Newbie - Live and Learn

[Sparty92]

Hey gang!

I just bought my first Toyota...a 2002 4Runner Sport Edition! I did some researching and looking around my area, I found 3 contenders to choose from.

I ended up going with the cleanest one, which also happened to have the lowest miles and cheapest price! I bought it from a mom n' pop dealer near the middle of Michigan by the thumb area, and they told me they had so many calls on the truck after they listed it! They wished they had raised the price! But, I grabbed it for $5995. Only 144K miles!

The body on this was SUPER clean! I was told it came from "out west" or was a "southern car," so that may have explained it. Then I pulled a carfax.

It was consistently registered in WI. The underside showed some rust on the trailer hitch and rear diff...which was painted or undercoated black (?!), but the frame rails on the outside seemed great! Under the hood, same greatness! Except for some black paint overspray....on a silver engine compartment. Hmm...

I was able to call one of the Toyota dealers on the carfax to inquire about the 110K mile service.

"We replaced the radiator, all the hoses and did about 3-4 trans flushes."

Did it have the "Strawberry Milkshake", I asked.

"Yes, but we totally cleaned everything out and it was working great."

This was done 35K miles ago...so I asked him if he thought it'd be ok? Would HE buy this car? "I would not worry about this at all. Everything has been replaced and completely cleaned out."

Well, I figured if anything was going to go wrong with that service, it would have happened within 35K more miles, right? I asked a few other people what they thought...and they agreed. Buy it.

I bought it on a Friday afternoon, and made the 1 hour drive home. My first stop was the local Toyota dealership (the same one who did the rad/trans fix), to get an oil change and talk about other maintenance services.

It was the cleanest "old" truck in the shop! Many techs came by to check it out while it was up in the air.

"So what do you think? Pretty clean, huh!? Sweet, yeah?"

"I'd sell it," said one of the techs. He was poking around the frame at the painted over rust, and then his screwdriver went through. The frame. He poked some more, revealing a bigger hole.

"But I just bought it! Like, 3 hours ago!"

"See if you can return it?"

I called the mom n' pop dealer and told them my discovery. The very next day, I returned the truck to them and got all of my money back (they hadn't cashed the check yet).

So there you have it. I owned a REALLY clean '02 4Runner for about a day in total, and got to drive it for 3 hours, tops. It drove GREAT, but...you can't have a frame rotting away.

As a result of this lesson, I look for advice from this community. What other model 4Runners (newer) would you suggest I look at? I have a NEW budget of maybe $10-15K. I would consider going out of state (Michigan) to get it, but I don't know much about the newer models. I need to do more research here.

Pretty bummed out that I bought a lemon, but, I'm glad it all worked out in the end.

:hello:

 

[USKTog]

Hey gang!

I just bought my first Toyota...a 2002 4Runner Sport Edition! I did some researching and looking around my area, I found 3 contenders to choose from.

I ended up going with the cleanest one, which also happened to have the lowest miles and cheapest price! I bought it from a mom n' pop dealer near the middle of Michigan by the thumb area, and they told me they had so many calls on the truck after they listed it! They wished they had raised the price! But, I grabbed it for $5995. Only 144K miles!

The body on this was SUPER clean! I was told it came from "out west" or was a "southern car," so that may have explained it. Then I pulled a carfax.

It was consistently registered in WI. The underside showed some rust on the trailer hitch and rear diff...which was painted or undercoated black (?!), but the frame rails on the outside seemed great! Under the hood, same greatness! Except for some black paint overspray....on a silver engine compartment. Hmm...

I was able to call one of the Toyota dealers on the carfax to inquire about the 110K mile service.

"We replaced the radiator, all the hoses and did about 3-4 trans flushes."

Did it have the "Strawberry Milkshake", I asked.

"Yes, but we totally cleaned everything out and it was working great."

This was done 35K miles ago...so I asked him if he thought it'd be ok? Would HE buy this car? "I would not worry about this at all. Everything has been replaced and completely cleaned out."

Well, I figured if anything was going to go wrong with that service, it would have happened within 35K more miles, right? I asked a few other people what they thought...and they agreed. Buy it.

I bought it on a Friday afternoon, and made the 1 hour drive home. My first stop was the local Toyota dealership (the same one who did the rad/trans fix), to get an oil change and talk about other maintenance services.

It was the cleanest "old" truck in the shop! Many techs came by to check it out while it was up in the air.

"So what do you think? Pretty clean, huh!? Sweet, yeah?"

"I'd sell it," said one of the techs. He was poking around the frame at the painted over rust, and then his screwdriver went through. The frame. He poked some more, revealing a bigger hole.

"But I just bought it! Like, 3 hours ago!"

"See if you can return it?"

I called the mom n' pop dealer and told them my discovery. The very next day, I returned the truck to them and got all of my money back (they hadn't cashed the check yet).

So there you have it. I owned a REALLY clean '02 4Runner for about a day in total, and got to drive it for 3 hours, tops. It drove GREAT, but...you can't have a frame rotting away.

As a result of this lesson, I look for advice from this community. What other model 4Runners (newer) would you suggest I look at? I have a NEW budget of maybe $10-15K. I would consider going out of state (Michigan) to get it, but I don't know much about the newer models. I need to do more research here.

Pretty bummed out that I bought a lemon, but, I'm glad it all worked out in the end.

:hello:

Wow...that must have nearly caused a heart attack! Glad you were able to return and get your money back.

Rule#1 in my book is to pull a CarFax before ANY $$ is discussed. But, I never rely solely on a carfax. I do my best to poke, prod, dig and look for things as well as take it to a reputable mechanic for a pre-purchase evaluation (usually on a test drive).

Beyond that, I think taking time to slow down just a little , make sure the emotion is removed from the equation before you buy.

 

[Slowgoat]

Unreal you got your money back!

I take a little hammer and wack the crap out of the frame. I crawl all around under the vehicle and do a super thorough inspection.

Then I get a pro to inspect it.

I looked at a buch of garbage for 13 months before I found a decent deal.

I agree tat taking the emotion out of it is the key.

 

[Sparty92]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I did crawl around a bit, and even drove a friend of mine up there to look with me (1 hour drive each way! Twice in one day!). He's familiar with Jeeps and 4WD in general....and...auto detailing.

He told me they are sometimes told to apply black paint or undercoating to make the cars look better for the customer: "Oh look! You even painted the frame for me! Looks great!"

That's something we car guys don't wanna see done to a car. It's deceptive and generally looks like crap.

The car was on a gravel parking lot, so we laid a drop cloth down and used a good flashlight to inspect what we could see. I thought about hiring a mechanic to check stuff out or to get it on a lift but....it just wasn't going to happen this time.

The owners of the dealer were a nice Christian couple and I think they knew what the "right thing" to do was, in this situation. They were actually able to take it back to the auction where they got it...and get THEIR money back, if I'm not mistaken.

I guess I had the feeling in the back of my mind that it would be some major inconvenience for a small dealership to let you take their car up into the air and start banging away at stuff to see if anything is broken. I would want them to be there if I was to do that, and this guy was a hard working man who most likely didn't have time for that.

I think the fact that I called him within hours of buying the car may have helped, rather than waiting a week or two to reveal my discovery. He took me at my word, and didn't even inspect my claims...he just gave me my check back.

In the end, I think it worked out for both parties, but...as I stated as the topic of this thread, "Live and Learn."

Going forward, I think I'm going to set criteria for the next purchase:
1. Buy from a dealer specializing in the Brand. Jeep for a Jeep dealer, Toyota for a Toyota dealer, etc. Not a mom 'n pop dealer....or, buying a Jeep from the BMW dealer. Etc.

2. Raise my budget. Buy something 4-5 years old, instead of 12. Lower miles, little to no rust

If you guys can suggest a newer 4Runner model that I should look into, I'd sure appreciate it!

Thanks.

 

[KidVermicious]

Don't buy from dealers at all, they suck and you pay a premium to get railed up the ass. Buy private sale, and do your homework before you pull the trigger. If the seller won't let you do your due diligence, walk away - it's a sign he knows what you're going to find. I'm always on alert when I see unexplained fresh paint or a super-clean engine bay - that stuff stands out on otherwise well-used cars, and tells me somebody is hiding something. Watch for the guy that drops his price too easy when you start to dicker, too - any seller that's too eager is suspect.

Nothing wrong with continuing your shopping for 3rd gens, just count your blessings that you learned this lesson without too much pain. Go in a skeptic and do not under any circumstances let yourself fall in love before you've given the truck a good snogging first. Good luck!