Never ending ordeal

[BCMUSA]

Hello all.

So just when I thought my front end problems were finally solved, it resurfaced.

My ordeal is far too long to bore anyone here with so I will briefly explain my problems.

Since day one, stock tires: wobble at 60mph, high frequency vibration at steering wheel, wandering/swaying.

What have I tried? Multiple alignments, multiple balances, 3 different set of tires. Multiple PSI adjustments. All done at different shops, not just one.

Current status:
- Still have swaying/wandering. Needs constant correction on highway.

- At first, after my latest road force the wobble had gone away. However I lowered my PSI from 36 to 34 cold, to get a softer ride and the wobble returned. It gets pretty bad at 60mph until the tires warm up. This shouldn't happen from lowering my PSI a bit.

- Have a slight pull to the right. When I let go of the steering wheel it'll slowly start pulling to the right. Nothing too horrible but its there. I have to drive with the steering wheel pulled to the left slightly to track straight. I've tested this on many different roads/highways.

- high frequency vibration still there, like holding an electric toothbrush

Attached is my latest spec sheet for alignment and balance.

Current tires: Nitto Terra Grappler G2 P-metric, stock size on stock rims.

No other mods what so ever.

At this point, should I just say F it and deal with it?

My concern is if I don't get the pull corrected, my tires will have uneven wear eventually.

I appreciate any feedback guys.

Thank you

 

[GripT4R]

I know its a 2019, but how many miles?


My 2019 has just under 1,400 miles and also has the high frequency steering while vibration between 60-70mph (not sure of exact mph range, but it is somewhere within that 10mph range). Its so minor, and the only "issue" that I just ignore it and write it off as a "truck thing".


Have you thought about polyurethane sway bar mount bushings?

They are pretty cheap, and may help with wandering or swaying.

Have you tried disconnecting the front sway bar and seeing if anything changes? Is it possible that the sway bar is preloaded on one side?

 

[BCMUSA]

I know its a 2019, but how many miles?


My 2019 has just under 1,400 miles and also has the high frequency steering while vibration between 60-70mph (not sure of exact mph range, but it is somewhere within that 10mph range). Its so minor, and the only "issue" that I just ignore it and write it off as a "truck thing".


Have you thought about polyurethane sway bar mount bushings?

They are pretty cheap, and may help with wandering or swaying.

Have you tried disconnecting the front sway bar and seeing if anything changes? Is it possible that the sway bar is preloaded on one side?

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

Truck has 1,900 miles.

I have not tried the bushings or disconnecting sway bar. Unfortunately my car knowledge ends at changing oil/filter and tires lol.

The problem with the high frequency vibration is that it'll put my hands to sleep as I have nerve damage to both hands. If it wasnt for that, I dont think I would care too much about it.

 

[Mutant138]

Hello all.

So just when I thought my front end problems were finally solved, it resurfaced.

My ordeal is far too long to bore anyone here with so I will briefly explain my problems.

Since day one, stock tires: wobble at 60mph, high frequency vibration at steering wheel, wandering/swaying.

What have I tried? Multiple alignments, multiple balances, 3 different set of tires. Multiple PSI adjustments.

Current status:
- Still have swaying/wandering. Needs constant correction on highway.
- At first, after my latest road force the wobble had gone away. However I lowered my PSI from 36 to 34 cold, to get a softer ride and the wobble returned. It gets pretty bad at 60mph until the tires warm up. This shouldn't happen from lowering my PSI a bit.
- Have a slight pull to the right. When I let go of the steering wheel it'll slowly start pulling to the right. Nothing too horrible but its there. I have to drive with the steering wheel pulled to the left slightly to track straight. I've tested this on many different roads/highways.
- high frequency vibration still there, like holding an electric toothbrush

Attached is my latest spec sheet for alignment and balance.

Current tires: Nitto Terra Grappler G2 P-metric, stock size.

No other mods what so ever.

At this point, should I just say F it and deal with it?

My concern is if I don't get the pull corrected, my tires will wear unevenly eventually.

I appreciate any feedback guys.

Thank you

Okay let's try looking at it from a different angle since nothing is working.

Do you keep going to the shame shop to do all the balances and alignments?

That's really the only thing that makes sense. Diven alot of vehicle with purposefully out of spec (custom) alignments and I have balanced a lot of wheels. If the tech doesn't have a clue you will notice it on the road. Sometimes people have "a guy" or "a friend" that they always go to and that person has no idea what they are doing. Food for thought.

Or you are being hyper sensitive. I noticed this truck is not the straightest of trackers. I the get steering wheel vibrations depending on road harmonics (not so much in line with speed but always 60mph or above). Given the stuff I have read I would say current toyota trucks have sensitive front ends (poor IFS geometry?).

 

[BCMUSA]

Okay let's try looking at it from a different angle since nothing is working.

Do you keep going to the shame shop to do all the balances and alignments?

That's really the only thing that makes sense. Diven alot of vehicle with purposefully out of spec (custom) alignments and I have balanced a lot of wheels. If the tech doesn't have a clue you will notice it on the road. Sometimes people have "a guy" or "a friend" that they always go to and that person has no idea what they are doing. Food for thought.

Or you are being hyper sensitive. I noticed this truck is not the straightest of trackers. I the get steering wheel vibrations depending on road harmonics (not so much in line with speed but always 60mph or above). Given the stuff I have read I would say current toyota trucks have sensitive front ends.

No sir.

Have gone to over 4 different shops. Goodyear, dealership, different Discount Tire, mom and pop shop.

I would agree about Toyota being senstitive.

I have always driven trucks, Ford Ranger, Silverado, RAM 1500, Frontier. This is the first truck to give me so much grief.

Sucks because I love this thing.

Do you think I should address the pulling to the right, or deal with it? My only concern is possible uneven tire wear in the future.

I will go back to the mom and pop since they were the only shop to come anywhere close to getting it right.

 

[Mutant138]

No sir.

Have gone to over 4 different shops. Goodyear, dealership, different Discount Tire, mom and pop shop.

I would put money on you being sensitive about it. I don't like that the truck does these things but I think with alot of our trucks it is what it is.

You could get with an alignment expert and see about adding or subtracting toe in/out or caster in the front to get it tracking a bit straighter. Donno if you have adjustable UCA's or not. You need to get on you local fb groups and find a shop that does custom alignments. Someone who sets up racetrucks/cars. Get a real pro on the job to give an opinion. If you were in az I have a guy who did my drift cars that will be doing my truck when I lift.

Before you spend anymore money however I would try to drive a few other 4runners and see if you notice the same thing. You could be chasing your own tail on this one. It pissed me off too but I just let it go.

 

[tm965]

i would try a different shop and check the alignment to see if the readings match what you shared above as those specs look good to go. if your alignment specs are still good, one of your tires may be exhibiting radial pull. i would also raise your tire pressure as this does help with my wobble and vibrations.

 

[jhguth]

roads are crowned, slightly drifting right is normal

 

[Jivewalker]

I'm on my 3rd set of tires and have put 172,000 miles on my truck and have zero vibration, here is what i have to say.

It's all in the balance. Needs to be a road force balance and done correctly. Not all tires can be balanced as easily as others. Indexing changes every time you rotate tires or do maintenance and remove wheels.

When I replaced my original dunflops at 60k+ miles, i went with michelin LTX. vibration at 60mph and steering wheel vibration. They were from a local, respectable, tire shop. Took it back, and was told that was the nature of the truck. Took it Toyota and paid for a road force balance and wheel balance from scratch. vibration gone and those LTX's lasted me about 70k.

Replaced those with KO2, bought from the toyota dealer (buy 3 get 1) and demanded that they be road force balanced at installation. No vibrations, they are great, and now I'm at 172k.

I test drove a runner while I was pissing around at the dealership once, and it vibrated. the sales guy told me it was normal for the truck. I laughed at him and told in exact words, "you're full of shit".

Make sure your a dealer, or wherever you go, has the right equipment and the right skills. You should have a vibration free truck. I've seen both, you are not being over sensitive.

Also, tires have a lot to do with tracking. My KO2's, at 34PSI, track true with no wandering. At least until I had a leaky shock.

Hope this helps.

Edit" forgot to mention indexing. When I replaced my rotors, I had a slight vibration develop. I indexed one front wheel forward one stud, and it was gone. Just putting that out there, all 4 tires work together.

 

[Grug556]

have you tried road force balancing or using soft beads inside the tires? I wonder if the techs are just not balancing the correctly all things being equal on the suspension.

 

[halflife78]

1. Roads are crowned, so pulling to the right is normal.
2. Terra Grapplers suck, I experienced the same thing you experienced for 47,000 miles. I just swapped to 285 KO2's and there is no vibration or noise anymore. I also switched to hub centric SCS wheels.

It shouldn't be a problem like it is, but it seems like the stock wheels and tires suck.

 

[Mutant138]

I'm on my 3rd set of tires and have put 172,000 miles on my truck and have zero vibration, here is what i have to say.

It's all in the balance. Needs to be a road force balance and done correctly. Not all tires can be balanced as easily as others. Indexing changes every time you rotate tires or do maintenance and remove wheels.

When I replaced my original dunflops at 60k+ miles, i went with michelin LTX. vibration at 60mph and steering wheel vibration. They were from a local, respectable, tire shop. Took it back, and was told that was the nature of the truck. Took it Toyota and paid for a road force balance and wheel balance from scratch. vibration gone and those LTX's lasted me about 70k.

Replaced those with KO2, bought from the toyota dealer (buy 3 get 1) and demanded that they be road force balanced at installation. No vibrations, they are great, and now I'm at 172k.

I test drove a runner while I was pissing around at the dealership once, and it vibrated. the sales guy told me it was normal for the truck. I laughed at him and told in exact words, "you're full of shit".

Make sure your a dealer, or wherever you go, has the right equipment and the right skills. You should have a vibration free truck. I've seen both, you are not being over sensitive.

Also, tires have a lot to do with tracking. My KO2's, at 34PSI, track true with no wandering. At least until I had a leaky shock.

Hope this helps.

Edit" forgot to mention indexing. When I replaced my rotors, I had a slight vibration develop. I indexed one front wheel forward one stud, and it was gone. Just putting that out there, all 4 tires work together.

He said re road forced balanced them but vibration came back after he dropped a few psi. Could have been a "close enough" balance that caused that idk really.

 

[Jivewalker]

He said re road forced balanced them but vibration came back after he dropped a few psi. Could have been a "close enough" balance that caused that idk really.

When they did my michelins, they said they had a tough time with one of the tires, but they got it finally. It took a good amount of weights. You might be right with the close enough. The vibration is definately annoying, even for the short time I had it I was pissed. But it was fixed with a good road force on new equipment.

 

[DigitalVex]

Seems like you've already eliminated the tires and alignment as the issue. Heck, 3 sets of tires, 4 shops for alignment. It might be better to look for other issues.

The truck is new, but that does not exclude the possibility that there were build errors or part issues when assembled. I'd have the dealer look at the roller needle bearings in the front axle assemblies, the steering rack, and the upper/lower control arms. If any of these are faulty, tires and alignment would not be a permanent fix.

 

[vipers28]

Personally, I wouldn't go to anymore shops. Your 4R is under factory warranty and I would hand it off to Toyota. Talk with the sales manager and service manager and go from there. IMO huge time suck to keep taking it everywhere. Your dealer should offer you free rental or something and make them work for you. No way would I drop it at any shop with an intact warranty and 1900 miles on it.

 

[pumacat24]

Hey [MENTION=373173]BCMUSA[/MENTION], I'm in the same boat as you. I have an '18 TRD ORP with 6,700 miles. Vibration didn't begin until 5k service and tire rotation. My steering wheel has a high frequency vibration at 60-65moh and above 72-75+ the steering wheel vibration goes away and you can feel it in the front end and it vibrates through the front seats.

7 road force balances between Discount Tire and Dealership.
10 days at the dealership
1 brand new set of Michelin Defender LTX M/Ss
NO FIX

Toyota (not my dealership) claims they will no longer work on the vehicle because "steering wheel vibration is a normal characteristic of the vehicle"... BS!!!! :flipoff:

I'm gathering driving data and tons of hours of research to make my case against them when I file a claim, but first I will make my case to the owner of the dealership.

This is my 3rd 4Runner. I had 3rd, 4th and now 5th, and I know personally know a few other people who have 5th gens that do not vibrate at all.

My interest is peaked in upgrading the suspension to help fix/bandaid whatever the actual problem is. So far, I've found 4 different people who have completely eliminated their steering wheel vibration by suspension upgrades.

I'm test drove 2 '19 TRD ORP off the lot with 2 completely different wheels and tire packages. Both vibrated so bad that the 2 different salesmen were horrified. My dealership is on my side so far, the problem lies with Toyota knowing they have some sort of issue that they can't fix, and they blow it off as a normal characteristic because it's not a critical safety issue IMHO.

I'm test driving a Pro this weekend since all that is different is the upgraded suspension.

I'm hoping that the Pro will not vibrate and I will be able to ask the dealership to be the TRD Pro suspension in my car to see if it helps... cost free. Point being, it would be AMAZING if the upgrade fixed the issue, but then why should we have to pay an extra $2k on top of a $40k+ brand new vehicle to "fix' it?

I have videos of my car as well as all test drives.

I will report back findings.

I'm also going to try a local Mom & Pop shop for balance that was recommended to me, although I don't see how they could still be out of balance, every tech can't be an idiot can they?

Although I guess they are... I just bought a digital tire gauge yesterday to experiment with PSI to see if that would help the issue and found that my from right was at 39 and all the others were at 34. I lowered the front right 34 and seems very slightly better.

It's so frustrating and confusing. This is my dream car and I'm heartbroken.

Someone want to donate some money to my suspension upgrade to see if it would fix the issue? :reddance:

 

[BCMUSA]

Personally, I wouldn't go to anymore shops. Your 4R is under factory warranty and I would hand it off to Toyota. Talk with the sales manager and service manager and go from there. IMO huge time suck to keep taking it everywhere. Your dealer should offer you free rental or something and make them work for you. No way would I drop it at any shop with an intact warranty and 1900 miles on it.

If you knew how shitty our dealerships are here in Vegas, you wouldn't do it.

 

[BCMUSA]

Hey [MENTION=373173]BCMUSA[/MENTION], I'm in the same boat as you. I have an '18 TRD ORP with 6,700 miles. Vibration didn't begin until 5k service and tire rotation. My steering wheel has a high frequency vibration at 60-65moh and above 72-75+ the steering wheel vibration goes away and you can feel it in the front end and it vibrates through the front seats.

7 road force balances between Discount Tire and Dealership.
10 days at the dealership
1 brand new set of Michelin Defender LTX M/Ss
NO FIX

Toyota (not my dealership) claims they will no longer work on the vehicle because "steering wheel vibration is a normal characteristic of the vehicle"... BS!!!! :flipoff:

I'm gathering driving data and tons of hours of research to make my case against them when I file a claim, but first I will make my case to the owner of the dealership.

This is my 3rd 4Runner. I had 3rd, 4th and now 5th, and I know personally know a few other people who have 5th gens that do not vibrate at all.

My interest is peaked in upgrading the suspension to help fix/bandaid whatever the actual problem is. So far, I've found 4 different people who have completely eliminated their steering wheel vibration by suspension upgrades.

I'm test drove 2 '19 TRD ORP off the lot with 2 completely different wheels and tire packages. Both vibrated so bad that the 2 different salesmen were horrified. My dealership is on my side so far, the problem lies with Toyota knowing they have some sort of issue that they can't fix, and they blow it off as a normal characteristic because it's not a critical safety issue IMHO.

I'm test driving a Pro this weekend since all that is different is the upgraded suspension.

I'm hoping that the Pro will not vibrate and I will be able to ask the dealership to be the TRD Pro suspension in my car to see if it helps... cost free. Point being, it would be AMAZING if the upgrade fixed the issue, but then why should we have to pay an extra $2k on top of a $40k+ brand new vehicle to "fix' it?

I have videos of my car as well as all test drives.

I will report back findings.

I'm also going to try a local Mom & Pop shop for balance that was recommended to me, although I don't see how they could still be out of balance, every tech can't be an idiot can they?

Although I guess they are... I just bought a digital tire gauge yesterday to experiment with PSI to see if that would help the issue and found that my from right was at 39 and all the others were at 34. I lowered the front right 34 and seems very slightly better.

It's so frustrating and confusing. This is my dream car and I'm heartbroken.

Someone want to donate some money to my suspension upgrade to see if it would fix the issue? :reddance:

Yup I am having the same problem. Please let me know what you find. I am exhausted dealing with this problem.

 

[BCMUSA]

1. Roads are crowned, so pulling to the right is normal.
2. Terra Grapplers suck, I experienced the same thing you experienced for 47,000 miles. I just swapped to 285 KO2's and there is no vibration or noise anymore. I also switched to hub centric SCS wheels.

It shouldn't be a problem like it is, but it seems like the stock wheels and tires suck.

I don't know if I agree with that.

I have spent weeks reading about this problem and there are many many people who have tried different tires, rims, lift, etc and still have the problem.

 

[97BlackAckCL]

Look into the needle bearing replacement. A lot of my steering wheel shake and grinding issues came from the bad needle bearing. Went bad on my 2017 around 8-10K miles