Need some drum brake help!!!

A

Army97

New member
Okay so i replaced my shoes today on my '97 auto. I thought I followed the Haynes manual exactly, but my brakes are not working. I am sure I put them back together exactly how they were, but I thread the adjuster a bit smaller so that the drum would fit back on. I expanded the adjuster with the a screwdriver through the hole in the backing plate so that the drum barely touches the shoe.

Now I have since driven around the block hitting the brakes a ton, gone backwards and hit the brakes, and pulled the a bunch. My e brake does not work, and the brakes feel worse than the did before. My pedal is going all the way to the floor, and on some snow my rear brakes aren't even locking up...

Any ideas???? I really need to get this fixed asap
 
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Make sure the adjuster for the shoes is moving for the Ebrake. Check the tightness of the cable. It is critical that the shoes and all can move freely.

With that said, bleed the brakes again first like the kid said.
 
I bled the brakes a few weeks ago when I did the fronts and replaced a brake line, I may be wrong, but I can't see how the brake fluid would play a role in this. It seems like it is something to do with the adjusting on the back end.

The more I am thinking about this (not staring at it cursing) I am thinking that the e brake issue means I did not adjust the bell crank properly....

The brakes in general, well I am wondering if I did not make enough adjustment on the adjuster star...

Questions:
How should the e brake bellcrank adjusting bolt be positioned with new shoes on?
How much should the new shoes push on the drum?
 
I'll try bleeding them tomorrow. I have a feeling that one of the adjusters (or both) are not moving with the e-brake...

Do the adjusters move when the brakes are applied regularly, or just for the e-brake... ?
 
You want the shoes to rub ever so slightly, hence it will be a little tight putting the drums back on. Within a short time, they will adjust themselves to the correct setting so to say.

Click on the pdf on the first post of the link to check and make sure you did everything correctly.
Tundra Rear Brake Tutorial

For the bellcranks, I cannot remember offhand but you can check the FSM for further insight to the procedure:
Toyota Tacoma/ 4Runner/ Tundra/ FJ Cruiser Factory Service Manual Page
 
I remember when I tackled the drums about 6 months ago with a buddy that there is a piston (?) that you need to let pressure off of before you complete the install, hence a need to bleed the brakes afterwards. Does the Haynes manual say something about that? That would make sense why you can press the brake pedal all the way down without locking them up, they probably need to be bled again...
 
Bleeding is a good idea regardless of you squishy brakes problem, but I doubt it is what is causing your squishy brakes. When I last went through this, I had to adjust the star gear ALOT more than I expected to have to. I kept test driving, and going back to the star adjustment, drive, adjust, drive adjust. Every time I adjusted, I adjusted until the brake started grabbing the wheel, then when I got back from the drive, they were loose again. I think the drive settles things in, and you then have to readjust.

I tried to auto adjust it with the e-brake too, and that didn't work at all (I suspect corrosion causes the auto adjust to not work right). Once I had a good feeling pedal brake, I adjusted the e-brake bellcranks and cable until the e-brake worked well. You should try readjusting before you go looking elsewhere for the culprit. By the time I finished, I was so tired of readjusting that I wanted to throw up, but it eventually did work.
 
I am not saying you didn't do it correctly, but check out this video which may help you retrace your steps visually:


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MCpCkun2qxA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Looks like I'm a little late to the party but here's How I've learned to do it.

NO MATTER WHAT, get the drums cut at the machine shop. Carquest is my shop of choice. From personal experience, even new expensive drums are out of round. Get them cut, new used or otherwise. Its $15 per drum, just do it.

When you put the drum back on, the shoes should not be scrubbing the drum if you give it a spin. They should be very close but not touching. It should be smooth and quiet. Install the wheel and hand tighten the lug nuts. Before you adjust the dial through the back plate, hop in the car and press the brake pedal. This re-centers the shoes on the drum. Now go back and spin the wheel. It should spin freely. Go underneath and adjust the dial a few clicks at a time while spinning the wheel until you feel and hear the shoes start to make contact. Climb out and with average force, spin the wheel. It should stop after 2 revolutions. If it spins more, tighten it up. If it stops sooner, back it off. If you can get a good 2 revolutions of the wheel, you are all set. Press the brake pedal again and spin one more time. It is really that easy.

On the test drive: If you feel a pulsing of the brakes or shaking, pull over and carefully feel for heat on all the wheel hubs (within the lug nut circle). On the rear I also touch the drum. If there is a problem you'll either feel that its cooler than it should be (ambient temp) and not working at all or so hot it could burn your hand. Which means its hanging/binding.

Last summer I went through 3 sets of new drums trying to eliminate the shake from braking. Finally on the 3rd set I first tested the on the van by just spinning by hand. I could hear a rythmic rub. Had Carquest cut them and afterwards they spun smoothly. I don't care what brand you buy, have the drums cut. I tried Beck Arnley, Raybestos and AC Delco and all were out of round. None of them were cheap either. It would have saved me 2 weekends by doing this.

Here is my last bit of life's experience on drum brakes....Once you remove the drum, take pictures before you take anything off. Take them from several angles. Its so easy to forget if a spring hooks from the front or back or which way it was oriented. Having a picture to reference makes life so much less stressful.
 
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Same problem

Im having the same problem. Changed the shoes and drum. Adjusted the gear from the back through the rubber hole. Ebrake will not stop tire no matter how i adjust it. And the first pump with the brakes goes to the floor. After pumping it 2 times it stops the tire right away with only mild brake pressure. It brakes every time after that. If i let it set for 5 sec and push the pedal again, it goes way down and i have to pump it 2 more times again. I didnt bleed the brake because i didnt open the system. the ebrake handle pulls with tention and the cable at the rear tire pulls but the tire still turns. I took it off and the cable across the bottom of the shoes is on and ran in the guide. I must be missing something??
 
toddsemail1977 said:
Im having the same problem. Changed the shoes and drum. Adjusted the gear from the back through the rubber hole. Ebrake will not stop tire no matter how i adjust it. And the first pump with the brakes goes to the floor. After pumping it 2 times it stops the tire right away with only mild brake pressure. It brakes every time after that. If i let it set for 5 sec and push the pedal again, it goes way down and i have to pump it 2 more times again. I didnt bleed the brake because i didnt open the system. the ebrake handle pulls with tention and the cable at the rear tire pulls but the tire still turns. I took it off and the cable across the bottom of the shoes is on and ran in the guide. I must be missing something??
Click to expand...

Are you sure your bellcranks are adjusted and working? It really sounds like they are not. You need to bleed the system, too, if only to rule that out. You have at least two different problems, and I am betting on air in the system and bellcranks.

It's really easy to have the rear cylinder pistons slip out inside the rubber bellows while the drum is apart and let air into the system. Nothing except the bellows is holding them in.
 
It must be air!

I opened the dust seal and put some lube on the piston and moved it back and forth. It must have let air into the system. That totaly makes sence, i didnt think air could get in that way. Would the ebrake be effected?

-Todd
 
toddsemail1977 said:
I opened the dust seal and put some lube on the piston and moved it back and forth. It must have let air into the system. That totaly makes sence, i didnt think air could get in that way. Would the ebrake be effected?

-Todd
Click to expand...

No. The e-brake is independent of the hydraulic system. That's why I said you have more than one problem. Check your bellcranks on the e-brake issue.

And yeah, messing with the piston like that will let air in.
 
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Good to go!!!!

I bled the brakes several times and it made a big differance.

With the Ebrake i found the auto adjustment gear was not extended enough. Rotating the tire backwards and pressing the brake like the manual said was not effective. And when i adjusted it from the back side of the drum threw the rubber boot hole i stoped when i thought i hear it start rubbing while the drum was rotating. I think i needed to go way further then i thought. I think the best advice is to adjust it all the way out to kind of seat the shoes flat agaist the drum and then adjust it back. I just bought brand new tires at Les Schwab (Ugg... $850) and they looked the brake job over for free and gave me a free alignment. They said i had only ajusted the auto gear about half as far as it should have been. Brakes are awesome now!!:roadkill:
 
Rubbing noise

So it been 2 months since i did my rear drums. When i drive and the radio is off i hear this cycling rubbing noise. At first i thought maybe my bearings where bad but I couldn't tell exactly where the noise was coming from. It only happens while moving . It doesn't seem to grind or get much worse when i apply the brakes. I'm thinking my Rear brakes where adjusted to tight. I had Les Schwab rotate my tires and check everything. They said everything looked good and that the back brakes where a little to tight. And that they should brake in with in about 1000 miles.. Well its been 3000 miles. Is there a easy way to loosen them? I'm thinking i have to take off the tire and drum and pull out the metal stop and spin it one way once or twice on both tires. I really don't want to take it all apart again but the noise is bugging me. If that's it. They also said my shocks are original and should be replaced because they are old. I have have 280,000 miles on it. I bought it with 80,000. But i was told they are good still when i got my new tires 2 months ago. Should i replace them just because? And how about the bearings, same thing??
 
I dont know about the newer disc brake set up but the older drum brakes had a slot on the back side of the wheel that you could use a brake spoon (or a flat screwdriver) and rotate the star wheel to adjust them. You cant do the adjustment with the drum off. Look for a small rubber plug about a inch or so long on the back side of the wheel. I bet it is still in the design.



toddsemail1977 said:
So it been 2 months since i did my rear drums. When i drive and the radio is off i hear this cycling rubbing noise. At first i thought maybe my bearings where bad but I couldn't tell exactly where the noise was coming from. It only happens while moving . It doesn't seem to grind or get much worse when i apply the brakes. I'm thinking my Rear brakes where adjusted to tight. I had Les Schwab rotate my tires and check everything. They said everything looked good and that the back brakes where a little to tight. And that they should brake in with in about 1000 miles.. Well its been 3000 miles. Is there a easy way to loosen them? I'm thinking i have to take off the tire and drum and pull out the metal stop and spin it one way once or twice on both tires. I really don't want to take it all apart again but the noise is bugging me. If that's it. They also said my shocks are original and should be replaced because they are old. I have have 280,000 miles on it. I bought it with 80,000. But i was told they are good still when i got my new tires 2 months ago. Should i replace them just because? And how about the bearings, same thing??
Click to expand...
 
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