Rights? On publicly owned land? Who does he think he is, a mega corp? Is he greasing the pockets he needs to then? :noidea:
Militiamen Occupy Oregon Wildlife Office in Protest of Ranchers' Prison Terms
- Thread starter ndcent
- Start date
Rights? On publicly owned land? Who does he think he is, a mega corp? Is he greasing the pockets he needs to then? :noidea:
nevada
Senior Member
this is the business the BLM is in. they rent grazing rights.
well, first they steal public land, restrict access, THEN they rent the access back to the public AS grazing rights.
BrianSD_42
New member
I read this. He could be right about agent provocateurs, there could be undercover agents. They do it all the time in terrorism cases. The issue I have with it is not the extreme conspiracy mentality of believing this whole thing is a false flag event by LEOs to trigger real violence, what bothers me is his referral to the Federal Government as "The Enemy"
I'm sorry but if someone thinks the Federal Government is the enemy then they are wrong.
BTW the US is in the middle of at least TWO wars right now. I won't list the many other combat actions going on this week but in Syria and Afghanistan US Soldiers are IN COMBAT.
I feel there is a huge disconnect from the burdens of war on US families and the general public, when so called uber patriots are referring to the US Government as "the enemy" within 24 hours of US Soldiers being killed in battle and returning coming home to be laid to rest.
What can fix this? I don't know. Perhaps the complete return of the draft. Everyone's kids should be given a REAL number, a real stake in the game, only a few will be called but perhaps then American's will wake up and we won't be stuck in never-ending campaigns to improve middle eastern countries and build up their societies. Let them fight and live or die for themselves.
DoD identifies Special Forces soldier killed in Afghanistan
:ranger:
We have elections for a reason. The BLM is controlled by congress. These laws weren't just made via dictatorship.
Because of this case I will pay more attention to the BLM. One thing I've taken away for sure is that grazing rights should not be inheritable.
Last edited:
ben550
New member
Next time you get stopped by a park ranger while wheeling, or have your camp sight inspected, or get asked to consent to a search of your pack, be sure to mention "This Federal land belongs to ALL of us... and we can enjoy it whenever we want!" Hahahaha. That will not get you far. Belonging to everyone means it belongs to no one. I would rather use the lost art of "interpersonal skills" to meet, greet, and ask for responsible access to a ranchers private land in exchange for payment or a weekend of work helping with one of their many projects... Like it used to be in the old days.
Below, I took the liberty of rewinding the clock 239 years and re-writing some of these comments as they would have been heard back then... I seem to remember a certain event in American History, where a band of rag tag militia members holed up for the winter... in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania.
"It seems like the British Army can just wait them out since they don't have shelter and no innocent people are in danger. If they are such great farmers who is tending their livestock?"
"As a former member of the British Royal Court, I would imagine that the British high command will just ignore them til they go home..."
"I just overheard Washington address his men from the refuge in Valley Forge. His message was embarrassingly inarticulate and conflated. These people need more PR and less guns."
"From my point of view, why are we covering this in the town hall meeting? A bunch of yokels are hanging out in old farm sheds in the middle of nowhere in the middle of winter under the pretense of "fighting for independence" (though the people they purport to be fighting for are not asking for their help) and just begging for someone to pay attention to them. Let them have their moment in the cold grey sun, go home bored (and cold, again why are they doing this in the winter?) because they didn't get to become martyrs, then the British Army can swing by and pick them up and remind them of why you cannot bring firearms to British controlled territory. Yes, this sensationalism is the fault of the daydreaming continental congress, and these chumps know how to exploit that."
"What bothers me is his referral to the British Empire as "The Enemy"
I'm sorry but if someone thinks the British Empire is the enemy then they are wrong.
We have representatives for a reason. The British Army is controlled by Parliment. These restrictions, quartering of troops in our homes, and excess taxes weren't just made via a dictatorship. Being we are citizens of the British Empire, we should write to King George, ask him to be reasonable and allow us to represent ourselves in Parliment..."
These quotes are fictitious, but should be thought provoking...
I think these ranchers could represent themselves much better (lose the patches, camo gettup, flags, etc... I think they have a valid message, however their method of delivery of that message needs improvement. They skipped multiple levels of escalation/protest and went right to armed conflict... not very wise. When this ends they are sure to face charges.
BrianSD_42
New member
BrianSD_42
New member
You know it may surprise you to be told this but many LEOs actually do respect the right to not be searched.
Do you ever watch COPs? These idiot criminals often give permission to search the trunk, right there on camera.
If I was hiking or camping or 4wheeling and a LEO asked me to search my property I absolutely would refuse, thank him his service and be on my way - at least in theory. BTW I've been camping in federal and state lands for over 25 years and never have had an LEO ask to search anything.
BUT let's just say after watching Making A Murderer, I won't be letting any LEO have access to any of my property, ever.
Last edited:
nevada
Senior Member
in this particular instance, would the government be better described as allies instead? I think enemy would be the correct term.
that doesn't necessarily mean they want to attack, or engage in some type of warfare with them.
willbgood
New member
I believe these to be a patently false statement...show me evidence beside the talking heads of the leftist news outlets.
willbgood
New member
In fact the BLM brags about not being under the authority of congress, and until a year ago openly bragged about it on their California portal stating, since 19** the BLM has been able to sidestep the congress". After I exposed it on Facebook, they took down the page and buried the links in archives. I have been unable to find the quote on google, because they have been flooding it with links and I do not have the time to muck through millions of links.
I was not always anti-BLM, in fact I was once a volunteer. But stumbled into information from older BLM employees, as well as from other cattlemen, and I started digging...what I discover is nothing short of complete disregard for the law, and an abandonment of their lawful mission.
I have the BLM Arizona strip, Southern Utah Planning documents on several disks, you should get them and read them...if they are successful, sell your 4runner and buy a Prius, wheeling, mining, oil exploration, and timber will come to an end.
willbgood
New member
BLM control by congress?
The BLM is mandated by Congress to sell land managed by the BLM at the market rate. They do have some wiggle room, but not much.
Ever try to buy BLM land?
I did for five years, and in those 5 years, I was never able to contact the person responsible for considering offers.
I did everything I possibly could to contact the person. They were either not available, out of town, and never once did they call me be back or respond to my correspondence. Try it sometime and then tell me about being responsible to follow the laws of congress.
If you really want to have an eye opener, read the federal register about what congress has mandated and allowed the BLM to do, and look at what they are actaully doing...hmmmm, something smells like rotten horse flesh.
The BLM is mandated by Congress to sell land managed by the BLM at the market rate. They do have some wiggle room, but not much.
Ever try to buy BLM land?
I did for five years, and in those 5 years, I was never able to contact the person responsible for considering offers.
I did everything I possibly could to contact the person. They were either not available, out of town, and never once did they call me be back or respond to my correspondence. Try it sometime and then tell me about being responsible to follow the laws of congress.
If you really want to have an eye opener, read the federal register about what congress has mandated and allowed the BLM to do, and look at what they are actaully doing...hmmmm, something smells like rotten horse flesh.
BrianSD_42
New member
https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/8b0cb12c-218a-4458-81e8-eaf1a162c31f
This document, which is a matter of public record, published by the US Attorney for Oregon clearly and simply states the charges the family was convicted of. Specifically illegal hunting on a federal reserve, then arson to cover it up. A member of their own family testified in the trial. The jurors were citizens of Oregon.
Because of this case and news story I will be keeping an eye on the BLM and try to make sure I vote for representives who will give the BLM higher scrutiny.
Last edited:
willbgood
New member
Check this out, and then research the facts about the family member who testified...
http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-co...ates-13-1512-Reply-to-Brief-in-Opposition.pdf
wadle5
New member
I feel like people keep leaving out the facts that the family member had mental health issues and was questioned about the event 10 years after it occurred. . .hardly solid evidence..
BrianSD_42
New member
I don't get it. Is this whole thing about the fact that the trial wasn't fair?
I think 1 year in prison for a remote fire that got out of control is more than enough punishment.
I don't support mandatory minimums, at all.
But the discussion keeps staying to the feds being these bad guys and it really is the justice system working as designed.
I think 1 year in prison for a remote fire that got out of control is more than enough punishment.
I don't support mandatory minimums, at all.
But the discussion keeps staying to the feds being these bad guys and it really is the justice system working as designed.
willbgood
New member
Go back and watch making a murderer again, and then change the facts to this fact picture...then maybe you will get it.
BrianSD_42
New member
I mean it's a bit different right. I haven't heard anything says these guys in Oregon were framed.
willbgood
New member
If the government uses its massive resources, to manipulates the Law, the evidence and facts of any case, in order to achieve its ends, is it any different then convicting an innocent person?
18 U.S.C. § 81 : US Code - Section 81: Arson within special maritime and territorial jurisdiction - See more at: 18 U.S.C. § 81 : US Code - Section 81: Arson within special maritime and territorial jurisdiction
"Whoever, within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, willfully and maliciously sets fire to or burns any building, structure or vessel, any machinery or building materials or supplies, military or naval stores, munitions of war, or any structural aids or appliances for navigation or shipping, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be imprisoned for not more than 25 years, fined the greater of the fine under this title or the cost of repairing or replacing any property that is damaged or destroyed, or both. If the building be a dwelling or if the life of any person be placed in jeopardy, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both". - See more at: 18 U.S.C. § 81 : US Code - Section 81: Arson within special maritime and territorial jurisdiction
As well, no one seems to question the specific wording of the of statute. Did the crime occur in a special maritime or territorial jurisdiction?
Did they willfully and maliciously set(s) (a) fire to or burn(s) any building, structure or vessel, any machinery or building materials or supplies, military or naval stores, munitions of war, or any structural aids or appliances for navigation or shipping?
Read this 18 U.S.C. § 7 : US Code - Section 7: Special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States defined - See more at: 18 U.S.C. § 7 : US Code - Section 7: Special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States defined
Note that it aligns with the constitution, not with a bird sanctuary or the current definition of the "public lands".
We let 9 people in dresses rule us, and all nod and say the supreme court says its so, so it must be so. We let the courts ignore the constitution, and then when they ignore the constitution and it directly affects us, we cry foul and vote for the guy who promises, (and never does,) to fix the court by stacking it with justice who support our view, (the constitution be damned).
Our forefathers must look on in disgust...we replaced a parliament and king with 9 Kings, and million or more bureaucrats...
U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Are the states in the west lesser states? Are the western states to be treated like territories in perpetuity, or are Independent states on equal footing?
U.S. Constitution - Article 4 Section 3
The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
Last edited:
BrianSD_42
New member
Not sure what the correlation is.
People here do fear crazy ISIS supporters will attack US civilians.
Yestarday a police officer in Philly was shot 3 times by a man claiming to support ISIS. Luckily he is expected to live but will likely be disabled from the attack.
Two refugees in the US were arrested this week for planning attacks on the civilian population.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/0...charges.html?referer=https://news.google.com/
Last edited:
