Mild lift while maintaining down travel

jross20

jross20

New member
Alright, I've been searching and reading and searching and reading for days now and I think I am close to zeroing in on what I want. However, the close I get the more questions that start to emerge. I've been reading through many threads, but some of them are fairly old so I am unsure if the information is still totally valid/up to date. Plus some of my questions have gone unanswered...
:peep:
ANYWAY...

The goal for Ruby (gf's named the 4Runner Ruby) will be road trips, offroad trails, camping, etc. Some day we want to overland in her, but we are starting out slow.
I just want a minimal front lift as I learned with my tacoma, more lift = less down travel... So for Ruby, I want to maintain maximum articulation up and down while also improving the ride on and off-road.

I was looking at the 5100s paired with 880s and 906s. My questions are:

  1. What kind of lift should I expect, after they settle and all that jazz.
  2. Will I be able to load cargo into the back without the 906's sagging badly?
  3. WHICH 5100s do I purchase? I see so many, ones that are extended, non extended, Trunda ones, Taco ones... lord!
  4. Will this setup have decent flex/articulation?
  5. Do I need to adjust the panhard bar? Reloate?
  6. Do I need limit straps, or new bump stops?
  7. Finally... will this setup ride well?

Many thanks all.
:guitar2:
 
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If you want max down travel in the front, you will need new upper control arms and 'long travel' shocks. Stock, droop is limited in the front by the upper ball joint after the shock is removed. Maximum articulation will be achieved with the front swaybar removed and the softest springs you can handle up there (I used my OEM 2WD springs).

I had similar goals in the front for mine. First, some measurements, front with shock/springs removed and pivot bolts loose from center of hub to fender lip:

Full extension: 25.25"
Full compression: 16.75"

Stock ride height is considered 20". I used 4Runner Bilstein 5100's and a 3/8" top plate spacer to max out down travel (shocks top out about 1/4" before the ball joints would) and set the ride height around the middle of travel at 21.25" with the 5100 snap ring locations. I verified that there was still some compression stroke left on the shock at full compression resting on the bump stops. (so, with new upper arms, a larger top plate spacer could be used).

For the rear, similar calculations were done, though there are more options there. More information in my post on this page:

Phattyduck's '99 4WD swap

-Charlie
 
phattyduck said:
If you want max down travel in the front, you will need new upper control arms and 'long travel' shocks. Stock, droop is limited in the front by the upper ball joint after the shock is removed. Maximum articulation will be achieved with the front swaybar removed and the softest springs you can handle up there (I used my OEM 2WD springs).

I had similar goals in the front for mine. First, some measurements, front with shock/springs removed and pivot bolts loose from center of hub to fender lip:

Full extension: 25.25"
Full compression: 16.75"

Stock ride height is considered 20". I used 4Runner Bilstein 5100's and a 3/8" top plate spacer to max out down travel (shocks top out about 1/4" before the ball joints would) and set the ride height around the middle of travel at 21.25" with the 5100 snap ring locations. I verified that there was still some compression stroke left on the shock at full compression resting on the bump stops. (so, with new upper arms, a larger top plate spacer could be used).

For the rear, similar calculations were done, though there are more options there. More information in my post on this page:

Phattyduck's '99 4WD swap

-Charlie
Click to expand...


What is considered a "long travel shock"? And I don't necessarily want to add insane articulation, I just want to lose very little to zero of it haha. That's why I was wondering if the 880s would be fine. I may later change the upper control arms after a while, but I think this should be good for the moment?
 
phattyduck said:
Those would be the full 2.5" body coilover replacements that allow for extra droop and require new upper A-arms (King, etc.)

-Charlie
Click to expand...

Okay, I had a feeling those were the only ones.

So, do you think I would be fine with the 880s and 5100s? and by chance do you have any knowledge or opinion over which version of the 5100 to get?

Thanks for the help!
 
jross20 said:
Okay, I had a feeling those were the only ones.

So, do you think I would be fine with the 880s and 5100s? and by chance do you have any knowledge or opinion over which version of the 5100 to get?

Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...
I got 4Runner 5100's. They only came out fairly recently (two years ago?), so if you are researching anything older than that you would only find other recommendations than those - that might be why it is so confusing.

880 will work just fine with the 5100's, just leave the 5100's on the lowest perch. I don't have personal experience with the exact lift height for those. *BUT* you don't need new front springs since you can choose a lift with the 5100 adjustments.

-Charlie
 
phattyduck said:
I got 4Runner 5100's. They only came out fairly recently (two years ago?), so if you are researching anything older than that you would only find other recommendations than those - that might be why it is so confusing.

880 will work just fine with the 5100's, just leave the 5100's on the lowest perch. I don't have personal experience with the exact lift height for those. *BUT* you don't need new front springs since you can choose a lift with the 5100 adjustments.

-Charlie
Click to expand...

Okay that explains so much!!! I kept seeing people say there are no 3rd gen 4R 5100s, and I didn't know what to get...

How do you know which ones are the 4R ones? Are they soft or hard valved?
 
OP, for you I'd recommend 99 talls up front with 906's in the back. I think the 99's pair better with the 906's than OME's own 880.
 
Bad Luck said:
Shop By Vehicle - 4Runner - 96-02 4Runner - Suspension - Coilovers & Shocks - Bilstein

They say 4Runner. Tundra ones are longer.
Click to expand...

Well I was confused because I found a thread warning people, it said there were no true 3rd gen 4R coils and the only ones that existed were for tundras or taco's. And there was all kinds of debate over whether or not those are safe/fine to use.

absalom said:
OP, for you I'd recommend 99 talls up front with 906's in the back. I think the 99's pair better with the 906's than OME's own 880.
Click to expand...

99 Talls? I had looked into those but they seem to be more expensive than the OME's which is why I stopped looking at them...haha. I wouldn't want to get used ones at this point since they are all getting pretty old.
Unless there is a cheap source of new ones?

When you said pair better, do you think the 880s will be taller than the 906s?
 
jross20 said:
Well I was confused because I found a thread warning people, it said there were no true 3rd gen 4R coils and the only ones that existed were for tundras or taco's. And there was all kinds of debate over whether or not those are safe/fine to use.



99 Talls? I had looked into those but they seem to be more expensive than the OME's which is why I stopped looking at them...haha. I wouldn't want to get used ones at this point since they are all getting pretty old.
Unless there is a cheap source of new ones?

When you said pair better, do you think the 880s will be taller than the 906s?
Click to expand...
The Moog 99 talls on RockAuto are around $35 and work great. My thing with the 880s is that they sit level with the 906s when brand new, and the 906s lose about a 1/2” in the first year and you’ll end up with reverse rake.

The 99s up front and the 906s out back are, IMO, the single best low-lift option out there. The stance is perfect, and the springs work very well with each other. You also have the ability to pack in heavier loads without tons of sag.
 
absalom said:
The Moog 99 talls on RockAuto are around $35 and work great. My thing with the 880s is that they sit level with the 906s when brand new, and the 906s lose about a 1/2” in the first year and you’ll end up with reverse rake.

The 99s up front and the 906s out back are, IMO, the single best low-lift option out there. The stance is perfect, and the springs work very well with each other. You also have the ability to pack in heavier loads without tons of sag.
Click to expand...

Ah I understand. So that brings up two additional questions:

1.) Are the Moog coils good? I've read that people used to like moog but that apparently the quality has gone into the shitter. Do you know if they are made here or in China? (I prefer to buy US parts, or Japanese).

2.) What if I use the 880s and 906s, but add a spacer/trim packer to the 906's? I wanted to get the tundra 5100s (1.5" to 3") unless you or anyone else things this is a bad idea? I do want to make sure the back isn't too short for the 5100s
 
jross20 said:
Ah I understand. So that brings up two additional questions:

1.) Are the Moog coils good? I've read that people used to like moog but that apparently the quality has gone into the shitter. Do you know if they are made here or in China? (I prefer to buy US parts, or Japanese).

2.) What if I use the 880s and 906s, but add a spacer/trim packer to the 906's? I wanted to get the tundra 5100s (1.5" to 3") unless you or anyone else things this is a bad idea? I do want to make sure the back isn't too short for the 5100s
Click to expand...

1) I, and many other members, had very good luck with Moog springs lately. They felt very well made, unlike their LBJs and tie rod ends. And I’m a HUGE proponent of going OEM where applicable.

2) Even the 99s on stock struts will get you a decent little lift. I’d recommend starting with the 99s/906s and seeing if you need more lift. We wheeled aggressively pretty much every weekend on that setup and never once wanted for more lift. A tall lift has many downsides and very few upsides—even off road.

As far as shocks, I’d recommend the 6112s and 5160s. But honestly, unless you’re hard charging desert whoops, that might even be overkill. I had far shittier shocks, and I still would have put the money towards other things first. Like bump stops; a good set of durobumps or air bumps will make a MASSIVE difference off-road.

If you feel that still need more lift, I’d still recommend doing a full flat belly, and possibly bumpers before lifting higher. It’s all about a low CoG!!
 
absalom said:
1) I, and many other members, had very good luck with Moog springs lately. They felt very well made, unlike their LBJs and tie rod ends. And I’m a HUGE proponent of going OEM where applicable.

2) Even the 99s on stock struts will get you a decent little lift. I’d recommend starting with the 99s/906s and seeing if you need more lift. We wheeled aggressively pretty much every weekend on that setup and never once wanted for more lift. A tall lift has many downsides and very few upsides—even off road.

As far as shocks, I’d recommend the 6112s and 5160s. But honestly, unless you’re hard charging desert whoops, that might even be overkill. I had far shittier shocks, and I still would have put the money towards other things first. Like bump stops; a good set of durobumps or air bumps will make a MASSIVE difference off-road.

If you feel that still need more lift, I’d still recommend doing a full flat belly, and possibly bumpers before lifting higher. It’s all about a low CoG!!
Click to expand...

Okay that makes me feel a bit better...and honestly my wallet will appreciate it haha. I'll look at the Moog 99's. And I'm on the same page with you, I wanted a just a wee bit of lift. The rear isn't as much of an issue so 2" should be fine.

I'll look into those shocks, I believe the 6112's were like 600 bucks? Oh man, haha. I was looking to get the 5100s for now and then someday upgrade to coilovers. Maybe after I finally get a promotion... Anyway, I'll also look at the bumps you mentioned. Mine are basically rock hard and very uncomfortable haha.

rideexileex said:
I'll do a quick self-plug here:
FS in CO: 3rd Gen Post Long Travel - Front SS1.2, SPC UCA's, Lower Control Arms, etc

This will at least cover the front end - the height is adjustable on the struts.
Click to expand...

Oh sweet I'll check this out.
 
jross20 said:
Okay that makes me feel a bit better...and honestly my wallet will appreciate it haha. I'll look at the Moog 99's. And I'm on the same page with you, I wanted a just a wee bit of lift. The rear isn't as much of an issue so 2" should be fine.

I'll look into those shocks, I believe the 6112's were like 600 bucks? Oh man, haha. I was looking to get the 5100s for now and then someday upgrade to coilovers. Maybe after I finally get a promotion... Anyway, I'll also look at the bumps you mentioned. Mine are basically rock hard and very uncomfortable haha.



Oh sweet I'll check this out.
Click to expand...

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/543987-post8.html

That's exactly what yours will look like.
 
jross20 said:
Hey that looks good! Yeah I guess I'll go with the 99 talls
And get, one last time if you don't mind, do you have any additional opinion on taco/tundra/4runner 5100s?

I was reading that hard coils work well with the softer valved tundra shocks.
:snacker:
Click to expand...
I had the Tundra 5100's before the 3rd gen specific ones were released, never really cared for them. Honestly, unless you plan on lifting, in which case the 906s would be pointless, I wouldn't recommend the 5100's at all. Personally, I would just go KYB or Tokico 4runner specific shocks, and then save up for 6112's -- if you think you need them.

Does your truck have any armor? Do you wheel often? Do you have a 12v compressor yet? Recovery gear? VHF and/or CB radios? HID projector retrofit?

I could think of about 9,000 things I'd recommend to the typical 3rd gen owner before lifting past the point of what the 906/99's provide. The 5100's are just a budget way lift your truck, they aren't that great in the metrics that we measure shocks by.
 
absalom said:
I had the Tundra 5100's before the 3rd gen specific ones were released, never really cared for them. Honestly, unless you plan on lifting, in which case the 906s would be pointless, I wouldn't recommend the 5100's at all. Personally, I would just go KYB or Tokico 4runner specific shocks, and then save up for 6112's -- if you think you need them.

Does your truck have any armor? Do you wheel often? Do you have a 12v compressor yet? Recovery gear? VHF and/or CB radios? HID projector retrofit?

I could think of about 9,000 things I'd recommend to the typical 3rd gen owner before lifting past the point of what the 906/99's provide. The 5100's are just a budget way lift your truck, they aren't that great in the metrics that we measure shocks by.
Click to expand...

What? This is the only time I've ever seen someone not complement the 5100s. Especially the tundra ones which I've seen post after post praising. And as far as lifting, I'm trying to lift the front no higher than about an 1" to maintain down travel articulation. For the rear, 2" would be fine but I don't really want to go much further than that. Which is why I picked the 906's. Hard springs with soft valved shocks.

No armor it anything major yet, she is still in the refresh/maintenance stage currently. All of those things are future items. I don't look at the 5100s as lift, but just good shocks.

This is honestly baffling, the total opposite of what I've been reading over the past several days as I've been trying to research and learn. Perhaps the 5100s were just not what you personally wanted?
 
jross20 said:
What? This is the only time I've ever seen someone not complement the 5100s. Especially the tundra ones which I've seen post after post praising. And as far as lifting, I'm trying to lift the front no higher than about an 1" to maintain down travel articulation. For the rear, 2" would be fine but I don't really want to go much further than that. Which is why I picked the 906's. Hard springs with soft valved shocks.

No armor it anything major yet, she is still in the refresh/maintenance stage currently. All of those things are future items. I don't look at the 5100s as lift, but just good shocks.

This is honestly baffling, the total opposite of what I've been reading over the past several days as I've been trying to research and learn. Perhaps the 5100s were just not what you personally wanted?
Click to expand...
5100s aren't bad. They are just one tick above the bog standard 4600 OEM replacements -with the ability to ratchet in some lift as the main difference. They are budget shocks, and there's no way of getting around that. The nice thing about 5100s? They are tough as nails, I've personally never seen someone blow one.

Once you've ridden in Icons or Kings or ADSs or Foxes, etc you'll see what I'm talking about. The difference is night and day. The downside? The price is also night and day.

So my point remains, if you don't plan on utilizing the 5100 struts for their lifting capability, you may as well just save your money and get a fixed length strut.

Then again, you seem very determined on the 5100s, and I'm certainly not going to continue to talk you out of them. I think you'd be happy with them, at least for awhile. But, for just a little more money, the 6112 is a huge upgrade, and a great midway point between the budget shock world and the awesome 2.5" shock paradise.
 
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