Missouri Legislature upholds 'Stand Your Ground,' concealed carry law — requiring no

[Ol'Blue]

Well if you have not hear about this, my great state I live in is pissing a lot of people off right now.

Republican supermajorities in the Missouri Legislature voted this week to override Democratic Governor Jay Nixon's veto of an omnibus gun bill that passed in the state legislative session earlier this year. The bill, Senate Bill 656, will considerably increase gun owners rights. It will allow use of deadly force against trespassers on one's own private property as long as a person "reasonably believes" shooting is "necessary to protect himself, or herself or her unborn child, or another against death, serious physical injury, or any forcible felony."

The law also "provides that a person does not have a duty to retreat from any place such person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity has a right to be."

The bill also will allow Missourians to carry concealed weapons without a permit, eliminating training requirements for concealed carry that are currently mandatory in the state.

With passage of the bill, Missouri joins 10 other states that allow its citizens to carry concealed firearms without a permit, according to the NRA, and one of dozens of states with either 'stand your ground' provisions or court precedents that allow residents to use deadly force in the face of a threat in an area where they are lawfully present without a duty to retreat. No state has passed a 'stand your ground' law since 2011.

Source: https://www.rt.com/usa/359604-missouri-stand-ground-guns/

I know for the most part this community leans pretty right winged. I also know that we have our die heart left wings around this place and I'm cool with that.

I'm interested what you guys think about all of this. If in favor or not and why. IMPORTANT PART. Make a no BS legitimate opinion. I don't want to hear well I don't like it or I do like it. Pt some thought into this or don't post some BS up please.

I personally do not think this country is really as divided as some people would want it to be for what ever political gain etc.

As for the the state passing this into law I seriously want to dance into the streets. Having the legal ability to not to be a victim of violence crime is a good thing in my opinion.

I really look at things much different than most because I have had to gun fight for my life too many times over while serving in the Marine Corps. I look at violent confrontation much different than most so I know were I stand on this topic, you should never have to justify why you needed to protect your self if someone else has made t choice to commit a violent felony on you. The choice is simple. LIVE- and let God and the Paramedics sort the rest out.


Closing- Let see what kinda ideas on this matter we can come up with.

:hatsoff:


Blue

 

[palerider01]

Good job Missouri! I'm happy to read another state is respecting the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment. I'd like to see California go conservative.


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[Ol'Blue]

Good job Missouri! I'm happy to read another state is respecting the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment. I'd like to see California go conservative.


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Not in our life time my friend. One reason I left the state.

Blue

 

[mizzouxc]

I grew up in MO, lived there most of my life. Family all still lives there. Proud of my home state.

Just a couple of comments / observations.
------------------------------
It's interesting that a number of states are passing legislation as of late to ensure constitutional rights are upheld; even the rights the Liberal leaning folks really dislike. Just an observation, but is this in response to all the political correctness, power grabs, hurt feelings about everything and restrictions the left is trying to impose? Possibly. However, it does voice that not everyone agrees with them and there are legislators willing to ensure the country stays free. I think everyone is starting to wake up and realize that there are just a few screaming very loudly and they don't represent the majority of the population.

This also simplifies MO firearms laws. In the past, it was a proverbial mine-field for open carry. While there was a state law allowing it, each region could enact their own laws. I'm not sure the exact delineation, but every county/city could have their own law regarding open carry. You could open carry in one county and be arrested in the next with felony firearms charges in the next.

I'm OK with open carry as a Veteran, but the sad truth is a lot of the civilian population becomes nervous around a firearm. In my opinion, conceal carry for civilians is the way to go.

I really wish the Federal Gov't would have universal firearms laws, just like the first amendment and all the others are universally enforced. Could you imagine if the first amendment was restricted like the 2nd is? Sir, you cannot speak your mind unless you've filled out the proper paperwork, we've made sure you're not a felon, not mentally ill and paid a license fee. While I'm completely legal to carry concealed with hollowpoints in many states, if I cross into say New Jersey, I'm a hardened felon.
--------

All that being said, if you choose to exercise your rights, ensure you train, practice and are 100% familiar with your firearm operation before carrying in public.

My rule of thumb is that I spend about as much training and practicing (including target ammo) as the cost of an average firearm.

Aim true

--mizzouxc, OIF/OEF Vet.

 

[Ol'Blue]

Very well put together sir....

The way I look at it is this. If I was trained enouph to protect some really high ranking officials in Iraq, given more clearances than you can shake a stick at, and passed all that. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing with a Glock or most any other firearm for that matter.

Blue

 

[Dark Lord]

The problem is, this shouldn't even be a debate. [MENTION=139883]mizzouxc[/MENTION] said it better than I could've imagined saying it. I agree 100%. I'm sick of gun rights being infringed. When are we going to get some people in government who will say enough is enough and make some real change (e.g. NFA, carry laws, etc.).

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[BrianSD_42]

Makes sense to me. Especially since home grown terrorism will only increase in the coming years.


Minnesota mall stabber was ‘a soldier of the Islamic State,’ ISIS-linked news agency claims

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-in-a-minnesota-mall/?utm_term=.b44287422b9b

 

[Ol'Blue]

The only way to stop a crazy MOFO with Input what ever weapon is with a weapon that will stop him or her. Remember have a weapon at your side my save your life or the life's of your fellow citizen's one day.

As said above about homegrown terrorist. It's not going to get better boys and girls. I promise you that. Remember what general Yamamoto said during World War II.

Blue

 

[JayceeP]

I think one should be able to defend themselves without repercussions in their own home. However I sometimes have conflicting opinions I.e- if someone breaks into my home and punches me in the face and tries to steal something does that mean I should be entitled to shoot and kill them? There is something very barbaric and uncivilized about that thought... and no I'm not saying any of you are uncivilized barbarians... I am just "verbalizing" my internal rationalizations. I also think "standing your ground" in an area you are lawfully able to be can lead to a lot of unfortunate/unnecessary outcomes.

I do think one should be able to own guns but I also am a citizen of a country that just does not have the same level of gun violence as the US. It is pretty alarming knowing that when I visit the US that many people walking or driving around me could be carrying handguns and frankly, I wouldn't want to live in a place where I constantly felt the need to be armed in order to feel safe. Again, I believe in gun ownership but the mentality of gun ownership in the US is definitely a lot different than what I am used to here in Canada.

To summarize: I guess I'm somewhere in between the left and right on this one. Also I am not trying to turn this into a US vs Canada debate- I am just referencing Canada to explain my opinion/perceptions because I have never lived in the US (just a regular visitor ).

 

[mizzouxc]

I think one should be able to defend themselves without repercussions in their own home. However I sometimes have conflicting opinions I.e- if someone breaks into my home and punches me in the face and tries to steal something does that mean I should be entitled to shoot and kill them? There is something very barbaric and uncivilized about that thought... and no I'm not saying any of you are uncivilized barbarians... I am just "verbalizing" my internal rationalizations. I also think "standing your ground" in an area you are lawfully able to be can lead to a lot of unfortunate endings.

I do think own should be able to own guns but I also am a citizen of a country that just does not have the same level of gun violence as the US. It is pretty alarming knowing that when I visit the US that many people walking or driving around me could be carrying handguns and frankly, I wouldn't want to live in a place where I constantly felt the need to be armed in order to feel safe. Again, I believe in gun ownership but the mentality of gun ownership in the US is definitely a lot different than what I am used to here in Canada.

To summarize: I guess I'm somewhere in between the left and right on this one. Also I am not trying to turn this into a US vs Canada debate- I am just referencing Canada to explain my opinion/perceptions because I have never lived in the US (just a regular visitor ).

Firstly, the violence you hear of is almost non-existant. The level of gun violence outside of gun-free zones like Chicago is very low. The media exploits FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) to create an agenda to fix something that almost doesn't exist. More people use them for suicide than in crimes; and most of the crimes committed with firearms are gang related. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

Compared to abortions (Data and Statistics | Reproductive Health | CDC) and other death statistics, you're almost more likely to disagree with Hillary and get killed. I just wouldn't live in Chicago.

If you ignore that: Big problem is our border is open like freaking Lindsay Lohan's legs. The US insulates Canada from a lot of criminals coming in from the south. This isn't a race thing, it's a fact. It's also a fact that there is already a WALL along most of the border. It's just not done very well. It's all about enforcing existing laws; so I guess the left's argument is that these laws are racist, xenophobic, etc.

Besides the failings of enforcing our own laws (BATFE OK's purchases when it shouldn't), criminals are not getting firearms from your local gun shop.

Firearm freedom is a lot about deterrent and protecting civilly and legally someone who defends their pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

While death might not be a proper "judgement" for wanting to steal your property, it sure is one heck of a deterrent for those who even think of doing it. When someone breaks in and you're home, are you going to ask them to stop, make them some tea and biscuits and ask them if they intend to harm you?

Finding firearms alarming, shouldn't be. I'm also not sure where you get this negative mentality of US gun ownership from. It isn't from real gun owners. It's more like "the mentality of gun ownership in the US is grossly misrepresented by the mainstream media" as are "mass shootings" and other feel-in-the gut topics to sway mentally inept voters.

I might have a slightly different perspective as a veteran. Not everyone who owns a firearm is a criminal. In fact, almost NONE of us are. Even if you choose not to carry, wouldn't you want someone who's not a criminal on your side in case something goes wrong? You don't carry a spare tire in your car expecting to use it, but it's there just in case.

All I can say is if your primary source is a secondary source (CNN, CBS, MSNBC, Fox News, or worse facebook) for your perception of the world, you should get off the internet and go places, meet people and see things.

Fear people, not things; for in people can lie a true evil you have likely yet to see.

 

[JayceeP]

I pretty much agree wth all of that. On the mentality part: I wasn't trying to generalize or equate the US to mass shootings. I really meant it in the sense that (from my observations) in the US many people would feel the need to take a gun wherever they go and there are certainly looser rules around gun ownership stateside... which is fine too. Just different than what I am used to, that's all.

Also, not sure why the insinuation I gather my info from certain sources. This forum alone easily demonstrates the differences. Pretty sure there is a whole thread dedicated to the best way to store a handgun in the centre console lol.

Edit: I don't know why my subject line has a sad face...

 

[mizzouxc]

I pretty much agree wth all of that. On the mentality part: I wasn't trying to generalize or equate the US to mass shootings. I really meant it in the sense that (from my observations) in the US many people would feel the need to take a gun wherever they go and there are certainly looser rules around gun ownership stateside... which is fine too. Just different than what I am used to, that's all.

Also, not sure why the insinuation I gather my info from certain sources. This forum alone easily demonstrates the differences. Pretty sure there is a whole thread dedicated to the best way to store a handgun in the centre console lol.

Edit: I don't know why my subject line has a sad face...

It's alright.

It's just the only sources spouting "America's gun violence problems and negative attitudes" are the 2nd hand news sources.

The mentality behind wanting to carry is that of, at least in my case, personal responsibility. I don't demand or expect the local authorities to protect myself or my family; inside or outside my home.

The US does have a gang problem; which is where most of this stems from. I've encountered them a few times in the city I live in. A lot of it stems from drugs and greed.

This is going to be touchy, but this may also have a bit to do with the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada
vs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

The rules are looser in some areas than others. In some states (MO, KS, OK) I can carry without fear of becoming a felon for merely having a firearm. If I carried the exact same manner in CA, NJ, IL, or NY I would be in prison for a good portion of my life.

Firearms are just an object. No need to fear 'em.

 

[Elan_]

It will allow use of deadly force against ... any forcible felony."

Absolutely asinine. You know what can be a felony in Missouri? Ridiculously minuscule stuff. Open fire boys! You have a right to end someone's life because they took something of yours!

eliminating training requirements for concealed carry that are currently mandatory in the state.

Great. That's just the greatest idea. I mean top shelf thinking.

 

[mizzouxc]

Absolutely asinine. You know what can be a felony in Missouri? Ridiculously minuscule stuff. Open fire boys! You have a right to end someone's life because they took something of yours!



Great. That's just the greatest idea. I mean top shelf thinking.

I knew we'd fish one out of the lake. :fish2:

What gave them the right to violate your home and threaten your family inside your home? There need to be deterrents for criminal behavior.

I bet you're all for unrestricted abortion though. What did those babies do wrong? At least the criminal had a choice in life before threatening my family's safety.

I will NEVER stand and make excuses for criminals. They made their bed, let them sleep in it.

 

[Dropzone]

Spent 7 years in the Army Infantry. Taught weapons safety etc. I have no problems with concealed carry etc however I am for a certification for concealed carry.
Some folks just don't know how to handle a weapon and need to be properly trained.
When I got my CCW in 1990 you had to display proficiency on the range. That is no longer the case.
Carry a weapon you need to spend time on the range.
Just my two cents...

 

[Ol'Blue]

Absolutely asinine. You know what can be a felony in Missouri? Ridiculously minuscule stuff. Open fire boys! You have a right to end someone's life because they took something of yours!



Great. That's just the greatest idea. I mean top shelf thinking.

Let stop and think about this fpr a minute then. So if someone has taken the actions to do harm to you how would you handle it. I really am interested in your thought process on this one. Are you male or female because I'm asking for my next question when I follow up.

I'll start with this example since you brought up a great example of taking things. If someone car jacked you at gun point what would you do? This is good examples for discussions sessions.

I'll be waiting.

Blue

 

[Ol'Blue]

Absolutely asinine. You know what can be a felony in Missouri? Ridiculously minuscule stuff. Open fire boys! You have a right to end someone's life because they took something of yours!



Great. That's just the greatest idea. I mean top shelf thinking.

I have one other question I'll throw out there also for the critical thinking portion.

It took over 2/3 in both the House and the Senate to over ride the govern on this issue. Do you think that 2/3 I'm both the house and the Senate don't have the ability to address a bigger issue. Maybe this was a good solution to violence that is happening in in the state because there is not a cop on every street corner????

Blue

 

[Elan_]

What gave them the right to violate your home and threaten your family inside your home? There need to be deterrents for criminal behavior.

I bet you're all for unrestricted abortion though. What did those babies do wrong? At least the criminal had a choice in life before threatening my family's safety.

I will NEVER stand and make excuses for criminals. They made their bed, let them sleep in it.

Seriously though, my mind is blown. If your son didn't clean his room why not just break his arms and his legs? Because that's the stupidest thing you've ever heard, isn't it? Shooting people for crimes that even the state does not punish by death is absolutely mind boggling.

You said nothing about the removal of mandatory training so I'm assuming you think that's a stellar idea too.

And as a side note from left field, I haven't a clue what abortion has anything to do with this. You think my views on gun laws are informed by my views on abortion (which you got 100% wrong, FYI)? You're grasping at straws.

 

[Elan_]

Let stop and think about this fpr a minute then. So if someone has taken the actions to do harm to you how would you handle it. I really am interested in your thought process on this one. Are you male or female because I'm asking for my next question when I follow up.

I'll start with this example since you brought up a great example of taking things. If someone car jacked you at gun point what would you do?

Well, I don't own a hand gun and I don't think toting around a .22 rifle would be an effective countermeasure. If someone car jacked me at gun point, I'd give them my car.

You've deliberately built a straw man so you could make your argument make sense. I said nothing about car jacking at gun point. I personally would not shoot someone for car jacking me at gun point even if I had a gun. I wouldn't be opposed to a law that permitted it, but I likely would not do it.

You know what's a felony in Missouri? Passing a bad check. "any forcible felony" is so ridiculously broad.


Edit: “Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.” Oh man, seeing that signature, that's just icing on the cake. I couldn't write better comedy than this.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Well, I don't own a hand gun and I don't think toting around a .22 rifle would be an effective countermeasure. If someone car jacked me at gun point, I'd give them my car.

You've deliberately built a straw man so you could make your argument make sense. I said nothing about car jacking at gun point. I personally would not shoot someone for car jacking me at gun point even if I had a gun. I wouldn't be opposed to a law that permitted it, but I likely would not do it.

You know what's a felony in Missouri? Passing a bad check. "any forcible felony" is so ridiculously broad.


Edit: “Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.” Oh man, seeing that signature, that's just icing on the cake. I couldn't write better comedy than this.

Bottom line is guns aren't for everyone. I personally think it's good to see states go to a constitutional carry policy. If you don't want a gun don't buy one. You see and hear of very few legal gun owners having bad shoots. But guns though out the the country are used for protection at a very high rate. I never had a desire to get my permit until I had a gun brandished at me. We dove in to the house we were working on and called the cops. Cops showed up about 15 minutes later and told us to carry openly or get a concealed permit or don't working the area. Because he and his partner didn't want to get called to our murder. That's was enough for me.

If you feel that your life is not in danger when you go out then fine. If you feel that ha being an officer respond in 3-30 minutes if you need them great. I for one want to be able to defend myself until the officer shows up that I called in the first place. I will call the police first and foremost. But if I have to defend myself I would rather "Have and not need then need and not have".


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