No crank, no start oddness

[Hippo393]

I'm deep into troubleshooting a sudden onset of no crank no start. Every 5th or 7th time I turn the key, it cranks up and runs fine. All other times I just hear a "click". Occasionally it'll start sluggishly and I get the check-engine light on, and it has thrown codes P0335 and P0340 (crankshaft and camshaft position sensors). Has this happened to anyone before? When it runs it has great acceleration and power, so I don't believe the codes. Should I? The CEL does go away on its own after I drive it a couple times.

This most recent occurrence happened after further troubleshooting where I rigged a hot wire from the + battery directly to the starter solenoid whilst the key was in the start position. Just as when turning the key normally, it sometimes starts and most other times just makes a "Click".

Lots of great threads here regarding the trouble codes as well as troubleshooting starting issues, but I haven't yet seen one with both involved. If it's the starter/solenoid going bad, how/why would I get those codes? And if the codes are real, then why does the truck run normally when it does start? :noidea:

I'll hang up and listen to your responses off the air. Thanks!
-Alan

P.S.: Troubleshooting so far: New battery, cleaned batt clamps, headlights indeed dim when key's in start position, verfied 12V being sent to starter via ignition, plus the hotwire directly to starter. Same "click", then nothing most times.

 

[JayRolla]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/62409-your-starter-going-quick-easy-repair.html

 

[Hippo393]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/62409-your-starter-going-quick-easy-repair.html

Thanks JayRolla,

Is that it then? Are you sure?

If it's indeed a starter problem, then it appears that's the next natural step in troubleshooting/fixing. But can I assume then from your response that the thrown trouble-codes are irrelevant? If so, what therefore might have caused multiple crankshaft and camshaft codes if it is only a starter contact issue?? And what if they happen again after the starter-fix? (which would be a bummer because I'd have chased a false rabbit-trail)

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

Thanks JayRolla,

Is that it then? Are you sure?

If it's indeed a starter problem, then it appears that's the next natural step in troubleshooting/fixing. But can I assume then from your response that the thrown trouble-codes are irrelevant? If so, what therefore might have caused multiple crankshaft and camshaft codes if it is only a starter contact issue?? And what if they happen again after the starter-fix? (which would be a bummer because I'd have chased a false rabbit-trail)

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

I believe the codes tripped because during one of your start session, The starter went to turn the motor ever so slightly and tripped the codes. The ECM read both sensor move just a little and stop tripping a Malfunction code. If the codes had anything to do with the issue your motor would turn over and u would find no spark and no injector spray. Because the ecm sees that Hall effect CAM sensor signal does match up with the Magnetic crank sensor signal shutting off power to key area to protect the motor. . . . If in some interesting circumstances all 3 are the issue. Then Start with replacing starter contacts which are common to wear completely out and render the start dead in the water.

 

[LookAtThatDog]

It's def the starter contacts. If the codes go away then they're bs. Also, IMO, the starter contact fix was a ***** even without completely removing the starter. Took forever, needed lots of extensions and endless amount of patience. It was a 2 person 5 hour job for me, YMMV

 

[Hippo393]

Thanks gang, it indeed was the starter.

After learning about the job from epic writeups and comments from members here, I felt like had already experienced the starter fix before even getting under there. Took about an hour from "start" (ha ha) to removal, and 40 min to reinstall & button up.

The worn contacts looked like the ones in other photos posted. Toyota didn't have the correct contacts, which was a pain. NAPA didn't either, but a reman'd starter went for $100. Yet NAPA had a deal where if you buy a bucket, you get 20% off things that fit in it. The starter fit nicely in it, and I was out the door for ~$90 after tax & tip with a bright yellow bucket that I can later kick.

 

[TheDurk]

Thanks gang, it indeed was the starter.

After learning about the job from epic writeups and comments from members here, I felt like had already experienced the starter fix before even getting under there. Took about an hour from "start" (ha ha) to removal, and 40 min to reinstall & button up.

The worn contacts looked like the ones in other photos posted. Toyota didn't have the correct contacts, which was a pain. NAPA didn't either, but a reman'd starter went for $100. Yet NAPA had a deal where if you buy a bucket, you get 20% off things that fit in it. The starter fit nicely in it, and I was out the door for ~$90 after tax & tip with a bright yellow bucket that I can later kick.

Please tell me you did NOT just turn in a perfectly good bulletproof factory DENSO starter that just needed contacts to be good for another 15 years for a NAPA reman that is likely to fail in the not too distant future. I hate to tell you, but I consider this a very unwise move.

Amazon has the contacts, if no where else. If you did not turn in the old one yet, keep it, eat the core charge, change the contacts and hold onto it. You're gonna need it.

 

[JayRolla]

Thanks gang, it indeed was the starter.

After learning about the job from epic writeups and comments from members here, I felt like had already experienced the starter fix before even getting under there. Took about an hour from "start" (ha ha) to removal, and 40 min to reinstall & button up.

The worn contacts looked like the ones in other photos posted. Toyota didn't have the correct contacts, which was a pain. NAPA didn't either, but a reman'd starter went for $100. Yet NAPA had a deal where if you buy a bucket, you get 20% off things that fit in it. The starter fit nicely in it, and I was out the door for ~$90 after tax & tip with a bright yellow bucket that I can later kick.

That sucks, expect to be doing that job again in a few years or less. Always go OEM.

 

[Hippo393]

Wouldn't "Denso" be stamped on it somewhere? The starter that I took off had no identification marks on it which led me to believe it wasn't OEM; perhaps it was changed out before I became owner in 2009. Plus it had been covered in oil inside & out from a nagging valve cover gasket leak which is next on the list to fix.

No it's not OEM, but NAPA is good with electronics compared to AutoZone & Advance, and came with a 3-year warranty. I put a NAPA starter on our '97 Camry several years ago and it's been fine (knocking on wood & head). But to your point on OEM, I'll keep an eye out for one at the junkyards for whenever that "next time" does happen.

 

[ToyoLex]

I would also suggest starter contacts. Very easy fix and also a good start.