New Owner, some concerns

[Muzzle of Bees]

Are the stock BRIDGESTONE DUELER H/T tires garbage?

I got rid of mine at about 27k. The never vibrated. They had good tread still, but I kept getting punctures near the side walls. Small tears appeared from mild trail riding.
Could never figure out if it was stumps or rocks causing the most damage. I do not have any trouble, on the same trails, with my Cooper RTX E load tires.

 

[gbarr]

Have you asked the dealer? You said your friend works for DT but if it's alignment or other on a new 4R I would drop by the dealer. I have zero vibrations with my 4R but when I went to a more aggressive tire it has a different feel which is expected. Good luck getting this resolved.

I disagree completely with you on the quality accessment of the bridgestone Duelers that com standard on 4Runners. I have had those on a 2004 V/8 sr5 4WD, A 2014 SR5 4wd V/6 and a 2017 TEP 4 wd With KDSS On all three the original tires went almost 40000 miles with no balance issues.

 

[JAXJeremy]

I've got 7K on my factory duelers, no vibrations, shimmy or issues and I regulary take it up to 80..set at 32 psi and rides smooth as glass at all speeds. For reference they were rotated once at the dealership, then again when I installed the trail rims.

 

[4FL]

Well, my opinion, no, it is not normal the vibrations you described.

I ran the stock tires for about 40k miles, zero issues with them for what I did, 100% pavement, lol, most of my miles are highway.

I replaced mine recently with the Cooper AT3 4s, stock size. So far an awesome tire. I did it because here in Miami the rainy season is coming, and my original tires were just getting worn, and the Cooper has been regarded (at least on this forum) as a great tire for the rain. They are smooth, no vibrations or anything.

 

[ryguytheman]

The Duelers are garbage, but I never had any wobble issues at all. As far as the reason why I say they are garbage, one tire the wheel split in the center and I had to have it replaced at 20k. Toyota would do nothing so I had to get Firestone to replace one for $96. The other 3 were worn out at 30k even. The guy at one Firestone place I went to said the concrete in cities will wear them faster than out in the country on asphalt. Never had tires wear out like that before, thus they are garbage. Ugly too.

Regarding my BFG K02s, after bout 3500 miles I started to get a slight wobble at about 60 mpg. Went down to Discount Tire and got a road force balance and everything good now. Rotate tires at least every 5000k. They are C-Load and ride very good with minimal noise for an AT. Expensive though unless you get them during Black Friday.

I got my KO2s at Discount Tire on memorial day weekend last year, $200 bucks off during that weekend. Still not cheap, but definitely a good deal. Memorial day is coming up here soon.

EDIT: did have to send in a rebate form for the discount, but that's easy enough.

 

[Jernik]

Thank you. I didn't know trading in was an option.

I only plan on doing light off roading here and there. Mainly when I go shooting at the desert so I prefer quiter/smoother type AT tires instead of more aggressive ones.

One thought I had, ya'll don't suppose the tires are getting flat spotted from sitting on the lot? I dunno, just somethimg that popped into my mind.

Anyway, as soon as I got my 4R, I went to Discount Tire and put Cooper ATP's on it. The factory tires had right at 100 miles on them, and DT gave me $50 each ($200 total) toward my new tires.

I'm not religious about rotating tires, so I must admit I pay a price for this with the ATP's. At 37k, they are now a little loud. Actually louder than the BFG MT's on my Wrangler, but they only have 5500 on them. Also, I do get a little "buzz" around 45-50 mph. For some reason it makes the plastic surround on the left thumb control pad on the steering wheel buzz like a bee - until I put my thumb over the upper left corner of it. Aside from that specific buzz, stops and driving are vibration free and smooth.

One other thing - question for the group actually... anyone else have issues with Cooper tires sealing well on the rim? Before we bought the 4R, we had a Grand Cherokee and the AT3's - one tire did not like to seat on the rim and slowly lost air unless it was essentially glued to the rim. I have one tire on the 4R (ATP's) that likes to slowly lose air under load - for example, when it was on the back, it would lose air when we were fully loaded for a camping trip. No punctures, I assume it was leaking around the rim as well?

That's possibly a question for your friend that works at DT. Otherwise, I've been very happy with them. Happy enough I can overlook these minor issues and would buy them again... unless I decide to go with the AT3 XLT or ST MAXX.

Good luck with your 4R. We love ours, hope you eventually find yours just as satisfying, especially after the taco ordeal.

 

[TheJokingExplorer]

I have a 2017 SR5P that I swapped out the stock tires for BFG Ko2's and I never had the steering wheel shake. I then swapped out my trail wheels for the TRD Pro wheels and began to have the exact same wheel shake OP describes at 60mph. After multiple times of having Discount Tire road force balance, it finally went away. Now when it comes back I just have the tires rotated and that fixes the problem. Usually every 3-4k miles.

 

[Cymon]

[MENTION=373173]BCMUSA[/MENTION] Look into the Cooper AT3's in the P-metric load rating stock size. They will be perfect for your application (on road and light duty off-roading). They are quiet, have great wet traction and are not that much heavier than stock. A lot of people around here run other all-terrains, like the BFG KO2, which is a good tire but is only available in LT specs, meaning they will be heavier and ride stiffer than p-metric. Other p-metric all-terrains to look at would be the Nitto Terra Grappler G2 (which comes standard on the TRD Pro) and the Falken AT3W (but there have been some complaints about balancing issues with these so after what you have been through may not be the safest choice).

Here is an oldie but goodie....

AT Tires - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum

 

[BCMUSA]

[MENTION=373173]BCMUSA[/MENTION] Look into the Cooper AT3's in the P-metric load rating stock size. They will be perfect for your application (on road and light duty off-roading). They are quiet, have great wet traction and are not that much heavier than stock. A lot of people around here run other all-terrains, like the BFG KO2, which is a good tire but is only available in LT specs, meaning they will be heavier and ride stiffer than p-metric. Other p-metric all-terrains to look at would be the Nitto Terra Grappler G2 (which comes standard on the TRD Pro) and the Falken AT3W (but there have been some complaints about balancing issues with these so after what you have been through may not be the safest choice).

Here is an oldie but goodie....

AT Tires - Toyota 4Runner Forum - Largest 4Runner Forum

Do you mind explaining a little about the difference between all the ratings? P, C, E p-metric? I'd appreciate it.

 

[SurfToy]

My brand new 2019 ORP came with Dunlop Grandtreks. I have a subtle steering wheel shake at 60 mph but not always and I can't identify a consistent situation where it always happens. I'm at about 2600 miles now so when I take it in for the 5k service I'll have them rotate the tires and we'll see if it gets better or worse.

 

[Cymon]

Do you mind explaining a little about the difference between all the ratings? P, C, E p-metric? I'd appreciate it.

Here is a quick explanation:
What’s a tire ply rating? | TireBuyer.com

P, or p-metric tires are usually similar to a "B" 2-4 ply construction but are not load rated, and they are designed for passenger vehicles. The load range strength refers to how much carrying capacity the tire can hold at maximum tire inflation. In general the LT (C, D, E load) have a thicker sidewall and heavier rubber construction in order to carry a heavier load. LT tires in general are overkill for the 4runner as its weight does not require their load rating. If you are off-roading a lot, especially in rocky areas, or places that are susceptible to tire puncture then an C or E Load tire will be far less likely to fail because of their increased sidewall strength. The compromise in this is that LT tires have a rougher ride and weigh more because of their stiffer and thicker construction making them harder to balance and your gas mileage will suffer.

For your stated purposes throughout this thread I believe an LT tire would not be the best for you, or if you do decide to go with an LT tire no higher than a "C" load rating. There are many members, including myself who go off-road with P-metric tires (I had my stock tires for 30,000 miles and you can click the link in my signature to see some of the stuff I did in them). I currently run the Cooper AT3's in the "C" load rating. They have been a good compromise tire for my use, but they were harder to balance.

Here was my decision making process:
Post #122
Cymon's Weekend Warrior and MFD Thread

 

[Roverguy1]

I purchased a used 2014 SR5 about a month ago. Felt a bit of a slight steering wheel shake, on and off, but when I went on one of our 400 series highway and got up around 110 kph, the shake got bad. I took the truck back in and they said two tires on the right side had some unusual wear on the inside. They replaced them immediately and so far, the shake is gone. What I do notice is how easily this truck gets blown about in the wind, sometimes it's just not a fun drive. I'm thinking this could partially be down to the type of tires but I am used to driving heavy Land Rovers where this was never an issue. I'll be swapping out the stock Bridgestone's to Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S in the fall before snow hits. I ran AT3's on my Disco I and LR3 and found them a great tire.

 

[bigmace]

Are the stock BRIDGESTONE DUELER H/T tires garbage?

Yes, they are terrible. We took them off our 2019 4runner and got some falkens. Put the duelers on my 05 frontier 2wd pickup because I needed new tires. They are fine for driving but my truck wan'ts to travel all over the road when braking at freeway speeds. Oh well, just trying to get a couple years out of that truck and then we are going to get a tacoma or tundra.

 

[BCMUSA]

Thanks all for the replies.

I got all 4 tires road force balanced, they were all off a bit. Raised tire pressure to 35PSI to all tires. Wobble is practically gone, very minor now. However light vibrations still in the steering wheel and pedals.

At this point I give up. After dealing with it on my Tacoma also, I'm over it.

I think its minor enough now that I can live with it. Definitely last Toyota I'm ever purchasing.

I think these vehicles no matter what you do, you'll still have some vibration even if its minor.

 

[ForRun]

I would ask your friend to test fit and run some all season Michelin top the line tires. Mount them, drive up the highway and see. Discount will do that for anyone.
I've owned many vehicles (near 50) over the years and oem tires are mostly junk and one of my 1st things to kick to the curb

 

[BCMUSA]

I would ask your friend to test fit and run some all season Michelin top the line tires. Mount them, drive up the highway and see. Discount will do that for anyone.
I've owned many vehicles (near 50) over the years and oem tires are mostly junk and one of my 1st things to kick to the curb

That is a good idea. I didn't know you could do that.

I was thinking that if I did upgrade, I'd go with the Cooper AT3 4S to have a little grip when I do light offloading. Do you think these would still be better (smoother) than my stock tires even though they are AT tires?

 

[skag1T]

OP, go to a tire shop that has a Hunter GSP9700 road force balancing machine and have them balance all your wheels. This takes into account the imperfections in the tire itself. I have the same vibration issue on my 18 4R and it turned out 2 of my tires were way out of balance (tires, not wheels) due to imperfections in the tire walls.

4R are very sensitive about this, I replaced all my tires and no issues 15k miles later.

Keep this in mind, every time you change tires you need to go to a place that has this machine. In my area, some Les Schwab stores have it.

 

[BCMUSA]

OP, go to a tire shop that has a Hunter GSP9700 road force balancing machine and have them balance all your wheels. This takes into account the imperfections in the tire itself. I have the same vibration issue on my 18 4R and it turned out 2 of my tires were way out of balance (tires, not wheels) due to imperfections in the tire walls.

4R are very sensitive about this, I replaced all my tires and no issues 15k miles later.

Keep this in mind, every time you change tires you need to go to a place that has this machine. In my area, some Les Schwab stores have it.

I did. The discount tire I went to has it. It definitely does feel smoother now and the wobble is practically gone. However I am still having some vibrations in the steering wheel.

Crazy thing is I can feel it more on the lower part of the steering wheel as opposed to the top. If I place my hand on the lower part of the steering column, I can feel it there also.

One of my tires was at like 30 pounds, my friend brought them all down to 12 or less.

 

[4FL]

That is a good idea. I didn't know you could do that.

I was thinking that if I did upgrade, I'd go with the Cooper AT3 4S to have a little grip when I do light offloading. Do you think these would still be better (smoother) than my stock tires even though they are AT tires?

My 4S are very smooth and quiet.

 

[skag1T]

I have heard that in some cases installing a (small) lift kit might fix this. Not sure, I haven't done it myself, I would be interested to know if it's true.