need help for brake problem

[HiluxSurf SSR-G]

Vehicle: 2000 KZN185W Hilux Surf (3rd gen 4Runner)
with ABS


I had the goodridge braided brake lines (2 fronts/rear center installed in 2008) replaced with StopTech braided lines. the MC piston was also replaced with a Toyota repair kit. no problem with the brakes prior to replacement except for the brake fluid becoming dark after a few hundred km. i thought the blackening was caused by a leak in the lines somewhere so i had the 3 lines replaced. when opened, the MC had no scratches and the piston kit didn't have any excessive wear. The MC piston kit was previously replaced in 2019 using Toyota repair kit

The brakes were bled 3x and the MC was bled prior. But the pedal is still very soft with no brakes. after pumping the pedal a few times, it hardens a bit but won't hold, the pedal just goes to the floor. I also tried reusing the goodridge lines but the problem is still there.


EDIT: forgot to mention that the engine was running while bleeding.



How should I diagnose the problem?
Is there a procedure on how to bleed the abs actuator/pump?

What do you think is/are the problem and how can I solve it?
Thank you. Appreciate your inputs.

 

[jgue467]

Internal leak on MC?

 

[the_welfare_wagon]

Make sure your back brakes are adjusted properly. I didn’t have the dark fluid issue but my brakes went to the floor and once I adjusted the back brakes the pedal went back to where it should be instantly


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[HiluxSurf SSR-G]

what would be the symptom for an internal leak of the MC?
prior to replacing the lines, the brakes were functioning properly, except for the blackening of the fluid.
i also had the MC pistons replaced.

Internal leak on MC?

 

[brillo_76]

This is really sounding like the brakes aren't fully bleed properly and or the rear brake are not adjusted up properly.




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[19963.4lsr5]

Don’t pump the brakes before opening bleeder.

Let it sit overnight and then do another gravity bleed on all 4 corners until no air bubbles are in the clear hose.

Then bleeded with the pedal by doing this until no air bubbles are seen:

Open bleeder-push pedal to the floor-close bleeder-release pedal.

I don’t like speed bleeders…..and if you don’t have a friend that can listen to instructions them buy the Motive Pro pressure bleeder.

When you pump the brakes to make pressure you make a million air bubbles that end up everywhere

Black fluid means it’s absorbing moisture.

I use the synthetic dot 3/4

when I say “no air bubbles seen” I mean after a long while.


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[HiLife]

Possible air made it into the ads unit?

 

[brillo_76]

I have speed bleeders stainless steel ones and they work great. I can see folks not caring for them though....

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[FD7683]

I have speed bleeders stainless steel ones and they work great. I can see folks not caring for them though....

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I heard that speed bleeders do a much better job bleeding the air out of the system than a standard 2 person method. FSM states some year model trucks need to have the engine running in order to get a precise bleeding job. I've never done it on my 2000 but my rear bleeders are s*** so I might be looking into speed bleeders. Would a power bleed be better for our trucks?

 

[brillo_76]

I heard that speed bleeders do a much better job bleeding the air out of the system than a standard 2 person method. FSM states some year model trucks need to have the engine running in order to get a precise bleeding job. I've never done it on my 2000 but my rear bleeders are s*** so I might be looking into speed bleeders. Would a power bleed be better for our trucks?

Very well might be better. I just have them on my 1998 and my 1997 limited. I really went to them because they are stainless which is very good in the rust belt.


I always bleed brakes with the engine running.



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[HiluxSurf SSR-G]

it's possible. would you happen to know how to bleed the abs actuator/pump?

Possible air made it into the ads unit?

 

[19963.4lsr5]

it's possible. would you happen to know how to bleed the abs actuator/pump?

Only easy way to bleed the abs is to first do a brake bleed and then activate the abs and do another bleed if your pedal gets soft.

Edit: it took me three ABS activations on wet roads before my pedal firmness felt the same before and after activation.


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[19963.4lsr5]

I have speed bleeders stainless steel ones and they work great. I can see folks not caring for them though....

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If you ever used vacuum to bleed brakes you’d see the air getting sucked in through the threads of the bleeder.


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[HiLife]

I use a dirt/gravel road.
The speed sensors will pick up a brake lockup (when pressing the brakes)and run the abs pump freeing the air bubbles trapped in the abs pump. After that, I re-bleed all four brakes when I get back to the garage.

 

[brillo_76]

If you ever used vacuum to bleed brakes you’d see the air getting sucked in through the threads of the bleeder.


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Yup. I done it both ways. The good speed bleeders have thread lock in the threads to prevent that from occurring . That's a valid concern though....

Rough thread or bad machining of threads make that issue ever worse.

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[brillo_76]

Tech stream I believe can cycle your ABS modules to make sure you get all the are out.

I am sure some tools like a Autel Maxicheck auto brake bleed can do it as well.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Tech stream I believe can cycle your ABS modules to make sure you get all the are out.

I am sure some tools like a Autel Maxicheck auto brake bleed can do it as well.

I don’t think anything communicates with the ABS. That diagnostic port on the intake manifold is for jumper pins I think. Jumping two may run the abs motor. I never had luck finding any “tech” service info on it.


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[marksomnoms]

Everyone has their own approach and sometimes multiple problems in the brake system can complicate a finished repair.

Initially, my brake problems were poor braking performance and a soft pedal. Before addressing those problems, something failed in the old drum brakes and the rear axle needed work. All of the sudden my car started to brake then lost braking power. I took it to the closest shop and $1800 later my rear was fixed but I left the shop with the same soft brake pedal and poor braking performance. The shop claimed everything else tested fine, but I knew something else was wrong.

I bought the Toyota shop manuals and started at the pedal. I installed a new rubber cover for the brake pedal and then adjusted the pedal height from the floor to make sure it was within the proper range.

Next I used a brake adjustment tool to measure the distance for the two connection points between the brake booster and master cylinder. I made a slight adjustment as I was also installing a new Beck Arnley master cylinder. Since I wasn't driving around town, I disconnected the entire ABS system and used banjo cap nuts to close off the original brake lines. The rear brakes were disconnected and I ran new brake line to two of the brake union points for the front calipers. Now that I only had front brakes and no ABS, I could see if the soft brake pedal was within that isolated setup.

I still had a soft pedal. I bench bled the new master cylinder beforehand and used a Speedi Bleed brake bleeder since the parts looked higher quality than what I was seeing on Amazon and eBay. I suspected some internal failure in the brake booster. I bought a new non Toyota booster off Amazon for around $83. After installing the new booster with my brake adjustment tool, I tested the setup and the pedal finally felt firm again.

My next step is to replace all four ABS speed sensors with some Holstein ones from Rock Auto. During all the other brake issues, my 2 right speed sensors failed so my car started swerving when the ABS was activated. Once I replace the sensors, and install some new nicer brake lines to the calipers, I'll bleed again with the ABS and rear brakes hooked up.

This is not a how to and probably lacked some safety precautions. I have a little money for parts here and there and don't have more finances to go to a shop. I do think I fixed a problem that the shop hadn't resolved. I have other work to do on the vehicle but won't move onto that until the brakes are working 100%.

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[marksomnoms]

I also ordered a $100 laptop off eBay that will run Windows 7 through 10 which are compatible with with some mini vci hardware that connects to techstream software. I've read this software will actuate the ABS system as you bleed it through software prompts. I would prefer to test this software solution rather than trying to force my car to activate the ABS to do so.

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[brillo_76]

I don’t think anything communicates with the ABS. That diagnostic port on the intake manifold is for jumper pins I think. Jumping two may run the abs motor. I never had luck finding any “tech” service info on it.


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1996 through 2000 has only odb 1 connection. So there should be a way to jumper it or plug a diagnostic connector to it yo activate that abs.


The 2001 and 2002 will activate via texhstream. So I suspect there is a connector for obd 1 via through techstream to activate it. However; research would need to be done if you can jumper things to activate it.

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