with the gauge. Then attach one end to the AC can and the other end to the L side. To purge, keep the gas can end of the hose bit loose (1 or two turns should make it tight). Then slide the other end of the hose to the L-port and you can quickly close the gas can end (done with purging). Take a look at the gauge. It should be in green zone.

Inline trans filter is not that big, and I did a lot of reading about the impact it might have on the AC condenser and the results seemed varied from various people.

Yeah, I was checking the bubble window during the refill over-charge procedure, and no bubbles. I have a cheap little hose with a gauge on the r134a bottle. I was going really slowly and then the needle jumped way into the red after a minute or two. It seemed to jump way into the red when the compressor turned on, but it wasn't doing that for the first minute of compressor cycling either. Weird.

I'll try your purging method too, but I'm not sure on that process you're describing. I don't think I can remove the hose from the r134 can though because it's already punctured, right? Can't I just find something to stick into the L port to open up the valve, and then stand clear and cover my mouth so I don't huff the freon?

Thanks!

 

[absalom]

With regards to A/C, they sell packaged A/C, vehicle specific kits on RockAuto. Comes with new compressor, condenser, drier, o-rings, and sometimes evap.

If it were me, I'd buy an A/C kit, bring your truck to a local shop to have it responsibly evacuated, bring it back home, swap in all the new A/C gear (I can help if you're local), bring back to shop for vac test, and charge.

So much easier than wasting time and diagnosis money on trying to patch your 20 year old system.

One of the kits that I'm referring to, toss in a new condenser, and you have nearly a brand new A/C system less evap.