New Toytec Lift = Terrible Handling

[Volley]

Yea do yourself a favor and get a lifetime alignment...Firestone and Tire Plus have them. Does sound like your caster may be off. Also there are a lot of inexpensive options other than spacers for the front if you are interested.

 

[1985taylor1925]

i had the same wandering issue after installing my sonoran steel lift.
a set of 1.25" wheel spacers did the trick.
drives great now.

That doesnt make sense. Wheel spacers made my steering wander easier. And simple geometry confirms that. When you widen the front wheel base you increase the distance the tires swivel when turning because youre extending them further from their pivot point. This means your steering will feel looser as less energy is required to push the tires along their axis. The closer in the tire is to the pivot point the tighter the steering is.

 

[CodyX36]

I gamble in northern Idaho every year.

 

[OU4x4]

That doesnt make sense. Wheel spacers made my steering wander easier. And simple geometry confirms that. When you widen the front wheel base you increase the distance the tires swivel when turning because youre extending them further from their pivot point. This means your steering will feel looser as less energy is required to push the tires along their axis. The closer in the tire is to the pivot point the tighter the steering is.

actually it makes perfect sense.
on a stock rig where the suspension geometry hasn't been changed, yes, adding spacers and widening the track will adversely affect the steering

but, on our lifted rigs we are changing the suspension geometry
lifting the truck, 1. makes the vehicle taller and 2. moves the front wheels in toward the center of the vehicle
a taller vehicle with a narrower track will be less stable
adding the wheel spacers moves the wheels back toward the stock location (or maybe a bit wider) which brings the stability back.
think about it, are you easier to push around if you stand with your feet close together or when you have a wider stance?

 

[1985taylor1925]

actually it makes perfect sense.
on a stock rig where the suspension geometry hasn't been changed, yes, adding spacers and widening the track will adversely affect the steering

but, on our lifted rigs we are changing the suspension geometry
lifting the truck, 1. makes the vehicle taller and 2. moves the front wheels in toward the center of the vehicle
a taller vehicle with a narrower track will be less stable
adding the wheel spacers moves the wheels back toward the stock location (or maybe a bit wider) which brings the stability back.
think about it, are you easier to push around if you stand with your feet close together or when you have a wider stance?

Youre right that the tires move in closer as you lift the truck, because the a arms are at a steeper angle. However, the analogy about standing with your feet wider makes absolutely no sense in this application. You must have ignored the part about the pivot axis. In the back end, yes a wheel spacer will help stabilize the rear simply because its a solid axel, with no pivot points, and your widening the stance with the spacers.

When you lift the front, the arms are at a steeper angle, which bring the tire in slightly, along with the entire pivot point. Lifting your truck does not change the pivot axis that the wheel turns on. Putting more space (a wheel spacer) between the pivot point and end point (the tire) changes the axis. The lift has no part in that equation.

 

[OU4x4]

The OP didn't say his steering was sloppy, he said the truck wandered.
narrower tracks will be less stable than a wider one.
moving the wheels out with spacers will help that.
One negative with that is that it puts more stress on the steering components but that is a durability issue, not a stability one.

All I can do is post about my experiences. Spacers made my ride better.
The more info people have, the better.

 

[JayRolla]

I also agree that you need too realign. Go to a different shop. I have only had the wandering around feeling when alignment was off and I have ran spacers on stock blown out shocks.

 

[1985taylor1925]

The OP didn't say his steering was sloppy, he said the truck wandered.
narrower tracks will be less stable than a wider one.
moving the wheels out with spacers will help that.
One negative with that is that it puts more stress on the steering components but that is a durability issue, not a stability one.

All I can do is post about my experiences. Spacers made my ride better.
The more info people have, the better.

Ok, so sorry for my amature drawing. I dont have any software programs to illustrate this in motion. But the drawing still shows it all.

The pivot points are shown. I only drew the tire on the left side so I could illustrate the geometry easier on the right side. Obviously this is a top, or bottom view, and the wheels are turned to the right.

The steering rack essentially acts as a stabalizer when youre not turning the steering wheel. It helps keep the vehicle tracking straight by holding the wheels in place so that they dont move along their axis. Hence the reason warn out bushing make steering sloppier, because they allow the rack gear to move easier. The line perpendicular to the tire is exaggerated in length to illustrate the point. If you increase the distance between the pivot point on that line and the tire on the other end of it, you create more leverage for the tire to turn. If you wanted to get the steering rack to move easier, you would just put a cheater bar on the end of that line where the tire should be to extend your leverage and it would make it significantly easier to pivot. The cheater bar can be thought of as a spacer because its the exact same principle - they both extend that line.

As a practical example, you hit a good sized pot hole with your right tire. With a shorter distance between the pivot point and wheel, there is less leverage to pull the tire to the right as it digs into the pothole. If you extend that distance, there is more leverage created when the tire hits the pot hole, making it easier to move the steering gear, causing the wheel in reaction to pivot to the right. This of course means your steering would feel more sloppy and handling would be worse.

Sorry for getting off topic op. I just wanted to illustrate my point. And I think its valuable info as it relates to handling.

 

[4-Ripcord]

Yeah the title was kind of accusatory... not intentional at all.
I will get another alignment done first and see if that helps.

Thanks

You're good. We all write things we don't realize we are saying. Sorry for seeming harsh! :cheers:

Taylor's post reminded me of a very simple fix I completely forgot about. He mentioned the steering rack bushings. I replaced those a while back and wow did it make a difference!

This is the one I am talking about: 4Runner Steering Rack Bushing Kit - Wheeler's Off-Road, Inc

Before you go get another alignment, do this! (you will need an alignment afterwards) Also as others mentioned, a lifetime alignment is a wonderful investment!

But as others also mentioned, going above 3" of lift takes away pretty much all of the caster these trucks have. But not much can be done about that now.

 

[1985taylor1925]

You're good. We all write things we don't realize we are saying. Sorry for seeming harsh! :cheers:

Taylor's post reminded me of a very simple fix I completely forgot about. He mentioned the steering rack bushings. I replaced those a while back and wow did it make a difference!

This is the one I am talking about: 4Runner Steering Rack Bushing Kit - Wheeler's Off-Road, Inc

Before you go get another alignment, do this! (you will need an alignment afterwards) Also as others mentioned, a lifetime alignment is a wonderful investment!

But as others also mentioned, going above 3" of lift takes away pretty much all of the caster these trucks have. But not much can be done about that now.

Dangit my stupid picture made the entire thread a foot wider!

Ya for the op that bushing kit might really help tighten up your steering rack. And I would definately suggest getting rid of those spacers. You could probably sell them for a decent amount and for just a little more money get a good used front set up, like the tundra coils, or performance products coils, or even the 99 coils with a 1" spacer.

 

[t4r505]

Don't bash toytec becuase YOU chose what is commonly known as the cheapest and worst lifting method and didn't like it..

Lifted vehicles ride worse, its just a fact. Lift springs will ride better than spacers, but you will still be riding on over-extended stock shocks. And that will still feel bad. You really need new proper length shocks and springs for a good lift.

That is not true. Not all lifts make the ride worse. When I still had my 4Runner the lift made the ride better.

Also 'ride worse' is a subjective statement not everyone likes riding like a Cadillac and some people do.

 

[ndcent]

I like to refer to my spine crunching stiffness as "responsive." :snacker:

 

[Antpwr]

I had the same problem with mine turns out the shop had not gotten their machine calibrated in a while took it somewhere else and the issue was solved its back again but it needs new chassis parts . So alignment is what is needed

 

[4-Ripcord]

That is not true. Not all lifts make the ride worse. When I still had my 4Runner the lift made the ride better.

Also 'ride worse' is a subjective statement not everyone likes riding like a Cadillac and some people do.

First post in 6 months is to nitpick at mine?.. cool story bro. Aren't you so useful.

 

[t4r505]

I appreciate that bro, the jersey shore hit corrales, nm.

I lurk quite often actually though, that clownmeat thread is pretty epic.

 

[ndcent]

aww, a bromance!

 

[4-Ripcord]

Lol, this guy..

Did you ever get an alignment, OP?

 

[t4r505]

aww, a bromance!

Ohhhh, you know...

 

[absalom]

Welcome to the ****ty ride of a spacer lift. If I were you, I wouldn't spend another dime on an alignment. Save up every dime for a 5100 Eibach combo and THEN get it aligned. I promise you (from experience) you'll never be satisfied with a spacer lift. Do it soon, before your truck develops a million new rattles from the stiff ride.

Good luck man!