NEW TIRE: Michelin LTX M/S-2

[Thai]

"The best just got better.

The legendary MICHELIN® LTX® M/S Tire is known for its exceptional handling, superior stopping power and unparalleled longevity. But with the new MICHELIN® LTX® M/S2 Tire, we've taken it to the next level. We designed it to be the best all-around light truck / SUV tire on the road. Weighing your options has never been easier."

Here is a Michelin site to compare with other tires in its class: http://www.michelinman.com/ltxms2-tire/?WT.mc_id=Email_Internal_HandraiserSept2009&unique_id=3292108

Here is the specs page: http://www.michelinman.com/tires/light-truck/ltx-ms2/
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This looks like a good long-lasting highway SUV tire.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Looks good but no snowflake

If I had 18's on my T4R the 265/70/18 might pretty intersting...
:cheers:

 

[jharris2]

Looks good but no snowflake

Yeah, that's really important for you in Florida, right??

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Yeah, that's really important for you in Florida, right??

Well, the snowflake does get certain Texans excited:violin:


:lmao::lmao:

 

[alaskaman]

I dunno but having run the Michy on my 3rd gen and the Pirelli on the 4th I can say that the Michelin would not compare well in snow. Oh and by the way just talked with a Texan who say's as long as the Cowboys beat the Midgets he does not give a rats tail about either tire..........eace:

 

[Thai]

I dunno but having run the Michy on my 3rd gen and the Pirelli on the 4th I can say that the Michelin would not compare well in snow. Oh and by the way just talked with a Texan who say's as long as the Cowboys beat the Midgets he does not give a rats tail about either tire..........eace:

hahahaha!!

The problem with Michelin is that you pay a lot for their quality...those LTX M/S-2s are probably not gonna be cheap!

 

[Climb14er]

hahahaha!!

The problem with Michelin is that you pay a lot for their quality...those LTX M/S-2s are probably not gonna be cheap!

You get what you pay for... especially with tires!

The LTX M&S tires have been a fave of mine for years. These will be worth a good look when I put in either a Toytec or OME lift.

Here in Colorado, I don't even need a 'snowflake' on my tires, in Denver or in the mountains. :

 

[jon55nj]

I just ordered 4 of these today. Won't be able to get them installed until Wednesday. I will let you know how they work on my 06 sport.

 

[Thai]

I just ordered 4 of these today. Won't be able to get them installed until Wednesday. I will let you know how they work on my 06 sport.

Cool...please keep us posted of what you think!!

 

[pmrowczynski]

Looking for a replacement for the Michelin Cross Terrains and asked for a comparison from Michelin:

"The new Michelin LTX M/S2 offers over 15% better snow traction over the
competition, including better snow traction over the Michelin Cross-Terrain.
However, the Michelin LTX M/S2 is not RMA approved for severe winter
conditions, neither is the Michelin Cross-Terrain, yet the LTX M/S2 will out
perform the Michelin Cross-Terrain in snow and all areas of performance."

For some reason, I thought the Cross-Terrains were snowflake rated. To be honest, they served very well in terms of mileage (55k and counting), noise and dealing with the winters of the Sierra Nevada's.

 

[jon55nj]

Looking for a replacement for the Michelin Cross Terrains and asked for a comparison from Michelin:

"The new Michelin LTX M/S2 offers over 15% better snow traction over the
competition, including better snow traction over the Michelin Cross-Terrain.
However, the Michelin LTX M/S2 is not RMA approved for severe winter
conditions, neither is the Michelin Cross-Terrain, yet the LTX M/S2 will out
perform the Michelin Cross-Terrain in snow and all areas of performance."

For some reason, I thought the Cross-Terrains were snowflake rated. To be honest, they served very well in terms of mileage (55k and counting), noise and dealing with the winters of the Sierra Nevada's.

That is what I had before, CT's. I thought they were really good. TireRack still had them but they were 229 per tire (vs 182) and TR, Michelin, and my local shop suggested that the MS2's were better. We'll see.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

It's the price that is the killer since those would run me over $1000 and the Nittos or Duratracs won't be much over $750 and my Nittos have performed quite well over the last 4 winters and I've had a lot of tires to compare over the last 23 winters since I've been driving.

Michelin's are great but not really for me.

 

[ToyTech99]

Looks good but no snowflake


:cheers:

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I don't put too much stock into that snowflake symbol. I think it's more marketing hype than anything else. Snow traction is just too variable to rate a tire as worthy of a snowflake symbol in my opinion. The same tire can perform much differently in wet snow, dry snow, granular snow, deep snow, etc... so to invent a symbol and grade a tire on snow traction just seems silly to me. It's a nice idea to standardize some sort of testing, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a tire, regardless of the snowflake symbol on it or not!

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Nittos have no snowflake symbol and the BFG KOs do and from my driving experiences the Nittos have much better rearend control and cornering bite than the KOs I've driven on.

 

[pmrowczynski]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I don't put too much stock into that snowflake symbol. I think it's more marketing hype than anything else. Snow traction is just too variable to rate a tire as worthy of a snowflake symbol in my opinion. The same tire can perform much differently in wet snow, dry snow, granular snow, deep snow, etc... so to invent a symbol and grade a tire on snow traction just seems silly to me. It's a nice idea to standardize some sort of testing, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy a tire, regardless of the snowflake symbol on it or not!

There are some serious debates on that snowflake symbol in this forum

"You will find the M+S symbol on most all-season tyres, on off-road and all-terrain tyres and even some high performance summer tyres may have this designation. However, there are no performance standards to meet or traction tests to pass. Any tyre with grooves at angles and with 25% of the tread void can be labelled as M+S."

"In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in “RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions”. Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads."

Now, I'll admit that many tires may be able to meet the traction test w/o having the snowflake symbol. But as a selling point (people looking for severe snow tires), why wouldn't they test and then market it as such?

Right now, I'm looking at the Michelin's and nothing has the snowflake and is not a pure winter tire. So I broaden my search and check out other tires like the Goodyear Silent Armors. If the M/S *had* the snowflake, it would simply be another sale.

 

[ToyTech99]

There are some serious debates on that snowflake symbol in this forum

"You will find the M+S symbol on most all-season tyres, on off-road and all-terrain tyres and even some high performance summer tyres may have this designation. However, there are no performance standards to meet or traction tests to pass. Any tyre with grooves at angles and with 25% of the tread void can be labelled as M+S."

"In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in “RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions”. Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads."

Now, I'll admit that many tires may be able to meet the traction test w/o having the snowflake symbol. But as a selling point (people looking for severe snow tires), why wouldn't they test and then market it as such?

Right now, I'm looking at the Michelin's and nothing has the snowflake and is not a pure winter tire. So I broaden my search and check out other tires like the Goodyear Silent Armors. If the M/S *had* the snowflake, it would simply be another sale.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I would need to know more about their testing procedures before I would put any real faith into the snowflake symbol. What if the testing is biased toward just one type of snow? Seriously, I've had my own 4Runner act completely different on different types of snow. In some types of snow, it's like an unstoppable tank. Other types of snow make it seem much more nervous. I know that no one tire can truly excel at every possible condition, but I've driven in the snow enough to know that my tires will respond differently in any given type of snow/road condition. That's why I'm not big on using the snowflake symbol to determine if a tire is truly a good snow performer.

 

[Thai]

Nittos have no snowflake symbol and the BFG KOs do and from my driving experiences the Nittos have much better rearend control and cornering bite than the KOs I've driven on.

And yet, others (ex: p nut) have the opposite experience than you...and we all know how much you love the Nittos! Put down those blinders RonM!

 

[pmrowczynski]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I would need to know more about their testing procedures before I would put any real faith into the snowflake symbol. What if the testing is biased toward just one type of snow? Seriously, I've had my own 4Runner act completely different on different types of snow. In some types of snow, it's like an unstoppable tank. Other types of snow make it seem much more nervous. I know that no one tire can truly excel at every possible condition, but I've driven in the snow enough to know that my tires will respond differently in any given type of snow/road condition. That's why I'm not big on using the snowflake symbol to determine if a tire is truly a good snow performer.

But then what is the alternative?

A standardized test measures "something" in some situation. The snowflake gives us at least an inkling that the tire performs well in that situation (compared to non-snowflake tires).

Infinite conditions exist: Powder, wet pack snow, snow over ice, snow over asphalt, snow with slush, ice, etc. You're absolutely right. for one person (or group of people) to say XXX tires are the best, ignores a lot more variables than a standardized test.

So I do need to ask again: What other objective criteria / methodology is available? I'm getting ready to plop down $1000 on a set of new tires for the up coming winter season and if there are other alternatives, I'd like to hear them.

PS. Just gotta add this. I've spent the last few days poring over reviews and recommendations on soooo many sites. If there's a short answer for "whats the best all terrain tire mix for long highway commutes and high sierra nevada snow" I'd LOVE to hear it.

 

[Thai]

A standardized test measures "something" in some situation. The snowflake gives us at least an inkling that the tire performs well in that situation (compared to non-snowflake tires).

Infinite conditions exist: Powder, wet pack snow, snow over ice, snow over asphalt, snow with slush, ice, etc. You're absolutely right. for one person (or group of people) to say XXX tires are the best, ignores a lot more variables than a standardized test.

Exactly...i have been arguing that same point(s)...it is hard for some people to understand that!!

 

[Summit]

There are some serious debates on that snowflake symbol in this forum

"You will find the M+S symbol on most all-season tyres, on off-road and all-terrain tyres and even some high performance summer tyres may have this designation. However, there are no performance standards to meet or traction tests to pass. Any tyre with grooves at angles and with 25% of the tread void can be labelled as M+S."

"In order to meet this standard, tires must be tested using an American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) testing procedure described in “RMA Definition for Passenger and Light Truck Tires for use in Severe Snow Conditions”. Tires designed for use in severe snow conditions are recognized by manufacturers to attain a traction index equal to or greater than 110 compared to the ASTM E-1136 Standard Reference Test Tire when using the ASTM F-1805 snow traction test with equivalent percentage loads."

Now, I'll admit that many tires may be able to meet the traction test w/o having the snowflake symbol. But as a selling point (people looking for severe snow tires), why wouldn't they test and then market it as such?

Right now, I'm looking at the Michelin's and nothing has the snowflake and is not a pure winter tire. So I broaden my search and check out other tires like the Goodyear Silent Armors. If the M/S *had* the snowflake, it would simply be another sale.

GYSA are a good one, my friend here drives those year round. A better AT snow choice would be the Nokian Vativva.

The snowflake can be important in some areas that require you to have snow tires or chains. The snowflake is the defiinition of a snow tire at the checkpoints for some silly reason.

A real snow tire is superior. Period.