oldmansimek
New member
I will be keeping my eye on this, please keep us up to date on how you like this lift. This is exactly what I have planned for mine except I will do UCA's at the same time.
My 2007 Limited V8 Ownership Journal
- Thread starter Timberland
- Start date
Timberland
New member
That's something worth looking into. I'd rather not shell out for the higher end arms if I can avoid it, but I'm concerned with some of the long term results I've seen from the cheaper ones (cracked welds?). I've seen some posts about broken arms being warrantied so maybe they've redesigned them since then? My driver's upper ball joint is leaking so as much as I hate to spend even more money, I think I'm going to have to do something.
I plan on selling the limited 18s although I agree with you about them being the nicest looking wheel. The size just doesn't work for me. I've shipped wheels long distances to buyers before and the shipping cost isn't pretty. They would end up costing you too much for wheels with some pitting on them.
This is the thread to come to if you're looking for more info on the Fox 2.0 stuff! I plan on updating often but if there's anything specific you're looking for, feel free to ask. As I said in the original post, I really want to add value to a forum that helped me so much when I was truck shopping. I can tell you that so far I'm blown away by the ride quality. I was nervous from some of the general online reviews about these being super stiff but I assure you, they're not. They feel firmer and more controlled, but definitely not stiffer. The best way to describe it is that it feels like the truck has longer, smoother legs under it when hitting big bumps and dips. The big sidewall on the tires helps a lot too. At this point I recommend the Fox 2.0 100%. I'll keep you posted as time goes on.
vandert
New member
I did alot of shopping and ended up with the SPC arms - I couldn't be happier with them right now as well. I will tell you I got them shipped to my door for under 400 with no extra coupons via Prime, no-one could come close to that anywhere else. They are listed now for 411 as well but I think i got lucky.
The ball joints are beefy, the bushings are poly, and ribbed for the grease, the grease the include is good stuff, and mine make no noise. I have mine set at the D level which is supposed to be +2.0 and my alignment came in at 3.6 and 3.5 positive caster, drives so much better.
It was between these and the Camberg Moog upper arms, with the trailmasters being considered as well but it looks like the trailmaster used mevotech ball joints and I have busted some of those. In the end I couldn't beat the SPC/Lightning racing arms for the price. Camberg was close second but was almost 200 more. I ended up wanting the adjustability, IF I had to choose another set - JBA's came in a little late for me but I ran Jeeps and my wife has a Jeep so when I saw he was doing our upper A Arms I wanted them, just ended up SPC's due to the price.
So - my research the best in my price range was: SPC, JBA, Camber Moog ball joint version - Then Trailmaster and Ebay arms - Silver Suicides they ahve been getting called -seemed to have the same/simular reviews.
In Canadian winters- i would go with either the SPC, or the JBA's as the balljoints are easier to remove and replace, with that being said, the JBA's are a 4 bolt setup and not pressed in so will be best for your harsch winters and salt on the road IMO. Sorry for spelling, got a new bottle of scotch tonight, evidentally its effecting my typing lol
The ball joints are beefy, the bushings are poly, and ribbed for the grease, the grease the include is good stuff, and mine make no noise. I have mine set at the D level which is supposed to be +2.0 and my alignment came in at 3.6 and 3.5 positive caster, drives so much better.
It was between these and the Camberg Moog upper arms, with the trailmasters being considered as well but it looks like the trailmaster used mevotech ball joints and I have busted some of those. In the end I couldn't beat the SPC/Lightning racing arms for the price. Camberg was close second but was almost 200 more. I ended up wanting the adjustability, IF I had to choose another set - JBA's came in a little late for me but I ran Jeeps and my wife has a Jeep so when I saw he was doing our upper A Arms I wanted them, just ended up SPC's due to the price.
So - my research the best in my price range was: SPC, JBA, Camber Moog ball joint version - Then Trailmaster and Ebay arms - Silver Suicides they ahve been getting called -seemed to have the same/simular reviews.
In Canadian winters- i would go with either the SPC, or the JBA's as the balljoints are easier to remove and replace, with that being said, the JBA's are a 4 bolt setup and not pressed in so will be best for your harsch winters and salt on the road IMO. Sorry for spelling, got a new bottle of scotch tonight, evidentally its effecting my typing lol
Timberland
New member
Good to know, thanks for the feedback.
black4vcobra
New member
Nice stable of rides, I bet that MR2 feels real fast with 400 rwhp. My Cobra dyno'ed at 456 rwhp and feels but your car is likely 800+ lbs lighter.
Your 4Runner will look great on the street/trail with the lift and wheels/tires!
Your 4Runner will look great on the street/trail with the lift and wheels/tires!
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Timberland
New member
Thanks! Yeah the car is pretty quick. But you know how it is, after a certain amount of time you get used to the power and it doesn't feel as fast anymore. I think I'm going to leave it the way it is for a pretty long time though.
Timberland
New member
Doug Thorley Headers Up Close:
Let me start by saying that this thread is about honest reviews and opinions. I do not kiss companies' butts regardless of how popular they are in the community. I haven't done it in the MR2 world, and I won't do it here. If something is great, I'm going to say it. If something sucks, well, I'm going to say that too.
I've read a lot of positive feedback about these headers on here so far. I'm very grateful to Doug Thorley for providing us 4.7 owners a permanent solution to cracked manifolds. I believe these are the best option for anyone looking to improve on the oem manifold design. However I feel like I need to share my own experience/opinion in the hopes of helping other potential buyers manage their expectations.
Let's start with the performance claims. I noticed in another thread that [MENTION=130999]Inv4drZm[/MENTION] had questioned the claims of 30+hp and 30+ft lbs. I agree with him - this is a bit misleading. You will NOT make 30+ peak horsepower. As you can see in the graph, these gains are at a random part of the curve. An improvement, yes, but we won't be jumping to 290hp by upgrading to headers. I also say "random part of the curve" because for some reason they've logged MPH instead of RPM. This doesn't tell us much about where the power increases actually are in the rev range.
There was a 2 month wait for these to show up. Before I ordered them, they told the distributor "they're in stock". After I ordered them, that changed to "hopefully we have enough materials here to make them". Then there was something about switching to a different coating place blah blah. This took 2 months, with only the last week being accounted for shipping. Not the longest I've had to wait for parts by any means, but certainly not the quickest either. I should also mention that I purchased these locally and not from the board member here that sells them. (None of my experience reflects him or his business, it looks like he has a good relationship with DT and gets them quickly)
So how's the build quality of these headers? Well, one of them looks pretty good. The ceramic coating looks nice. The emblem tacked onto the driver's side header is a nice touch. The welds on this one look decent (not perfect, but that's understandable for a header done by hand).
As for the other one, I'm sorry but it looks like dog crap. These were clearly not built by the same person. This one looks like the flange was welded by Hellen Keller Customs. I was surprised that a company as reputable as DT would allow this to pass their quality control.
I showed this one to a friend of mine that's a mechanic and drag racer. He doesn't think the mess will affect the flow too much. Honestly I'm more concerned with longevity than performance here. As long as the welds are strong, I'm good. But I paid for the same performance as everyone else did, so I expect to get the same.
Hopefully this isn't a functional issue and it's all just cosmetic. Let's face it, this won't be seen after they're installed anyways. But I believe in taking pride in your work and the craftsmanship just isn't there on this specific header. It's disappointing to see such a quality company cut a corner like this.
Regardless, I'm still happy with my purchase. People seem very pleased with the improvements these headers make ( [MENTION=101553]t-man[/MENTION] has mentioned how much he loves them a few times). I expect to be just as pleased once these are installed. A bit more low end torque is just what the doctor ordered for this rig. I still believe these are the best option out there for replacing cracked manifolds. I'm just a little let down with the level of workmanship. These aren't $250 Ebay headers. These cost me $1000 cad all said and done, as well as a 2 month wait. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I expected a bit better quality. I'm sure this feeling will go away once they're on though, and I'll love the change in the 4.7's character.
Some key points:
Pros:
- Fantastic design
- Ceramic coating (mine were among the first batch of their new supplier)
- Cost
- Lifetime warranty
- New gaskets included
Cons:
- Potentially confusing performance claims
- Delivery time
- Quality control issues (aesthetic)
Let me start by saying that this thread is about honest reviews and opinions. I do not kiss companies' butts regardless of how popular they are in the community. I haven't done it in the MR2 world, and I won't do it here. If something is great, I'm going to say it. If something sucks, well, I'm going to say that too.
I've read a lot of positive feedback about these headers on here so far. I'm very grateful to Doug Thorley for providing us 4.7 owners a permanent solution to cracked manifolds. I believe these are the best option for anyone looking to improve on the oem manifold design. However I feel like I need to share my own experience/opinion in the hopes of helping other potential buyers manage their expectations.
Let's start with the performance claims. I noticed in another thread that [MENTION=130999]Inv4drZm[/MENTION] had questioned the claims of 30+hp and 30+ft lbs. I agree with him - this is a bit misleading. You will NOT make 30+ peak horsepower. As you can see in the graph, these gains are at a random part of the curve. An improvement, yes, but we won't be jumping to 290hp by upgrading to headers. I also say "random part of the curve" because for some reason they've logged MPH instead of RPM. This doesn't tell us much about where the power increases actually are in the rev range.
There was a 2 month wait for these to show up. Before I ordered them, they told the distributor "they're in stock". After I ordered them, that changed to "hopefully we have enough materials here to make them". Then there was something about switching to a different coating place blah blah. This took 2 months, with only the last week being accounted for shipping. Not the longest I've had to wait for parts by any means, but certainly not the quickest either. I should also mention that I purchased these locally and not from the board member here that sells them. (None of my experience reflects him or his business, it looks like he has a good relationship with DT and gets them quickly)
So how's the build quality of these headers? Well, one of them looks pretty good. The ceramic coating looks nice. The emblem tacked onto the driver's side header is a nice touch. The welds on this one look decent (not perfect, but that's understandable for a header done by hand).
As for the other one, I'm sorry but it looks like dog crap. These were clearly not built by the same person. This one looks like the flange was welded by Hellen Keller Customs. I was surprised that a company as reputable as DT would allow this to pass their quality control.
I showed this one to a friend of mine that's a mechanic and drag racer. He doesn't think the mess will affect the flow too much. Honestly I'm more concerned with longevity than performance here. As long as the welds are strong, I'm good. But I paid for the same performance as everyone else did, so I expect to get the same.
Hopefully this isn't a functional issue and it's all just cosmetic. Let's face it, this won't be seen after they're installed anyways. But I believe in taking pride in your work and the craftsmanship just isn't there on this specific header. It's disappointing to see such a quality company cut a corner like this.
Regardless, I'm still happy with my purchase. People seem very pleased with the improvements these headers make ( [MENTION=101553]t-man[/MENTION] has mentioned how much he loves them a few times). I expect to be just as pleased once these are installed. A bit more low end torque is just what the doctor ordered for this rig. I still believe these are the best option out there for replacing cracked manifolds. I'm just a little let down with the level of workmanship. These aren't $250 Ebay headers. These cost me $1000 cad all said and done, as well as a 2 month wait. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I expected a bit better quality. I'm sure this feeling will go away once they're on though, and I'll love the change in the 4.7's character.
Some key points:
Pros:
- Fantastic design
- Ceramic coating (mine were among the first batch of their new supplier)
- Cost
- Lifetime warranty
- New gaskets included
Cons:
- Potentially confusing performance claims
- Delivery time
- Quality control issues (aesthetic)
Good honest review!
Time will tell about these, but so far I find them great quality and design. I don't know why they put that graph in MPH, seems funky, and I never had them on the stock exhaust for comparison, but they made one Helluva difference with my full system! I was genuinely impressed. I would love to get a tuner and have everything dialed in though. Have a dyno tune to see what I can get.
Time will tell about these, but so far I find them great quality and design. I don't know why they put that graph in MPH, seems funky, and I never had them on the stock exhaust for comparison, but they made one Helluva difference with my full system! I was genuinely impressed. I would love to get a tuner and have everything dialed in though. Have a dyno tune to see what I can get.
Timberland
New member
Did your welds look anything like mine?
Timberland
New member
Figured now was a good time for some updated pics. Coilovers need to be adjusted up an inch (just ordered LCAs and cam bolts today), windows need to be tinted, running boards need to come off etc. But she's getting there. At this point I'm finally starting to fall in love with this thing. I can visualize the end product in my head, just gotta get there.
Timberland
New member
Even with it raised up an inch, it'll still have a bit of rake but I did that on purpose to allow myself room for it to sag when I have it loaded up. The way it is now is just too much though.
Looks like the previous owner hit the emblems with plastidip. Not sure if I'm going to leave them or not. I likely will since it'll all tie in once the headlight housings are painted and windows are tinted. Opinions?
vandert
New member
IMO looks perfect as is - just tint the windows and get sliders to replace the running boards. I wouldn't even mess with the lights honestly except maybe some clear laminx over them to protect them. I even like the bug shield on it and I hate those things
Timberland
New member
IMO looks perfect as is - just tint the windows and get sliders to replace the running boards. I wouldn't even mess with the lights honestly except maybe some clear laminx over them to protect them. I even like the bug shield on it and I hate those things
I'm slightly on the fence about whether or not to do the headlights too. If I leave them alone, I'd go back to chrome emblems as well. Always liked that look on a grey Toyota truck.
The original owner spent the extra money for a Toyota brand bug deflector and rubber cargo cover. I would never shell out for that stuff myself, but I know how expensive they can be so I'm happy to have them!
rickashay
New member
Looks awesome! Nice to see it all come together...
I actually don't mind the rake. But it depends on how your going to use the truck too I guess. If you plan on loading it up often full of camping gear, the rake will level out and it will look good. But if you're mostly going to daily it and keep it fairly mild then the extra inch up front will look perfect.
Well done.
I actually don't mind the rake. But it depends on how your going to use the truck too I guess. If you plan on loading it up often full of camping gear, the rake will level out and it will look good. But if you're mostly going to daily it and keep it fairly mild then the extra inch up front will look perfect.
Well done.
Timberland
New member
Well winter has hit a little earlier than normal, and I've had the chance to drive around in the snow a bit. What a beast! So far I'm very very pleased with the way it behaves in winter conditions. A few notes:
1. Live in a climate with lots of winter driving? Do yourself a favor and get a set of Goodyear Duratracs. Loved them on my Jeep, love them even more on the Runner. I can't think of any other tire that's as capable both off road and in slippery snow/ice conditions. I just drove my parent's Camry with the new Michelin X-ice3 snow tires and the braking and turning characteristics are very similar. The siping is the key here.
2. AWD comparison between the Runner and the Jeep's Quadradrive. The Toyota is doing better here than I expected considering it's electronic vs. basically a whole system built out of LSDs. The bigger tires could be making a difference here. I have yet to spend some time in DEEP snow. The jury is still out, but so far I'm pleasantly surprised.
3. VSC is annoying when I'm trying to party in corners. Not sure if it's safe to drive with the center diff locked on snowy streets to disable it? If not, I might have to look into the VSC-off mod. I will say it actually does do a decent job of straightening the vehicle out compared to other VSC equipped vehicles I've driven.
4. The Fox suspension is handling the cold temps perfectly. My buddy told me the other night that his TRD Pro Bilsteins are frozen every morning and take a bit of driving to loosen up. Strange.
5. -25C with the wind chill last night. Really glad the previous owner sprung for a remote starter so I don't have to!
6. The Runner is currently sitting outside covered in snow, slush, ice, road salt etc. and still is NOT oil sprayed yet. This is killing me because these Yotas will start to rust if you walk past them in the summer time wearing a Christmas sweater. My cam bolts showed up yesterday so I'm just waiting on the LCAs to arrive so we can adjust the coilovers, THEN I can get it sprayed. I'm embarrassed to admit that I've literally lost a bit of sleep over this.:ybrick: I have no choice but to wait till all the new hardware is on first.
Now back to romping in the snow!
1. Live in a climate with lots of winter driving? Do yourself a favor and get a set of Goodyear Duratracs. Loved them on my Jeep, love them even more on the Runner. I can't think of any other tire that's as capable both off road and in slippery snow/ice conditions. I just drove my parent's Camry with the new Michelin X-ice3 snow tires and the braking and turning characteristics are very similar. The siping is the key here.
2. AWD comparison between the Runner and the Jeep's Quadradrive. The Toyota is doing better here than I expected considering it's electronic vs. basically a whole system built out of LSDs. The bigger tires could be making a difference here. I have yet to spend some time in DEEP snow. The jury is still out, but so far I'm pleasantly surprised.
3. VSC is annoying when I'm trying to party in corners. Not sure if it's safe to drive with the center diff locked on snowy streets to disable it? If not, I might have to look into the VSC-off mod. I will say it actually does do a decent job of straightening the vehicle out compared to other VSC equipped vehicles I've driven.
4. The Fox suspension is handling the cold temps perfectly. My buddy told me the other night that his TRD Pro Bilsteins are frozen every morning and take a bit of driving to loosen up. Strange.
5. -25C with the wind chill last night. Really glad the previous owner sprung for a remote starter so I don't have to!
6. The Runner is currently sitting outside covered in snow, slush, ice, road salt etc. and still is NOT oil sprayed yet. This is killing me because these Yotas will start to rust if you walk past them in the summer time wearing a Christmas sweater. My cam bolts showed up yesterday so I'm just waiting on the LCAs to arrive so we can adjust the coilovers, THEN I can get it sprayed. I'm embarrassed to admit that I've literally lost a bit of sleep over this.:ybrick: I have no choice but to wait till all the new hardware is on first.
Now back to romping in the snow!
rickashay
New member
LOL truth. I feel you're pain! I've had mine out in the snow ONCE and I literally spent 45 mins in the car wash (and $30) rinsing the living hell out of the undercarriage. Then I limped it home from the car wash on still un-plowed city backstreets so as not to get it "seasoned" on the way home from the car wash.
I hate salt. I hate rust. And it's good to know that I am not the only one who loses sleep over it! haha
