New Tires Came (Finally) *PICS*

[Thai]

B) The KO's are over hyped and everyone has them (I have worked very hard to make my truck look unique)

And I realize I will get flamed for that from Thai, since that little symbol is his holy grail.

So, lets examine your tire choice, Josh. Quite simply, your tire choice is wrong and shows your lack of experience IMHO. Why?

1. You chose your tire based on looks. You say that everyone has BFG AT KO. Did it ever occur to you why? Why are there so many Camrys on the road? Is it because it is a poorly made car or is it because it is such a well-made proven car? BFG AT KO has earned a reputation second to none in the off-roading crowd. When Toyota wanted a tire for it's off-road special edition FJ Cruiser, which tire did Toyota pick? BFG AT KO. When Ford wanted a tire to match it's off-road-ready upcoming F150 Raptor, which tire did they pick? BFG AT KO. When Dodge wanted an off-road tire for it's super truck Dodge PowerWagon, what tire did Dodge go with? BFG AT KO. When Hummer wanted off-road tire for its H2, what did they go with? BFG AT KO. But, when owners wanted more bling-bling (aka big) rims, what tire did Hummer choose?? Nitto TerraGrappler. Don't believe me? Go to your local Hummer dealer. (BTW, all of these manufacturers have contract with various tire companies, including Bridgestones, Michelins, etc.)

2. Remind everyone here what happened to your old Nitto (265 size) on it's last off-roading trip. Yes, Josh got a flat tire while off-roading. Why? Well, he was scared to air down his NItto TG because he feared that the sidewall was too weak. Why did he have this fear? Well, it was because he picked a P-rated Nitto TG, despite everyone's objection when he was deciding which tire to get. So, pumped up Nitto + off-roading = flat.

Now, you would think a young person like Josh would learn his lesson and pick a more sturdy tire. Nope, he picked the same tire, same P-rated Nitto, but this time it's bigger AND wider.

As i mentioned above, this is a poor choice...in fact, a very poor choice. Why? Well, i think that he is using stock rims, which is made for 265-series tires. When you put on 285-tires, the sidewall bulge out quite a bit with weight of the 4runner. To alleviate some of this bulging, you need to pump up your tire to mega PSIs.

Lets not get into the fact of uneven wear of a fat tire on a thin rim, but think about off-roading. Josh off-roads more than most of us...he off-roads quite often from what i understand. You can correct me anytime Josh. So, here we have a person who off-roads quite often, but then chooses a tire that is wrong for HIS purpose. A tire that is:

a) canNOT be aired down while off-roading because you only increase the sidewall bulge and put more pressure on it. With the sidewall sticking out like a sore thumb, it will be an easy target for sharp rocks. Normally, in other tougher tire, this is a good thing. However, his P-rated tire has a very thin sidewall (don't believe me, go check it out for yourself!)...so, guess what? POP!

b) aired up for off-roading. Since he can't air down, he has to run pretty high PSIs. Well, one of the key to off-roading and maintaining traction over uneven terrain is AIRING DOWN. In fact, on the 4runner, airing down is almost mandatory to prevent tire slipping, which enhances the effectiveness of the 4wd system. Airing down is also a must while going up or down a rockclimb because you can shift weight away from gravity. I just learned this and has helped me greatly.

AIRING DOWN PREVENTS FLAT TIRES and IMPROVES YOUR OFF-ROAD CAPABILITY OF YOUR TRUCK.

In fact, an off-road instructor once told me that NO ONE should have a flat tire off-road IF properly equipped. Think about it...you just don't see a guy on the trail with a flat tire often. The instructor even argues that you don't really need a spare tire (this is where i disagree with him, but i am a bit of a paranoid person!). If you air down correctly AND have tires that can be aired down, then your chance of a flat tire is very very small. This is the basics of off-roading.

3. As for the snowflake symbol, my opinion is shared by EVERYONE in the tire industry...and a member on here recently stated that Canada will make snowflake tires mandatory during the winter months and a big fine will be given for anything else. The fact that you do not share this opinion makes you a minority.

Does this surprise me? Not at all...how many suspension system has Josh gone through?? He clearly does not know what he wants out of his 4runner.... (oh wait, josh has heard this many times on BOTH forums...and thus spends his days here more because we're nicer...right, Josh?)

 

[HB 4X4]

Like I said, I would get flamed for stating any opinion other than what Thai would call his own.

My 3 reasons have nothing to do with any of the post from what I saw while skimming through it.

A) Spare still wouldn't fit.

B) They are still overhyped and I choose not to run them. It's a personal choice, there is no need for attacking someone based off of that.

Camburg runs Nitto's so they are obviously still a great tire, among many other avid offroaders.

C) I stated that it was on people OPINIONS and strictly based off of those opinions, that Nitto's seem to handle better in snow. I never once claimed that they have been proven, just that I read many reviews on this topic. I even wrote a disclaimer on that.

Everything else was irrelevant babbling meant to spark a larger flame war. Back to your old antics I see.

 

[HB 4X4]

Hey Thai,
How about we keep this thread somewhat on topic? I made 3 statements, and you cam back with about a dozen. The first 2 were correct and/or opinion. The 3rd was the only one that could be contested, but I specifically mentioned that it's just what I found on quite a few reviews. I noticed that many people weren't very happy with their KO's after they were worn about 10K miles into ownership, most of which that was complained about, was snow. I never claimed that it was fact, so relax.

P.S. I didn't air down my 265's because I didn't have my good compressor yet. Airing up 4 tires with a $20 compressor from Auto Zone doesn't sound like much fun, what do you think?

 

[BlairB]

Thai,

The last time Josh got a flat when we were wheeling, it was not on the trail, but on the road away from it due to a decent sized nail.

Also, I was the one who was more afraid about airing down, not Josh. There is no real reason for this and I would have felt the same way about BFG's if they were the same rating (although I do think they have an extra ply in comparison to the Nittos, you would know better than me ) and for whats it worth, have not heard anyone damaging their sidewalls on their Nittos. I know airing down has many advantages, but I think I was underestimating them at the time and that combined with my laziness/poor compressor led me to not air down

I am also young like Josh, but between my friends and myself we have had quite a bit of experience off roading for our age and most of us have used Nittos without any problems.

I also beat Josh in the flat tire category, I have had 3 flats (whoops), two came from nails in the road and one came from too much dirt in the bead, I dont think there would have been any fewer if I was running BFG's

 

[Thai]

Hey Thai,
How about we keep this thread somewhat on topic? I made 3 statements, and you cam back with about a dozen. The first 2 were correct and/or opinion. The 3rd was the only one that could be contested, but I specifically mentioned that it's just what I found on quite a few reviews. I noticed that many people weren't very happy with their KO's after they were worn about 10K miles into ownership, most of which that was complained about, was snow. I never claimed that it was fact, so relax.

P.S. I didn't air down my 265's because I didn't have my good compressor yet. Airing up 4 tires with a $20 compressor from Auto Zone doesn't sound like much fun, what do you think?

I thought that you were just skimming?? Two posts to answer me? I feel honored! My old tricks? Oh, you mean criticizing you for dumbfounded decisions made by you? If that is the case, then yes, i am...for the benefit of others!

Well, you mentioned specifically that you were scared of airing down in that thread a while back, Josh...lets not change the story here. (And as BlairB pointed out, this was the case between you guys.) Again, for off-roading, you have to put FUNCTION OVER FORM. There is no pretty-in-pink crap when you take your rig off-road! The right equipment for the job. Why would you have a $20 air compressor for the off-roading that you do?? Why pick a tire that is P-rated for off-roading? That is simply inexperienced (and that is me being polite!).

In fact, the off-roading instructor i mentioned above (Harald on 4x4abc.com) does not even care for LT tire Load Range C or below. There was one FJ Cruiser (with BFG AT KO 265/70/17 C) on one of his trip that blew out the tire simply because he was carrying too much weight. For SUV the size of 4runners and above, you need to have the right tire IF you're planning to go off-roading. Josh, your decision to get Nitto P-rated is not well-founded, no matter how you look at it.

Off-roading is about having the right equipment for the job. I cannot emphasize this enough.

These criticisms are not meant to change your thinking Josh...i don't think that anyone knows what you are thinking! However, these criticisms are for the other members of this forum...so that they can avoid making a mistake in arming their SUVs for off-roading.

 

[Thai]

I also beat Josh in the flat tire category, I have had 3 flats (whoops), two came from nails in the road and one came from too much dirt in the bead, I dont think there would have been any fewer if I was running BFG's

Well, i am not a big fan of Nittos anyway...but i admit that YOUR modifications make sense with the Jeep BFG M/Ts (one of my favorite tire). Tall tires are good for off-roading.

Josh, on the other hand, has fat tires on skinny rims PLUS wimpy tires (P-rated!!) PLUS airing down = bad news...asking for trouble!

It looks like Josh does things mainly for looks. Hmmm, i wonder how these tires will hold up off-road when he gets his aftermarket bumpers, roof rack with stuff on it, hilift, etc.??? These are major poundage! You don't play around with P-rated tires if you're off-roading, esp. if you plan on putting on some armor!! This tire mod of his belongs in the category: "WTF were you thinking??!!"

Josh, if you're serious about off-roading, then do it right or else you'll be just holding up the line while off-roading either from a flat tire or being stuck (because you did not air down). I know that i will be piss if someone were that negligent off-road.

 

[Thai]

What is the diameter of the tire? 285 Nitto's are 32.7" and it's clearing my panhard bar by the hairs on the tire. Literally...

I also have an aftermarket exhaust which might play a factor. You'll have to test fit it yourself. If the Coopers are any larger than 32.7 it will not fit without rubbing badly. I have to keep an eye on this because it could still be problematic (hypothetically) while offroading when that bar moves up/down with the axle. You could always try finding a well used Cooper to throw in your spare. As my tires get worn, the gap that my spare has should increase, so if you find a well worn tire, like 10K-20K miles on it, it may fit.

See this thread:
(Scroll down to see the pictures of how close it is to the bar.)
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47211&highlight=285s

Hmm, did not even see this post my first time around....

Josh, your spare tire and the panhard bar are probably too close for comfort, esp. if you take it off-roading over rough terrain...even with a worn 285 tire. Not a good thing. You need to find another spare tire option....

 

[Trdsupranick]

Thai...whats your opinion on Cooper Discoverer STTs?

 

[Thai]

Thai...whats your opinion on Cooper Discoverer STTs?

See: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22027&highlight=firestone+destination+m/t

Basically, here is what i read about them:

"Cooper STT...from what i have been reading, these tires are pretty darn good and relatively cheap too. They come with siping from factory and is apparently very well made. Cooper is a USA company and has a good reputation, but in 2004, they did have to settle a few lawsuits due to material mishap resulting in a few deaths (similar to what Firestone went thru). Cooper tires are distributed everywhere in the world...and they are well known in Australia. These tires do well on-road...relatively quiet (probably on-par with Firestone M/T), do well in rain and snow/ice due to well-placed siping (similar to Toyo M/T above). They do well in mud from what i hear. They self-clean better than MT/R. On rocks, i hear that they are OK. Apparently, the rubber compound is hard...so these tires don't stick to rocks like MT/R (and some of the other MTs)...a review mentioned that this resulted in sliding sideways on rocks. Other people had no complaints about these tires on rocks. Treadwear is pretty good too, similar to above two tires."

Hope this helps.

 

[HB 4X4]

You seem to be very against P rated tires. I thought you were a fan of the less aggressive forms? Being you drive a mini-van and all.

Daily driver= I don't want the 10 ply on LT rated tires.


Next year or so when I buy another vehicle to replace this one as my daily driver, I will warp this into a full-time trail rig. That's when I will put on the LT tires.

 

[Thai]

You seem to be very against P rated tires. I thought you were a fan of the less aggressive forms? Being you drive a mini-van and all.

Daily driver= I don't want the 10 ply on LT rated tires.


Next year or so when I buy another vehicle to replace this one as my daily driver, I will warp this into a full-time trail rig. That's when I will put on the LT tires.

You're right...you might as well put on minivan tires on your 4runner...your 4runner will just be as capable! Fairly useless "upgrade" you made there Josh....

Off-road more than camping = LT rated tires.

So, my question, are you not planning to air down? If so, then please stay off the trails.

 

[HB 4X4]

You're right...you might as well put on minivan tires on your 4runner...your 4runner will just be as capable! Fairly useless "upgrade" you made there Josh....

Off-road more than camping = LT rated tires.

So, my question, are you not planning to air down? If so, then please stay off the trails.

Right...

Anyways,
I will air down, and I will off-road as I have for the past year without any problems. You say I will run into these problems, yet I still have not. Could this just be your biased hatred for Nitto's?

"Off-road more than camping = LT rated tires."

-I think that "On-road more than off-road = P rated" would be a better statement. Just because I off-road more than the majority of members, doesn't take away the fact that It's my daily driver and the P rated Nitto's are still very well suited for off-roading. All of the tire shops I have ever talked to have stated this.

 

[Thai]

Right...

Anyways,
I will air down, and I will off-road as I have for the past year without any problems. You say I will run into these problems, yet I still have not. Could this just be your biased hatred for Nitto's?

"Off-road more than camping = LT rated tires."

-I think that "On-road more than off-road = P rated" would be a better statement. Just because I off-road more than the majority of members, doesn't take away the fact that It's my daily driver and the P rated Nitto's are still very well suited for off-roading. All of the tire shops I have ever talked to have stated this.

Those shops love to trick a fool into buying anything...of course, this is a general statement and does not necessarily apply to you.

Really? Those tire shops are full of off-roaders!

Air down?? Well, from pictures of your past events, i can't recall one picture of you airing down. Strange, isn't it??

As for P vs. LT, i would say the same thing if you had gotten P-rated Michelins or P-rated REVOs.

Why don't you ask the "other" forum about your tire choice, specifically your choice of a P-rated tire?? You will be laughed at even more than here! (I know...nothing new for you, but it's worth a laugh or two....)

Don't believe me? Ask anyone who has experience off-road! Your tire choice is a joke....

 

[HB 4X4]

Those shops love to trick a fool into buying anything...of course, this is a general statement and does not necessarily apply to you.

Really? Those tire shops are full of off-roaders!

Air down?? Well, from pictures of your past events, i can't recall one picture of you airing down. Strange, isn't it??

As for P vs. LT, i would say the same thing if you had gotten P-rated Michelins or P-rated REVOs.

Why don't you ask the "other" forum about your tire choice, specifically your choice of a P-rated tire?? You will be laughed at even more than here! (I know...nothing new for you, but it's worth a laugh or two....)

Don't believe me? Ask anyone who has experience off-road! Your tire choice is a joke....

Why don't you make an account on those other forums rather than just lurking in the shadows? Oh right, they don't have a section for mini-vans or giant black toasters.

 

[Thai]

Why don't you make an account on those other forums rather than just lurking in the shadows? Oh right, they don't have a section for mini-vans or giant black toasters.

Hey, i am proud of my cars...i know what they are and i know what purpose they serve. I don't pretend to be something i am not....

 

[bobbyavidity]

Those look great man!

 

[HB 4X4]

Those look great man!

Thanks man. How's your truck coming along?

 

[hammersc]

what in the world is going on in here. you two sound like a couple of 2nd graders fighting over who's daddy could beat up the other's daddy.

Josh likes Nittos and so do lots of people. Thai likes BFG KOs and so do lots of people. Put your juice boxes in the trash and come in from recess guys. It's only rubber.

:biggrin2: Be glad you can afford nice aftermarket items during this tough financial time, regardless of brand.

 

[HB 4X4]

what in the world is going on in here. you two sound like a couple of 2nd graders fighting over who's daddy could beat up the other's daddy.

Josh likes Nittos and so do lots of people. Thai likes BFG KOs and so do lots of people. Put your juice boxes in the trash and come in from recess guys. It's only rubber.

:biggrin2: Be glad you can afford nice aftermarket items during this tough financial time, regardless of brand.

Way to bring back a dead argument. There's no hard feelings, so you shouldn't have any either.

Yep, I am very glad I can purchase mods for my truck as well as put money away for retirement during these tough times.

Bump back on topic please.

On the issue of fitting the spare in the stock location, I will be taking close note of the section that is very close to the panhard bar. I will be removing the spare soon to do my rear differential breather so I'll check if there has been any rubbing during the last few off-road trips that could be potentially problematic.

 

[hammersc]

Oh woops. I didn't even see the date gap. I was too into the exchange. Didn't mean to bring up old stuff.

Your truck looks badass by the way.