New Owner and Frustrated.

[Orion_71115]

So last Thursday I bought my 1993 Toyota 4Runner. It has a 3.0 liter V6 and a 2" body lift. The previous owner has replaced the rear end and brakes and just used it for hunting.

Immediate issues are that it needs new tires and a front end alignment. Plus it pulls to the right when braking. I am putting new BFG M/T Kevlar 32" 11.5" x 15 on Monday and getting the front end aligned. If it still pulls to the right on braking then I will bleed all the brakes before replacing the calipers and cylinders.

The 4 Wheel Drive works fine but in tight turns I can hear the CV axles popping. Those will be replaced soon or when they give out. LOL!


Also, The heater doesn't work, the motor never warms up and the idle is up above 1500 rpms. This is where the worry and concern comes from. I took the thermostat housing off to find there was none. So I put in a thermostat and the truck started boiling coolant out the reservoir. The engine temp was up but the heater was not blowing warm air. Initial thought is that the heater core is bad but the idle never came down either. So after a little bit of research I have found that typically this means the heads are shot and the gasket is blown. After finding that out I took the thermostat back out and I am just going to run the truck till it dies.

Until then, I would like some suggestions on what to do after the motor gives up or I come into a large amount of expendable income.

Would you rebuild the heads or swap the motor for a 3.4 like I have read some doing?

Any other insight to my situation is welcomed.

Orion

 

[brifri01]

That sucks about the HG failure. I've gotten two like that cheap, 94 and 97. I wouldn't sink money into a 3.0L. I would buy a 3.4 to swap in if the truck is decent enough platform to start with.

Post some pictures up

 

[thatoneguy]

Until then, I would like some suggestions on what to do after the motor gives up or I come into a large amount of expendable income.

Would you rebuild the heads or swap the motor for a 3.4 like I have read some doing?

Any other insight to my situation is welcomed.

Orion

I personally hate the majority of 3.0's. If you have the time, funds, experience, and patience to swap in a 3.4, I'd do that.



If you're looking for terrible ideas, my buddies' 3.0 blew the hg, and he bought a Magic Headgasket Potion. We laughed at him for doing it. He put it in, and a year and a half later the magic potion is still keeping things together.

 

[Hyde802]

Did you bleed the cooling system or do any other tests before jumping to HG failure conclusion?

 

[Jdrum1]

Are you sure you didn't just have air in the cooling system?

If it is the HG, don't run it until it dies (if you are considering rebuilding it). You'll just end up doing more damage, possible to the point of no return.

 

[giro]

in tight turns I can hear the CV axles popping. Those will be replaced soon or when they give out. LOL!

Are you sure it is a CV joint?

On my 92 I was getting this awful metal popping sound when I was at the turn limit, getting this the first time when I was 5 miles out on a rarely traveled dirt road making a U-turn around an old campfire. We were ready to replace a CV axle, and I bought the part and printed out instructions...but the boot looked fine so we waited. It turned out that the limit stops have plastic nuts on them, and once that wears through you get metal on metal contact. Add in just a little bump and you get a terrible sound. But if you put a little grease on the 2 sides, you don't get this. If you remember to put grease on there every time you change your oil, you'd be fine.

This might not be the problem you're having, but as a cheap 5 minute solution it's worth trying. I just changed the oil and painted part of the undercarriage a few days ago. While those plastic nuts look ok, I need to put some grease on those spots. We're normally at the limit turning out of our driveway, and get the sound just about every time.

(and on the heater, like others said make sure the air is all out. After replacing the thermostat my heater didn't work and the temp gauge got above it's normal halfway mark after 5-10 minutes up a hill, but then the air purged going around a corner after 15 minutes and all was fine)

 

[good_ol_boy]

Sorry to hear about your luck, bud. Just wanted to chime in with my opinion.

i just bought a 94 3.0 v6, sr5 4x4. Has 180k miles. i re-did the heads and did the timing belt. No regrets, everything else is perfect (except the rear-window motor). I do hear a lot about people not liking the 3.0 though. I'm new to the whole 4runner world too, but no regrets.

That being said, a motor swap is just as time consuming and expensive too. If you have experience, just do the heads and i'd say the timing belt too… that should do the trick.

The timing belt was $106 and the whole head gasket assembly was $300. A whole motor is gonna be more expensive, that's for sure.

Thermostat is easy, i can give you a heads up/instructions like i did for another member. Also a little info on the heater core IF you think thats an issue as well.


-----------

* THERMOSTAT REPLACEMENT *

First off, drain the cooling system.

On 3F-E engines, disconnect the 2 vacuum hoses from the Bimetal Vacuum Switching Valve (BVSV), the cold start injector time switch wire and the water temperature switch connector. Unbolt the housing, then remove the water inlet with the hose attached. If there is not enough room to pull both housing and hose out, you may want to disconnect the hose first. On 3F-E engines, remove the clamp bolt for the ISC water bypass pipe. Make certain to remove the gasket with the water inlet. Some of it will probably stick to the housing and require scraping. Then remove the old thermostat.

INSTALLATION

When installing a new thermostat always use a new gasket. Be sure that the thermostat is positioned with the spring down or into the housing. On 3VZ-E engines, the jiggle valve (looks like a small rivet in the edge of the thermostat) must be at the top or 12 o'clock position. Install the water inlet. Install the bolts finger-tight until the inlet is positioned exactly. Tighten the bolts to 10-14 ft. lbs. (13-19 Nm). Overtightening will break the ear off the housing and spoil your afternoon-don't do it. Install the hoses and wire connectors removed for access. Make certain the coolant hoses are not kinked or twisted after installation. Do not overtighten the hose clamps.

Don't forget to fill the cooling system with coolant. Start the engine and check for leaks. Top off any fluid levels.

The heater core is an S.O.B. to freak with… requires taking off the dash to access the heater box. The heater core is inside the heater box. AT LEAST a 3 hour job. The heater core is around $100, give or take at any parts house.


Hope all this helps, -TJ

 

[Orion_71115]

Hey guys, Thank you all for your input.

I have decided against the motor swap. I just don't have the time or place to do it. I would have to pay someone to do it and at this point, repairing the motor is probably my best/cost effective option.

Did you bleed the cooling system or do any other tests before jumping to HG failure conclusion?

Are you sure you didn't just have air in the cooling system?

If it is the HG, don't run it until it dies (if you are considering rebuilding it). You'll just end up doing more damage, possible to the point of no return.

Never heard of bleeding the cooling system. I am old school Chevy 350 V8s and never had to bleed the cooling system.

Are you sure it is a CV joint?

On my 92 I was getting this awful metal popping sound when I was at the turn limit, getting this the first time when I was 5 miles out on a rarely traveled dirt road making a U-turn around an old campfire. We were ready to replace a CV axle, and I bought the part and printed out instructions...but the boot looked fine so we waited. It turned out that the limit stops have plastic nuts on them, and once that wears through you get metal on metal contact. Add in just a little bump and you get a terrible sound. But if you put a little grease on the 2 sides, you don't get this. If you remember to put grease on there every time you change your oil, you'd be fine.

This might not be the problem you're having, but as a cheap 5 minute solution it's worth trying. I just changed the oil and painted part of the undercarriage a few days ago. While those plastic nuts look ok, I need to put some grease on those spots. We're normally at the limit turning out of our driveway, and get the sound just about every time.

I really am not sure on this either. It only pops when I am in four wheel drive and if I make a turn needing the steering wheel to turn more than a quarter turn either way. It is a god awful banging on the floor board. I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee and it never made that noise. I think I am trying to convince myself it is a cheap fix like CV axles and not something worse up the line.

Sorry to hear about your luck, bud. Just wanted to chime in with my opinion.

i just bought a 94 3.0 v6, sr5 4x4. Has 180k miles. i re-did the heads and did the timing belt. No regrets, everything else is perfect (except the rear-window motor). I do hear a lot about people not liking the 3.0 though. I'm new to the whole 4runner world too, but no regrets.

That being said, a motor swap is just as time consuming and expensive too. If you have experience, just do the heads and i'd say the timing belt too… that should do the trick.

The timing belt was $106 and the whole head gasket assembly was $300. A whole motor is gonna be more expensive, that's for sure.

Thermostat is easy, i can give you a heads up/instructions like i did for another member. Also a little info on the heater core IF you think thats an issue as well.


-----------

* THERMOSTAT REPLACEMENT *

First off, drain the cooling system.

On 3F-E engines, disconnect the 2 vacuum hoses from the Bimetal Vacuum Switching Valve (BVSV), the cold start injector time switch wire and the water temperature switch connector. Unbolt the housing, then remove the water inlet with the hose attached. If there is not enough room to pull both housing and hose out, you may want to disconnect the hose first. On 3F-E engines, remove the clamp bolt for the ISC water bypass pipe. Make certain to remove the gasket with the water inlet. Some of it will probably stick to the housing and require scraping. Then remove the old thermostat.

INSTALLATION

When installing a new thermostat always use a new gasket. Be sure that the thermostat is positioned with the spring down or into the housing. On 3VZ-E engines, the jiggle valve (looks like a small rivet in the edge of the thermostat) must be at the top or 12 o'clock position. Install the water inlet. Install the bolts finger-tight until the inlet is positioned exactly. Tighten the bolts to 10-14 ft. lbs. (13-19 Nm). Overtightening will break the ear off the housing and spoil your afternoon-don't do it. Install the hoses and wire connectors removed for access. Make certain the coolant hoses are not kinked or twisted after installation. Do not overtighten the hose clamps.

Don't forget to fill the cooling system with coolant. Start the engine and check for leaks. Top off any fluid levels.

The heater core is an S.O.B. to freak with… requires taking off the dash to access the heater box. The heater core is inside the heater box. AT LEAST a 3 hour job. The heater core is around $100, give or take at any parts house.


Hope all this helps, -TJ

I have had plenty of experience with motor swaps on carburated vehicles but you throw some fuel injection at me with vacuum lines and I feel like a 3 year old trying to do an algebra problem. Tearing down the top half of the motor is just not in the cards for me. No garage and even less time. I just need this one to run.

Just an update, the truck is in the shop now and I hope to hear what is wrong with it by the end of the day. One way or the other, I will make this a dependable rig.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I will keep Y'all in the loop and I promise before and after pictures as I go. She ain't pretty but I love Toyotas and I know it will last forever once I get her running just right.

Orion

 

[Jdrum1]

Never heard of bleeding the cooling system. I am old school Chevy 350 V8s and never had to bleed the cooling system.

It's not really bleeding, but purging all the air out.

I don't know how it is on these 4Runner's, but it took some time to ge the air out of the heater core on my '65 Chevy (C10 with a 283) after flushing it.

 

[Orion_71115]

I usually just fill it up with the motor off and let it settle for a few minutes then top it back off. Once done I will fire it up and add till it tops off. Never had any issues doing it that way but I am sure each motor is different and can get their quarks.

 

[bills86e]

Idling at 1500 is not right. try turning the flat head throttle body idle screw to 750-850 rpm's.
The PO may have by-passed the heater core if it leaked.
Do a compression test and post results.
Have a radiator shop test the system for gases.
Check that EACH vacuum hose is properly routed.
Buy CRC throttle body spray.
Pull the modulator cap off and clean the internal filter.
Clean IAC, TB.
These hoses get mixed up when the plenom is removed and the pcv is under there.
code 71 and vacuum lines. - Page 2 - YotaTech Forums

$15 each!
I use Fuel Injector Service,Outboards,Marine,Motorcycles,ATV,Yamaha. He's cheap and they come back like new! Much Better MPG!

 

[Orion_71115]

Thanks Bill for the tips. I will keep your fuel injector information on tap.

So here is an update after a week in the shop.

I had to take the thermostat back out so I could drive it out of fear of overheating at some point. They had to put one back in. Lovely getting charged for something I am capable of doing myself. Anyway, so they did their tests and determined that the head gasket is not blown and that the motor is in good shape. They said that the heater core is getting water too but it was the heater control valve that was bad. So that is fixed and the truck isn't spewing antifreeze any more.

I asked the guy about the high idle and he said, "No problem, 30 minute fix." I mentioned to him that I had already tried to adjust the idle stop screw and the throttle body screw. He said he could tell and figured I didn't get it right. Was suppose to pick up the truck yesterday and I get a call that he can't get the idle below 1000 rpms. I had to hold back my chuckle and "Well Duh, I told you that already" comment. I told them that in the beginning so that they would hopefully take the time to look into it further. So now he wants to have his fuel injection guy look at it Monday to see what is going on.

So my truck sat in a shop all week for almost nothing. I had asked about how the compression test came out and he said he didn't do that. I asked how else do you determine that the head gasket is blown and he said with chemicals and other methods. Don't know if I should be worried. I wasn't born yesterday and even though it has been a while since I turned a wrench and fuel injection is new to me, I am getting a nervous feeling. But, I am in it now and we shall see what he says Monday.

Figured you guys would like an update and thank you all again for your help and tips. I will be doing a few of your suggestions when I get it back if I see they have not.

Also, here are a couple pics I took the night I brought it home. I will get better daylight pics when I get it back.

Orion

 

[Orion_71115]

OK, so enough with the negative stuff for now, lets talk about future plans.

The immediate future after it is up and running will be a set of Goodyear Wrangler MT/R with Kevlar - 32X11.50R15 and a front end alignment.
Sears.com
I am open to other suggestions in that size but don't want to spend over $200 a tire.

Next I want to take off the stepsides and put on some Bushwacker fender flares.
Search Results | Bushwacker

The interior is OK but could use a couple things. Since it has a body lift to it, they did not install a console kit for the shifters. I have not been able to find any either so if you know of some, please let me know.

The power antenna is jacked so I will replace that as well. I am open to suggestions on that as well. Should I go back factory or are there other options y'all like?

I am going to need a new roof rack too. Looks like a branch fell on this one. There is some weird screw cap in the middle of the roof just in front of the rack. I don't know what this is for but I will take a pic and show y'all when I can.

The back end is a little banged up over the rear wheels. The rear door gaps are close. I would like to straighten it out before putting on the fender flares but not sure if I am going to. If I do, I will just hook around a tree and connect to some body mounts and slowly pull forward till the door gaps are good. I can hammer and dolly the rest out.

It also wont be white for long. I love white, but in this case, I am going tactical black and gray. No shine. Once I get some good daylight pics, I will mock up a sample of what I plan to do.

Orion

 

[Robmills72]

OK, so enough with the negative stuff for now, lets talk about future plans.

The immediate future after it is up and running will be a set of Goodyear Wrangler MT/R with Kevlar - 32X11.50R15 and a front end alignment.
Sears.com
I am open to other suggestions in that size but don't want to spend over $200 a tire.

Next I want to take off the stepsides and put on some Bushwacker fender flares.
Search Results | Bushwacker

The interior is OK but could use a couple things. Since it has a body lift to it, they did not install a console kit for the shifters. I have not been able to find any either so if you know of some, please let me know.

The power antenna is jacked so I will replace that as well. I am open to suggestions on that as well. Should I go back factory or are there other options y'all like?

I am going to need a new roof rack too. Looks like a branch fell on this one. There is some weird screw cap in the middle of the roof just in front of the rack. I don't know what this is for but I will take a pic and show y'all when I can.

The back end is a little banged up over the rear wheels. The rear door gaps are close. I would like to straighten it out before putting on the fender flares but not sure if I am going to. If I do, I will just hook around a tree and connect to some body mounts and slowly pull forward till the door gaps are good. I can hammer and dolly the rest out.

It also wont be white for long. I love white, but in this case, I am going tactical black and gray. No shine. Once I get some good daylight pics, I will mock up a sample of what I plan to do.

Orion

I would look into a 33x1050 tire instead. I think you'll love the fender fill and the lack of rubbing around turns Plus most can be found for under 200. Are you looking to replace the factory cross rails or the whole roof rack? In either case I would look into a roof basket (rola makes a very inexpensive basket that looks great. I had bushwackers on my truck for a while and they were tough, my only complaint is that you have to drill into the fender and they fill with dirt pretty easily. As far as the antenna, mine got screwed up forever ago and I just took it off, and (idk how) I get better signal to my radio then I ever have lol. Also if you're up for it you could remove the body lift and put on a suspension lift which will be better in the long run, or even just put the suspension lift with the body lift.

 

[giro]

The screwcap on the roof might be a CB antennae mount. I have one, though it's closer to the back.

I'm happy with my yakima towers and bars, connected to the factory rails. It makes only a tiny bit of noise. But if you don't need extra strength or adding a bunch of things, the factory ones are fine and you can pick them up from a junkyard for cheap. I have the ones for mine somewhere that I should probably just sell, and also a set of rails and rack for a Gen 3 that I was going to put onto my rankless '98.

My antennae is stuck in the up position (wasn't working right, so the PO had someone put it up and then unplug it). I don't know if I've ever seen a Gen 2 in the last 10 years with a working one, including the '92 I saw today that was missing the whole thing. In the nearly 10 years I've had it, it hasn't been a problem, though there were a couple times when off road where it would have been nice to retract it.

 

[Orion_71115]

I would look into a 33x1050 tire instead. I think you'll love the fender fill and the lack of rubbing around turns Plus most can be found for under 200. Are you looking to replace the factory cross rails or the whole roof rack? In either case I would look into a roof basket (rola makes a very inexpensive basket that looks great. I had bushwackers on my truck for a while and they were tough, my only complaint is that you have to drill into the fender and they fill with dirt pretty easily. As far as the antenna, mine got screwed up forever ago and I just took it off, and (idk how) I get better signal to my radio then I ever have lol. Also if you're up for it you could remove the body lift and put on a suspension lift which will be better in the long run, or even just put the suspension lift with the body lift.

I really like the stance of the 32" 11.5". I don't have any rub what so ever with them. I thought about going to a 33" 12.5" but I am concerned with rub there. I don't much care for the looks of these trucks where the tires look tall and skinny. For me to go slogging through mud holes and swamp, I need a wide foot print. I won't be removing the body lift. Looks fine the way it is and not sure what application a suspension lift would be better. Certainly not for my wallet with all the extra you have to put into it for it to be right. LOL!

I am OK with drilling holes into the fenders. It is banged up as it is already and a few holes for better looks will be a worthy sacrifice.

A tree branch fell on the slide rails on the roof rack and I will need to replace them. I do want a basket and I want to mount flood lights all the way around. I will look into the one you suggested.

The screwcap on the roof might be a CB antennae mount. I have one, though it's closer to the back.

I'm happy with my yakima towers and bars, connected to the factory rails. It makes only a tiny bit of noise. But if you don't need extra strength or adding a bunch of things, the factory ones are fine and you can pick them up from a junkyard for cheap. I have the ones for mine somewhere that I should probably just sell, and also a set of rails and rack for a Gen 3 that I was going to put onto my rankless '98.

My antennae is stuck in the up position (wasn't working right, so the PO had someone put it up and then unplug it). I don't know if I've ever seen a Gen 2 in the last 10 years with a working one, including the '92 I saw today that was missing the whole thing. In the nearly 10 years I've had it, it hasn't been a problem, though there were a couple times when off road where it would have been nice to retract it.

I will look into yours as well. I don't think noise will be an issue here. The PO put loud dual exhaust on the truck so all I hear is this thing roaring down the road. Combined with tire noise. I will be def anyway. LMAO!

Some jacktail broke my antenna and it is just taped together from the PO. I can hear the motor working but since the antenna is broke, it doesn't do anything. Figure I will just replace it. Wasn't sure if anyone had swapped to a low profile antenna or anything that won't break when going through brush. I figured the cap on top was for a CB antenna. May look into that further. Those were handy in the old days when I was wheeling by myself.

Thanks guys for the suggestions.

Orion

 

[Orion_71115]

OK guys, I got my truck back last night and while they didn't rake me over the coals, nothing has really changed.

I paid them to fix the heater and they replaced the heater control valve still no heat.
I paid them to fix the idle and while it does idle lower, it still is not idling where it needs to. It is idling at 1100 rpm and the throttle sticks holding it up around 2000 rpm unless I bump the throttle every time I push in the clutch.

Apparently I paid them to break my EGR vacuum control valve. I know that was good before I dropped it off. Now it has a vacuum port broken off.

This isn't their fault but I noticed gear oil slung all over the underside of the truck up where the drive shaft meets the rear diff. Guess the seal is out on that too. Anyone replace the seal on that?

I know these trucks are great trucks but dang, this sux.

I will say that the bright side is, I know I don't have a blown head gasket. Nice little piece of mind there.

Orion

 

[Orion_71115]

Well I got my new intake tube in last night and decided to put it on. In the process I figured I would go ahead and clean the MAFS.
Well I was taking it apart and my stupid self took the plug off and accidentally gutted the wires out of the sensor. There is a nice $200 mistake I did not need.
Well, at least I know the MAFS will be good as I am tracking down these idle problems.

I was also looking at my vacuum line setup and I notices that while most components are going to the right place, a lot of them leave out vacuum switches or connectors.
Is this normal or should I make efforts to get this back 100% the way it should be?

 

[Hyde802]

Since your having running issues, putting them back to stock might help.

What the pat number on the sensor you wrecked? I have an extra one Id let go for pretty cheap. I just tested it a few weeks ago, its good.

 

[2ndGen4runner4x4]

- Make sure that your radiator is in good shape and flowing like it should be. I am running a very large all brass radiator that I got on rockauto for a bunch of money.
- Is there anyone out there that doesn't have a broken antenna?
- I found my roof rack on craigslist for $100... you just gotta be in the right place at the time with cash in hand.
- 33"s are the way to go, especially if you already have 4:88's... 32"s can be a hassle to find and/or replace if you need just one tire.