Need Alignment Help - Lifted w/ LR UCAs

[ugamurph]

I'm looking for some knowledgable advice and suggestions to help resolve a possible alignment problem.

I have a 2001 4runner lifted 2-1/2 to 3" with OME 883/891. I recently installed new LBJs, Safari Steering rack, Outer TREs and
Light Racing adjustable UCAs. Naturally, all of these repairs require an alignment. I do not have an adjustable panhard or panhard drop bracket to realign the rear axle. It is shifted to the passenger side approximately 3/4" to 1"

When I installed the UCAs, I installed the upper ball joint in the "D" position for +2.0* of caster change over the OEM ball joint caster setting (see chart below). And the UBJs are slid all the way outboard for the UCAs camber adjustment.

When I took my truck to be aligned, I told the tech to use the OEM specs. He did not change any of the UCA's settings and only used the stock cams to adjust camber/caster. Here are the before and after specs:

Obviously, all of the settings are within spec after the alignment. But, when I'm driving the truck pulls to the left and the steering wheel has to be held a few degrees to the right to stay in a lane. The steering also feels a little loose and "darty". It's much better than with the old rack, but not quite the feel that it should have. (Yes, all parts are correctly installed and torqued.)

I have a few questions to spark the discussion.

Looking at the above spec sheet, are there any telltale signs that would lead to the left pull or loose steering feel?

Should I add more caster to improve the feel of the steering?

Are there any settings that should deviate from the original specs because of the truck being lifted and/or because of the LR UCAs?

For those with LR UCAs with similar lift setups... Any advice for where the UCAs UBJ should be set for optimum caster and camber settings?

I am considering either an adjustable panhard or a drop bracket. Could the rear axle being shifted to the right side contribute to the left pull?

I realize that a dragging left brake or tire induced pull could be the issue. I'll be checking those to make sure they aren't the cause.

Thanks in advance for your advice and suggestions.

 

[Desert36]

How did he adjust your left rear toe?, why did he not even out the front l/r camber?..... His machine sucks and he doesn't understand alignment?... Tighten your right side steering knuckle 1/2 turn and test drive, should be a quick fix for now... I do all my alignments on a level pad with strings and bob weights markings, then measure out for desired alignment, I like to start at 0 toe and caster with the camber set at -.5°, I like to be able to have my wheel straight and if I let it go for a sec on the highway it tracks straight, now road crowns will have something to do with this so test drive on your most traveled route... Forget about some performance spec, everything changes with travel rate, tires, etc. vehicle to vehicle.

 

[NCrunner2012]

It really depends on how bad the truck is pulling. Most roads are built with a slight degree (crown) to them to make the rain drain off better.
When I used to do alignments, they used to tell us to account for the crown of the road. We did this by setting the toe a few degrees to the left on both wheels keeping it in the green.

Does it still pull if you drive in the far left lane on the freeway? If it doesn't pull or it it pulls less then you could try and have them adjust the alignment.

Just a thought

 

[ugamurph]

It really depends on how bad the truck is pulling. Most roads are built with a slight degree (crown) to them to make the rain drain off better.
When I used to do alignments, they used to tell us to account for the crown of the road. We did this by setting the toe a few degrees to the left on both wheels keeping it in the green.

Does it still pull if you drive in the far left lane on the freeway? If it doesn't pull or it it pulls less then you could try and have them adjust the alignment.

Just a thought

I thought I had mentioned that in the original post. Thanks to Tapatalk crashing, I lost some of what I had typed originally.

Anyway. Yes, it pulls left no matter which way the superelevation (side to side grade) of the lane slopes. Naturally, it pulls less on the right side of the crown with a left to right downward superelevation. It pulls more on the left side of the crown.

 

[eddiebx]

I'm trying to understand what the guy did...you went in with a pretty healthy amount of caster, and left with less? I would go back and tell him to dial the caster back to +4, I think that's what's causing your floating feeling...also have him zero out the camber if he can...

Coincidentally, I also just put in my LR UCAs and got my alignment done today, lol. My caster is at +4 (driver) and +3.8 (passenger), camber is +/-0.1 both sides, and roughly the same toe out as you. Drives pretty straight and non-floating feeling at all...

One thing I might be tempted to try before going back and complaining about the alignment is to cross rotate your tires all around and see if that affects the pulling at all.

I don't know if you even need to worry about an adjustable panhard bar yet either, my thrust angle is actually a tiny bit higher than yours (-.018deg).

I vote for trying to figure it out and fix it as is before throwing more parts at it

 

[masson74]

I have LR UCAs and Icon Coilovers. Make sure you don't have too much lift dialed into the front coilover to compensate for the driver side lean. I had done this and it caused it to pull left especially when braking. I set both shocks at the same amount of lift had it realigned and problem was solved. Prior to that I had the same issue as you are having

My 2 cents

 

[ugamurph]

I would go back and tell him to dial the caster back to +4, I think that's what's causing your floating feeling...also have him zero out the camber if he can...

My caster is at +4 (driver) and +3.8 (passenger), camber is +/-0.1 both sides, and roughly the same toe out as you. Drives pretty straight and non-floating feeling at all...

One thing I might be tempted to try before going back and complaining about the alignment is to cross rotate your tires all around and see if that affects the pulling at all.

I don't know if you even need to worry about an adjustable panhard bar yet either, my thrust angle is actually a tiny bit higher than yours (-.018deg).

Thanks for that info. I planned on cross rotating the tires to eliminate the tire induced pull as a cause. I was thinking the same thing on the caster. When I went in, the steering felt more like it should. Now it's back to the loose and wandering feel. I probably won't do the panhard or bracket as you suggest. I didn't think thrust angle looked too bad. But, I'm not an alignment expert either.

Where is your LR UBJ setup?

This is helpful.

I have LR UCAs and Icon Coilovers. Make sure you don't have too much lift dialed into the front coilover to compensate for the driver side lean.

I bought my Old Man Emu coilovers from Toytec assembled. They don't have any adjustability except for a "trim packer" that Toytec added. According to their website it's used to lift the vehicle 5mm in the front to compensate for drivers side lean.

 

[eddiebx]

Thanks for that info. I planned on cross rotating the tires to eliminate the tire induced pull as a cause. I was thinking the same thing on the caster. When I went in, the steering felt more like it should. Now it's back to the loose and wandering feel. I probably won't do the panhard or bracket as you suggest. I didn't think thrust angle looked too bad. But, I'm not an alignment expert either.

Where is your LR UBJ setup?

This is helpful.



I bought my Old Man Emu coilovers from Toytec assembled. They don't have any adjustability except for a "trim packer" that Toytec added. According to their website it's used to lift the vehicle 5mm in the front to compensate for drivers side lean.

I have mine at the "D" setting just like you, and I have the camber dialed to roughly the half way point (~1/4-3/8" inwards). If your LCA cam bolts are already maxed for camber correction, maybe you can try dialing some positive camber at the UCA?

 

[ugamurph]

If your LCA cam bolts are already maxed for camber correction, maybe you can try dialing some positive camber at the UCA?

I think the camber setting is ok other than the fact that he didn't set it even. The caster definitely needs some adjusting. I'll probably call LR's tech line tomorrow to pick their brains about it.

 

[TNRunner99]

Were you able to clear the issue up? I read in another post that some had similar issues and were running STTs. Did you try rotating the tires around to see what happened?

 

[ugamurph]

Were you able to clear the issue up? I read in another post that some had similar issues and were running STTs. Did you try rotating the tires around to see what happened?

I don't think the problem is associated with the tires. I've had them rotated and also had the alignment redone at another shop. It is much better, but the steering wheel is still off center and there is still a slight wandering feeling.

I noticed that I have a problem with excessive play in the steering wheel. I started looking into the possible causes. Of course, all of the usual symptoms such as tie rod ends, steering gear, ball joints, etc. don't apply to my truck because they are all new parts. My research then led me to this: play in the steering wheel fix. There is a slip joint in the steering shaft that has a loose fit and allows the play.

I believe when the alignment shop tries to straighten the steering wheel, the lower steering shaft doesn't get "straight". Then all of the adjustments are thrown off from there on. I have also determined that the wandering feeling is due to the delay in steering response created by the play in that steering shaft joint.

I'm going to fix the steering wheel slop and take my truck back for another alignment. (I did get a lifetime alignment.) Hopefully that will fix the problem.

I'll report back later.