No frills complete 3" Max articulation KDSS lift. Need seasoned opinions.

[Mutant138]

Still mulling over different ways to approach these vehicle modifications given how quickly the costs multiply.

This weekend I was considering what a mid level but complete build would look like.

I have KDSS TRD OR so, my idea is to maximise suspension travel, and retain factory on road characteristics. I live in arizona and the rocks are pretty serious so a 3" lift is a must IMO.

OME 2010+ 4Runner Light Load Suspension Kit - 2.5-3" Lift

Metal Tech 4x4 FJ Cruiser/4Runner Rear Link Bundle (upper & lower links)

High Articulation KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar 2010+ 4Runner with KDSS

JBA STD High Caster Upper A-arms for Toyota Tacoma "05" Plus, 4Runner "03" Plus, FJ Cruisers "07" Plus

What are your thoughts on this setup? What would you change or add? Am I missing anything? Do the OME provide additional down travel like other setups?

I have a bad back. Although I plan on adding weight I hear the OME can be very stiff until you get that weight on? Maybe choose their struts with superflex coils?

I chose OME because it's the only kit of it's kind to offer 3" of lift and cost. What would be the next runner up? Perhaps dobinsons or a bilstein setup (Taking the compromise for height)?

How necessary are the upper and lower links when you don't have LT? Would I be dropping 600+ for little to no gain?

 

[comtn4x4]

The Sonoran Steel panhard bar needs their special extended travel rear Radflo shocks to take advantage of all the additional up travel/down travel the bar would provide for a KDSS setup. Also extended travel front shocks from Radflo and some other brands would give you a better "full travel" setup if that's what you're looking for. If you're not going to upgarde to the Radflo rear shocks you could potentially hold off on the Sonoran Steel panhard bar although it's not much money and install is easy/cheap if you're paying for it.

I've been reading along as you've been playing through all the suspension options and trying to make a tight budget work. I think trying to stay at the lower end of the suspension spectrum will eventually hold you back. The OME kit is a good kit but I think you'll be happier if you step up a level into a ToyTec kit or even a bit more with a non-resevior Radflo setup. I ran OME on my Taco and it was a very stiff ride. I had Toytec at the beginning on my 4Runner and it was improved, however, when I went to Radflo it was the "aha" moment for me. I'm sure if I had gone King I would have really been amazed but I couldn't swing the extra cost.Maybe someday.

FWIW I have a Sonoran Steel panhard bar on order and will be installing it in a few weeks. I can't swing the extended travel Radflos right now as I just re worked my suspension in December. I'm not sure if I will regret that but I'd be happy to report back.

Edit: I'd contact Sonoran Steel as I seem to remember the lower links aren't necessary with their panhard bar but I'm not sure. For sure two panhard bars would be redundant

Good luck!

 

[srsrogerissrs]

Dobinsons have "longer travel" strut/shock options. Their longer travel front strut perch sits higher which nets a one inch lift on top of whichever spring you choose. You could run a 2" lift spring and net 3" total. These would probably get you the "longest travel" for a cost close (or better) than the OMEs.

 

[nb rob]

there's a common misconception about reservoir shocks only being useful for handling heat, or whatever else I've read on here from time to time.

really though, the reservoir makes a lot of sense when you're maximising travel. There is an internal floating piston that keeps the oil and the nitrogen separate. This is actually 2" thick on some models of shocks. When this is relocated to a reservoir, the stroke length on the same-sized shock body increases by quite a bit.

Additionally, when you DO have a longer stroke length, there's a good chance that the shock shafts will increase in diameter. If you ever have shocks apart, you will realise that the displacement of oil at maximum compression is significant with a 7/8" shaft. Having the IFP and nitrogen in the reservoir allows the shock to maximize the stroke length, and allows for the proper volume of oil and nitrogen, divided by the IFP, and displaced from the shock body entirely.

If you compare compressed/extended lengths of shocks with reservoirs and shocks without, you'll see a difference. sometimes as much as 2" of difference in available travel.

So before I'd replace rear links, I'd definitely consider shocks with remote reservoirs. Your links aren't going to limit you without them.

One more note about rear links--- the OEM uppers are thin, and designed to flex and rotate about the length axis quite a bit. I would consider leaving them as-is. Geometry-wise, adjustable uppers are not going to afford much difference, but will be much more rigid. The spherical bearing on the axle-end will take up much of this, but the sleeved bushing at the frame end will be more rigid than the big soft OEM one

 

[SpeedyKevin]

Dobinsons have "longer travel" strut/shock options. Their longer travel front strut perch sits higher which nets a one inch lift on top of whichever spring you choose. You could run a 2" lift spring and net 3" total. These would probably get you the "longest travel" for a cost close (or better) than the OMEs.

Dobinsons Pair of Long Travel Front Struts for Toyota FJ Cruiser 2010+ and 4Runner 2010-2019 - Dobinsons Direct

What hes talking about ^

Also, I believe the long travel shock doesn't work for KDSS rears as Dobinsons says it will over extend the system.

 

[comtn4x4]

Dobinsons Pair of Long Travel Front Struts for Toyota FJ Cruiser 2010+ and 4Runner 2010-2019 - Dobinsons Direct

What hes talking about ^

Also, I believe the long travel shock doesn't work for KDSS rears as Dobinsons says it will over extend the system.

As far as the KDSS system being overextended, I'm not sure if that's true or not. Mike at Dobinson's seems to think so but I'm not sure what it's based on. Steve at Sonoran Steel who developed the extended travel panhard bar specifically for KDSS seems to think otherwise. I searched it extensively recently and can't find any information definitively one way or the other. Steve seems to have done the most definitive research, however there isn't much long term testing.

To @nb_rob point the Radflo extended travel shocks for Sonoran Steels panhard setup are a reservoir setup to accommodate the longer shaft.

Additionally even though Dobinson's website says some of their variable rate coils aren't compatible with KDSS Mike felt ok with me running them as my lift wouldn't be too high.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

As far as the KDSS system being overextended, I'm not sure if that's true or not. Mike at Dobinson's seems to think so but I'm not sure what it's based on. Steve at Sonoran Steel who developed the extended travel panhard bar specifically for KDSS seems to think otherwise. I searched it extensively recently and can't find any information definitively one way or the other. Steve seems to have done the most definitive research, however there isn't much long term testing.

To @nb_rob point the Radflo extended travel shocks for Sonoran Steels panhard setup are a reservoir setup to accommodate the longer shaft.

Additionally even though Dobinson's website says some of their variable rate coils aren't compatible with KDSS Mike felt ok with me running them as my lift wouldn't be too high.

I was thinking that too as KING also has an Extended travel shock for KDSS. Would love to get me a Radflo set up one day!

All in all, for the OP id recommend messaging Mike about what youd like in your suspension and he can help you with the options.

 

[Ballsidaho]

I have been doing my suspension research alongside you and see you pop up in the threads to ask a lot of the questions I have before I have to.

First I thought OME was perfect. Great price, great rep, but the reports of harsh ride scared me off. Also their policy that you don't need UCAs with their 3 inch lift was always questionable to me.

Then I thought Dobinson was the answer. They had a so many more options (too many actually) and a lot of options for a softer more comfortable ride. At this point I started to realize I probably didn't need a full 3 inches for my purposes which would also save me money on needing UCA's.
I did start to worry (well founded or not) about the powder coating chipping and rusting.

Then we both seemed set, and I still am, on the Eibach kit. Soft ride, probably don't need UCA's, and less worry about rusting.

We seem to have the same budgetary concerns and balancing "buy once cry once" with adding to the build and kicking it down the road another year without doing anything. Ideally an adjustable coiilover would let you save your back and be able to change over when needed but the price for that is never being able to afford to lift.

I know you have more extreme needs where you live so the full 3 inches is a priority. So if the Eibach is out for you because its too short, I would say the comfort ride Dobinsons 3" setup and UCA's and call it a day.

Dobinson has so many options that if you are doing the work yourself and don't have to worry about the labor costs, you can get the soft setup now and if you are adding weight down the road and your butt is sagging then just change out those springs when you have to.

Now I just need to pay off cracked windshield replacement #1 (happened on 1 year anniversary for the 4runner) and then I can get back to saving for my Eibach kit.

 

[nb rob]

as far as the king shocks are concerned,
the "extended travel" shocks have a small spacer absent on the piston end of the shaft. I think it's about 3/8" thick, and can be removed from the regular travel shocks when they are rebuilt (or before they are rebuilt--- it's a quick process if you're prepared.)

read: don't pay extra for extended travel king shocks or coilovers, and don't let a salesman tell you otherwise. Some places like filthy motorsports may remove this spacer for you if they do not have extended travel in stock.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

as far as the king shocks are concerned,
the "extended travel" shocks have a small spacer absent on the piston end of the shaft. I think it's about 3/8" thick, and can be removed from the regular travel shocks when they are rebuilt (or before they are rebuilt--- it's a quick process if you're prepared.)

read: don't pay extra for extended travel king shocks or coilovers, and don't let a salesman tell you otherwise. Some places like filthy motorsports may remove this spacer for you if they do not have extended travel in stock.

Solid information!

 

[mteolus]

I have the ToyTech Boss 3" lift. The extended length shocks on the Boss are made by Radflow. I have the Sonoran Steel TracBar. I have SPC UCAs. Everything works great. Make sure if you install the TracBar yourself, have a good lift for your rear diff and good jackstands.

 

[comtn4x4]

I have the ToyTech Boss 3" lift. The extended length shocks on the Boss are made by Radflow. I have the Sonoran Steel TracBar. I have SPC UCAs. Everything works great. Make sure if you install the TracBar yourself, have a good lift for your rear diff and good jackstands.

Did you get the extended travel rear shocks from Sonoran Steel? As far as I am aware the extended travel rear shocks to pair with the Sonoran Steel bar are only available from them. And the regular Boss/Radflo shocks are only extended travel in the front according to Toytec and Radflo

 

[Mutant138]

Going to lump my responses into one.

It really does seem like there is no way around it. Dobison LT may or may not work. I don't really have the money to play around with setups. Perhaps [MENTION=148378]Dobinsons Mike[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1795]sschaefer3[/MENTION] can chime in here about dobinsons LT overextending the KDSS cylinders or not.

It really is looking pretty black and white for me. My finances are either about to improve greatly or stay the same (I can't gamble on it either way).

If it stays the same then I will have to look into figuring out a 3" dobinsons setup (avoiding ome harshness) with LT up front. Or the Eibach if I can live with 1" of rear lift.

If the finances improve however, I will take a serious look at the sonoran steel full Radflo w/Resi kit. [MENTION=1795]sschaefer3[/MENTION] I noticed the full kit comes with Radflow Custom Wound 2" Lift Rear Coils. Can these custom rear shocks be ran with a 3" spring instead? Or does that compromise the ride?

I don't need to be sold on the benefits of a proper set of coilovers I've ran them on track cars. It's just the money. I think my back would appreciate the added expense.

Either way I'll prob hold off on the upper links.

Anyone running the Full Sonoran KDSS kit in the wild? Would love some feedback.

:juggle:

 

[sschaefer3]

Anyone running the Full Sonoran KDSS kit in the wild? Would love some feedback.:juggle:

There are many on Instagram.

 

[rochmpr]

LT rear and KDSS are NOT COMPLIANT. I don't care what gimick you buy / bolt-on, etc., it just won't work. The KDSS piston & hard link are the limiting factors. There is only so much down travel in the piston, and a 3" lift burns 3" of down travel of the piston. The other issue was the swing of the sway bar and piston making contact with the panhard bar, which the Sonoran Steel bar looks to address, but this still does not net much addition. The only way to get full travel is removal. So one needs to make a decision on what they are willing to sacrifice or deal with.

I opted for removal of the KDSS sway bars for the added travel and just deal with the added body roll. Since it's not a hot rod for street racing, I can deal with the roll.

The question is is what are you willing to live with or sacrifice?

 

[sschaefer3]

As far as the KDSS system being overextended, I'm not sure if that's true or not. Mike at Dobinson's seems to think so but I'm not sure what it's based on. Steve at Sonoran Steel who developed the extended travel panhard bar specifically for KDSS seems to think otherwise. I searched it extensively recently and can't find any information definitively one way or the other. Steve seems to have done the most definitive research, however there isn't much long term testing.

The problem with most of these companies, ok all of these companies is that they do not own a fleet of vehicles. They don't. So unless you actually own a 5th gen 4Runner with KDSS and spend a week with it up on jack stands. Your really not going to know anything.

If Dobbins is made in Austraila, an american dealer is not going to know anything unless they buy or borrow the exact vehicle and play with it for a good week. That just does not happen.

I know the back story on the Icon bar. It involves Desert Rat, Metal Tech, a Pharmacist and the Telephone. There was never a KDSS 4Runner at Icon during that "development".

 

[comtn4x4]

The problem with most of these companies, ok all of these companies is that they do not own a fleet of vehicles. They don't. So unless you actually own a 5th gen 4Runner with KDSS and spend a week with it up on jack stands. Your really not going to know anything.

If Dobbins is made in Austraila, an american dealer is not going to know anything unless they buy or borrow the exact vehicle and play with it for a good week. That just does not happen.

I know the back story on the Icon bar. It involves Desert Rat, Metal Tech, a Pharmacist and the Telephone. There was never a KDSS 4Runner at Icon during that "development".

I agree generally with what your saying. Sonoran Steel does have a 5th gen with KDSS that they experimented on so they have some idea. And Dobinson's has extensive experience with Land Cruisers with KDSS in Australia. So who knows? Both are right? Neither? Somewhere in the middle possibly.

EDIT: And Dobinson's USA has a 5th gen but without KDSS

 

[sschaefer3]

I was thinking that too as KING also has an Extended travel shock for KDSS.

Well until someone develops a better set of bushings with added movement for the front KDSS bar all extended travel does is split them (factory ones), especially the 2018+ ones with the sweeps.

I would develop this with strong flex but I am not willing to make the investment at this time as there is so much confusion on these forums, I fear people will not understand what they do and why you would need them.

Because people are just not out beating the crap out of brand new 40 grand trucks. Its true. I would not either.

 

[sschaefer3]

EDIT: And Dobinson's USA has a 5th gen but without KDSS

Which does them absolutely no good. For this topic. I will not tell people these KDSS bars work for the GX470 because who knows. I would never assume the 2 vehicles are the same.

I have to go. I am not going to get to your bar the way it is until next week. I gotta get back to work.

 

[Jetboy]

A 3 inch lift is really hard to make ride well on the highway. You're basically starting on it's tippy-toes. So you have very limited down travel and the ride will suffer. I would reconsider the need for the full 3" lift front and rear. Especially if you want a good ride on a moderate budget.

I think the best value lift is probably the 6112/5160 combo and set the front at the highest height. Then add a rear KDSS specific 2" spring from Dobinsons. I don't think the money would be well spent on the rear links while retaining KDSS. The Sonoran Steel bar is a neat idea and it does allow a lot more droop. I don't think it allows any extra articulation because KDSS will limit articulation at some point. So.. if you're jumping it or going fast in the whoops, it's a great idea. If you're going slow in the rocks - I don't know that it would offer any measurable benefit. Especially if it's not paired with some long travel shocks.