My inexperience = blown front diff

[daniresch]

Absolutely not true. Unless you're already dual cased and dual locked, the IFS is definitely not your limiting factor.

And judging by the OP's nearly stock vehicle, IFS is going to suit him way better. I wheel with a guy with a SAS'd, dual locked 3rd gen on 35's and theres only been one situation so far where his solid front axle really shone. And even then, it was more just a case of him being able to take a less careful line. The rest of the time, I'm enjoying the smooth IFS ride while he's getting rattled to death by his leaf sprung solid axles.


And +1 for a rear locker. You'll notice a night and day difference in traction and it will help you avoid that excessive wheel spinning

The OP blew is front diff on a what looks like a speed bump.
He said he is looking to build it into a trial rig. I would SAS.


But each their own!

 

[MtnT4R]

[MENTION=79826]absalom[/MENTION] .... ONLY because of the locker?

Exactly. You can clearly hear the lifted 4Runner's tires spinning, then grabbing, then spinning- that oscillating noise. That is how an 'open' differential operates. It will supply more power to tires that lose traction, which in a lot of cases just makes the situation worse(they're really designed for casual offroad, not crawling). A locked differential supplies even amounts of power to all tires constantly, which is why the first vehicle cruised through that rut with no spinning at all.

Keep in mind that while bigger tires to make a difference, going from a 31" to a 33" really only gives you another two inches of clearance or so. You will see a much more dramatic increase in 4x4 capability by going with lockers.

 

[JohnMc]

If you just sort of idly ponder how many wheels *have* to be turning, regardless of their weighting, you'll see that:
1) 2WD open diff is a 1WD vehicle
2) 4WD with open diffs is a 2WD vehicle
3) 2WD with a locker is a 2WD vehicle
4) 4WD with a rear locker is a 3WD vehicle
5) 4WD with lockers on both ends is (finally) a 4WD vehicle

I'd say that a 2WD with a locker is almost as good as 4WD without any lockers. Better in some situations (car diagonally loaded), not as good in others (drive end of the vehicle unweighted - as in trying to back up a steep slope).

4WD with a locker - feels like cheating sometimes.

Front locker too? Yeah, it jsut goes.

Putting a front locker on an IFS 4Runner is sometimes asking for trouble though. That clamshell style diff isn't the strongest thing around, and having the least weighted wheel able to spin is a nice 'fuse' to stop you from blowing it up.

 

[MrHentoni]

If you just sort of idly ponder how many wheels *have* to be turning, regardless of their weighting, you'll see that:
1) 2WD open diff is a 1WD vehicle
2) 4WD with open diffs is a 2WD vehicle
3) 2WD with a locker is a 2WD vehicle
4) 4WD with a rear locker is a 3WD vehicle
5) 4WD with lockers on both ends is (finally) a 4WD vehicle

I'd say that a 2WD with a locker is almost as good as 4WD without any lockers. Better in some situations (car diagonally loaded), not as good in others (drive end of the vehicle unweighted - as in trying to back up a steep slope).

4WD with a locker - feels like cheating sometimes.

Front locker too? Yeah, it jsut goes.

Putting a front locker on an IFS 4Runner is sometimes asking for trouble though. That clamshell style diff isn't the strongest thing around, and having the least weighted wheel able to spin is a nice 'fuse' to stop you from blowing it up.

ALL OF THIS!!! ^

Bij, I do have a lot of the bells and whistles on mine as you know... but it has been a slow build. Plus I've been (in general) wheeling since I was able to see over the dash.

On the Runner, I started wheeling it stock and have built it to work with my wheeling style/trail preference/general usage. There are some things that some might think I did wrong or backwards, but this also isn't the first rig I've modified (not saying built, because I wrecked the other before it was done). Now that I'm getting into the rockier trails its time for skids and a rear bumper.

I will say this much, I agree with almost everyone here, the rear locker is a godsend when it comes to wheeling a 3GT4R. However, this doesn't mean wheel with it always engaged. There is definitely a finess to using the locker. I only run it when I absolutely need to. I pretty much run everything in RWD(1 wheel moving the vehicle) until I need more. Depending on the situation, I'll either engage the locker (grey wire mod) or throw it in 4WHigh, whichever will be more beneficial at that time. Then add in whichever I didn't use previously and then 4WLow, or like I said, whatever combo is best at the time.

If you ride with me tomorow, I'll show you what I'm talking about. I know that I peronally am a very visual/hands on learner, so maybe watching/riding along will help you too!

 

[dunktap]

https://vimeo.com/147869617 before I try this again I think I'll get a rear Arb locker. I hate having to use momentum to get over obstacles although not having a locker has taught me how to take proper lines.

 

[Bijan]

Exactly. You can clearly hear the lifted 4Runner's tires spinning, then grabbing, then spinning- that oscillating noise. That is how an 'open' differential operates. It will supply more power to tires that lose traction, which in a lot of cases just makes the situation worse(they're really designed for casual offroad, not crawling). A locked differential supplies even amounts of power to all tires constantly, which is why the first vehicle cruised through that rut with no spinning at all.
Keep in mind that while bigger tires to make a difference, going from a 31" to a 33" really only gives you another two inches of clearance or so. You will see a much more dramatic increase in 4x4 capability by going with lockers.

Yep, sounds like mine did. I have 285/75/16 Duratrac's....and Im pretty sure I didnt air down that day b/c it was such a mild trail until that part.
Maybe 35" in the future but no bigger.

If you just sort of idly ponder how many wheels *have* to be turning, regardless of their weighting, you'll see that:
1) 2WD open diff is a 1WD vehicle
2) 4WD with open diffs is a 2WD vehicle
3) 2WD with a locker is a 2WD vehicle
4) 4WD with a rear locker is a 3WD vehicle
5) 4WD with lockers on both ends is (finally) a 4WD vehicle

I'd say that a 2WD with a locker is almost as good as 4WD without any lockers. Better in some situations (car diagonally loaded), not as good in others (drive end of the vehicle unweighted - as in trying to back up a steep slope).

4WD with a locker - feels like cheating sometimes.

Front locker too? Yeah, it jsut goes.

Putting a front locker on an IFS 4Runner is sometimes asking for trouble though. That clamshell style diff isn't the strongest thing around, and having the least weighted wheel able to spin is a nice 'fuse' to stop you from blowing it up.

Good information. Thanks. So re-gear and add rear locker. Eventually. :toilet:

ALL OF THIS!!! ^

Bij, I do have a lot of the bells and whistles on mine as you know... but it has been a slow build. Plus I've been (in general) wheeling since I was able to see over the dash.

On the Runner, I started wheeling it stock and have built it to work with my wheeling style/trail preference/general usage. There are some things that some might think I did wrong or backwards, but this also isn't the first rig I've modified (not saying built, because I wrecked the other before it was done). Now that I'm getting into the rockier trails its time for skids and a rear bumper.

I will say this much, I agree with almost everyone here, the rear locker is a godsend when it comes to wheeling a 3GT4R. However, this doesn't mean wheel with it always engaged. There is definitely a finess to using the locker. I only run it when I absolutely need to. I pretty much run everything in RWD(1 wheel moving the vehicle) until I need more. Depending on the situation, I'll either engage the locker (grey wire mod) or throw it in 4WHigh, whichever will be more beneficial at that time. Then add in whichever I didn't use previously and then 4WLow, or like I said, whatever combo is best at the time.

If you ride with me tomorow, I'll show you what I'm talking about. I know that I peronally am a very visual/hands on learner, so maybe watching/riding along will help you too!

Should I bring my rig or ride with you?
You can ride locked in 4HI?

I've been mostly a rice burner my whole life...as you know I'm super green to off roading.

https://vimeo.com/147869617 before I try this again I think I'll get a rear Arb locker. I hate having to use momentum to get over obstacles although not having a locker has taught me how to take proper lines.

Dang dude, see I feel like stock components (gears / diffs) should be able to let us crawl up without gunning it. You obviously know how to find the right line and when to press the skinny pedal tho...I just do the "Jeremy Clarkson"

 

[MrHentoni]

Should I bring my rig or ride with you?
You can ride locked in 4HI?

I've been mostly a rice burner my whole life...as you know I'm super green to off roading.

How bout you bring it up and we can leave it at the trailhead. We'll go play in the playground and see how you're feeling. We'll evaluate from there.

Yes I can, cut one wire, run both ends on a switch (so as to not mess with shift patterns) and has the 3rd prong to ground it (allowing me to engage even in 2WD). I left the 5MPH safety switch in tact.

We'll get you there, its a whole new learning curve, just takes time.

 

[absalom]

Yep, sounds like mine did. I have 285/75/16 Duratrac's....and Im pretty sure I didnt air down that day b/c it was such a mild trail until that part.

Dude, if I even see a picture of some dirt in a magazine, I automatically drop it down to 15 psi.

Along with what others have said, SAS.

The IFS is always going to hold you back on the trail, and keep you worried about whats going to break next.

IFS is certainly NOT the limiting factor with these trucks, or else the big Ultra4 teams wouldn't all be moving to it.

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part of it is that the second truck is on lifted ifs with the sway bar still on, and he also took the wrong line. my truck walked right up this with no tire spin. and yes locked front and rear will get you up an obstacle easier, but it doesnt solve every problem. you were spinning all four tires on a few spots because your low hanging axles were catching on a mound of dirt, and then right after that you crushed your running boards. Thats where the big tires come in handy, all the guys that i wheel with that have 80 series are running 37" tires because the way they have the solid axles set up with the radius arms and other low hanging components need a lot more ground clearance not get bashed up constantly. having more clearance gives you more options for picking different lines, just like having a locker, and having more articulation. [MENTION=120787]Bijan[/MENTION] you also know about airing down your tires right?

Don't you have ATRAC tho on your 02?

 

[D Farms]

Dude, if I even see a picture of some dirt in a magazine, I automatically drop it down to 15 psi.

IFS is certainly NOT the limiting factor with these trucks, or else the big Ultra4 teams wouldn't all be moving to it.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aAa55TbB8XM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Don't you have ATRAC tho on your 02?

yes but I usually leave it off unless I get stuck. its hard on the brakes and hard on the diffs too because it hammers the brakes to try to stop the wheel from spinning and this puts a lot of force on the diff. perhaps thats the reason in failed. got the circuit all done now anyways for my elocker so that wont really be an issue.