No frills complete 3" Max articulation KDSS lift. Need seasoned opinions.

[Crikeymike]

I agree generally with what your saying. Sonoran Steel does have a 5th gen with KDSS that they experimented on so they have some idea. And Dobinson's has extensive experience with Land Cruisers with KDSS in Australia. So who knows? Both are right? Neither? Somewhere in the middle possibly.

EDIT: And Dobinson's USA has a 5th gen but without KDSS

That's not correct, David (the owner here) sold his non-KDSS model about 18 months ago. I own a 2014 Trail with KDSS with 3" front and 2" rear lift.

Long travel parts rear were developed and all test fitted here in Miami with David's old 2016 non-KDSS and the parts were never intended to be used on a KDSS model as they weren't tested and gone thru all the paces simply because they can't be used on it. This was known from prior knowledge about older KDSS systems already. Just what was written earlier, the KDSS system is limited because you can't add extended links to it like a regular sway bar setup.

The more lift that is added, the more the fixed mount side of the sway bar holds down that side of the vehicle (passenger side, right side). It's the same with a regular sway bar - the more you lift it, you should change to longer sway bar links to put it back in the correct operating position, or as close to it as possible. And if you don't extend the links, the sway bar will limit the wheel travel anyway when it gets as extended as it can.

OP, just go with a 3" front lift and 2" or 2.5" in the rear, and buy whatever fits your budget.

 

[Thundercloud1985]

OP, just go with a 3" front lift and 2" or 2.5" in the rear, and buy whatever fits your budget.

That's solid advise there.

 

[sschaefer3]

Especially if it's not paired with some long travel shocks.

The bar is paired with long travel custom made Radflo shocks.

Custom Radflo KDSS Shocks (2) & KDSS Trac/PanHard Bar (1) 2010+ - $1,260.00 : Sonoran Steel Fabrication LLC, Toyota Truck Parts

 

[sschaefer3]

That's solid advise there.

Very true. Bling and Extra Travel = $$$$

No way around that.

 

[Mutant138]

LT rear and KDSS are NOT COMPLIANT. I don't care what gimick you buy / bolt-on, etc., it just won't work. The KDSS piston & hard link are the limiting factors. There is only so much down travel in the piston, and a 3" lift burns 3" of down travel of the piston. The other issue was the swing of the sway bar and piston making contact with the panhard bar, which the Sonoran Steel bar looks to address, but this still does not net much addition. The only way to get full travel is removal. So one needs to make a decision on what they are willing to sacrifice or deal with.

I opted for removal of the KDSS sway bars for the added travel and just deal with the added body roll. Since it's not a hot rod for street racing, I can deal with the roll.

The question is is what are you willing to live with or sacrifice?

100% get what you are saying. Not disagreeing. Just looking to maximize KDSS articulation and mitigate the massive wheel lifts if at all possible. Just want as much stability as possible (who doesn't want the flex?).

Sonoran worked with radflo it's not just the panhard bar. "The rear shocks are custom made by Radlo just for us and are designed to retain the stock compressed length/upward travel. So no up travel is lost. What they have done is add additional droop to allow the hydraulic plunger to drop an additional 1" downward. This leaves an additional 3/8" plunger travel still, so no damage will occur to the unit. These shocks WILL NOT pull your plunger out too far. They utilize the maximum up travel provided by Toyota and the extra down travel provided by our custom Trac/PanHard bar for the ultimate KDSS articulation."

Trail/TRD Off Road KDSS Full Articulation Kit - Resivoir Front - $3,003.00 : Sonoran Steel Fabrication LLC, Toyota Truck Parts

So not definitely not long travel but not a gimmick either. It's just how much that added articulation is worth?

I would love to remove my KDSS and go balls out with LT but, I don't see any solution surfacing for body roll. Rumors of people running anti rock but I've yet to see it.

It's all fun and games to say it's fine to deal with extreme body roll because it's, "not a race car". I have had children, other vehicles, and animals challenge that statement. So i would have to disagree that it's just a matter of "dealing with it". It's a safety issue on the road and this truck is my daily.

I appreciate you paving the way tho. Someone gotta do it. I know I will likely do it one day just waiting till people iron out the deets.

A 3 inch lift is really hard to make ride well on the highway. You're basically starting on it's tippy-toes. So you have very limited down travel and the ride will suffer. I would reconsider the need for the full 3" lift front and rear. Especially if you want a good ride on a moderate budget.

I think the best value lift is probably the 6112/5160 combo and set the front at the highest height. Then add a rear KDSS specific 2" spring from Dobinsons. I don't think the money would be well spent on the rear links while retaining KDSS. The Sonoran Steel bar is a neat idea and it does allow a lot more droop. I don't think it allows any extra articulation because KDSS will limit articulation at some point. So.. if you're jumping it or going fast in the whoops, it's a great idea. If you're going slow in the rocks - I don't know that it would offer any measurable benefit. Especially if it's not paired with some long travel shocks.

See that's what I wondered too. I thought 3" was kind of maxing everything out. Makes a lot more sense no that mostly kits are 2.5 - 2" of lift. I will definitely reconsider as I'm getting a bit fixed on that number when I'm going to get steel skids anyways.

61112/5160 was my first choice before I got fixated on 3" in the rear.

My driving is a bit mixed. I want to be on more technical trails but my lack of armor prevents. Judging by what I like it will remain mixed. My back does tend to flair up after an hour of good paced driving on desert tracks with the stock suspension and aired down to about 20psi +/-.

Definitely going to ignore the upper links. May end up swapping the lowers just to get something that's a bit stronger. I already had a nasty rock strike on one of the mounts and I hear the OEM links will bend.

The more lift that is added, the more the fixed mount side of the sway bar holds down that side of the vehicle (passenger side, right side). It's the same with a regular sway bar - the more you lift it, you should change to longer sway bar links to put it back in the correct operating position, or as close to it as possible. And if you don't extend the links, the sway bar will limit the wheel travel anyway when it gets as extended as it can.

OP, just go with a 3" front lift and 2" or 2.5" in the rear, and buy whatever fits your budget.

Ahhh. I forget that non kdss guys extend their end links. Makes the whole not going 3" in the rear thing make a lot more sense.

So, really lifting KDSS is really a question of how high do you wan't to go vs how down travel you are willing to sacrifice?

 

[The Waco Kid]

Lawndart used an anti-rock rear when he was still running around these parts. You can check out his build thread for that.

And to add to your comment, I'm running 6112 and Icon 2.0 rears (5160s were backordered for over 6 months when I installed in 2016). Its a solid choice and I feel the front suspension is even better than before the lift. The rear is good when I have weight in the rear, but otherwise its rough. I attribute that to my spring choice mostly (Wheelers T-12). If Dobinsons had been more active or more well known in the 5th gen arena back then, I probably would have used their rear spring instead.

That said, I'll be adding to my piggy bank for the Sonoran Steel rear setup after I replace my Prinsu rack for frontrunner. I have more concerns about securing my load than I do about supporting the weight of it at the moment.

 

[rochmpr]

100% get what you are saying. Not disagreeing. Just looking to maximize KDSS articulation and mitigate the massive wheel lifts if at all possible. Just want as much stability as possible (who doesn't want the flex?).

Sonoran worked with radflo it's not just the panhard bar. "The rear shocks are custom made by Radlo just for us and are designed to retain the stock compressed length/upward travel. So no up travel is lost. What they have done is add additional droop to allow the hydraulic plunger to drop an additional 1" downward. This leaves an additional 3/8" plunger travel still, so no damage will occur to the unit. These shocks WILL NOT pull your plunger out too far. They utilize the maximum up travel provided by Toyota and the extra down travel provided by our custom Trac/PanHard bar for the ultimate KDSS articulation."

Trail/TRD Off Road KDSS Full Articulation Kit - Resivoir Front - $3,003.00 : Sonoran Steel Fabrication LLC, Toyota Truck Parts

So not definitely not long travel but not a gimmick either. It's just how much that added articulation is worth?

I would love to remove my KDSS and go balls out with LT but, I don't see any solution surfacing for body roll. Rumors of people running anti rock but I've yet to see it.

It's all fun and games to say it's fine to deal with extreme body roll because it's, "not a race car". I have had children, other vehicles, and animals challenge that statement. So i would have to disagree that it's just a matter of "dealing with it". It's a safety issue on the road and this truck is my daily.

I appreciate you paving the way tho. Someone gotta do it. I know I will likely do it one day just waiting till people iron out the deets.




See that's what I wondered too. I thought 3" was kind of maxing everything out. Makes a lot more sense no that mostly kits are 2.5 - 2" of lift. I will definitely reconsider as I'm getting a bit fixed on that number when I'm going to get steel skids anyways.

61112/5160 was my first choice before I got fixated on 3" in the rear.

My driving is a bit mixed. I want to be on more technical trails but my lack of armor prevents. Judging by what I like it will remain mixed. My back does tend to flair up after an hour of good paced driving on desert tracks with the stock suspension and aired down to about 20psi +/-.

Definitely going to ignore the upper links. May end up swapping the lowers just to get something that's a bit stronger. I already had a nasty rock strike on one of the mounts and I hear the OEM links will bend.



Ahhh. I forget that non kdss guys extend their end links. Makes the whole not going 3" in the rear thing make a lot more sense.

So, really any added lift is going to mess with down travel on KDSS trucks (because we can't swap endlinks). Lifting KDSS is really a question of how high do you wan't to go vs how down travel you are willing to sacrifice?

[MENTION=96425]JSparky[/MENTION] has put the Anti-Rock kit in the rear of his 4Runner and [MENTION=124732]LawnDart[/MENTION] was the first to put one in. There may be a few others, so it is doable.

 

[Mutant138]

Lawndart used an anti-rock rear when he was still running around these parts. You can check out his build thread for that.

And to add to your comment, I'm running 6112 and Icon 2.0 rears (5160s were backordered for over 6 months when I installed in 2016). Its a solid choice and I feel the front suspension is even better than before the lift. The rear is good when I have weight in the rear, but otherwise its rough. I attribute that to my spring choice mostly (Wheelers T-12). If Dobinsons had been more active or more well known in the 5th gen arena back then, I probably would have used their rear spring instead.

That said, I'll be adding to my piggy bank for the Sonoran Steel rear setup after I replace my Prinsu rack for frontrunner. I have more concerns about securing my load than I do about supporting the weight of it at the moment.

Oh true forgot about lawn darts build.

Yeah the rear setup really seems like a good little setup. Alot of green tho. Part of me thinks I should settle for something on the lower spectrum. Sort out the rest of the truck and gear. Then go all out with suspension after the dust settles and I have everything generally the way I want it.

Mood point at the moment because I need to hang tight and see which way the financial pendulum swings for me. Just trying to flesh everything out ahead of time so when the time comes I can order with confidence.

 

[Mutant138]

[MENTION=96425]JSparky[/MENTION] has put the Anti-Rock kit in the rear of his 4Runner and [MENTION=124732]LawnDart[/MENTION] was the first to put one in. There may be a few others, so it is doable.

Well shuck my corn and call me sally. Even more to think about.

 

[mscot]

Why are you looking for a 3"lift?
You can get 33" tires in the truck with only a 2" lift, new UCAs, and a lot of plastic removal. You don't even need a BMC on most cases.
If you're trying to stuff 35s under there it may be a different story, I don't know, but for 33s you're fine.

Adding an additional .5" to 1" of suspension doesn't actually give you more ground clearance. Its about the size of tire.

As for the Sonoran steel system, the only thing I don't like about it is that the Radflo shocks aren't adjustable like the Kings with DSC. After having my set up, I know the next time I empty my wallet for suspension its going to have adjustable compression

 

[sschaefer3]

As for the Sonoran steel system, the only thing I don't like about it is that the Radflo shocks aren't adjustable like the Kings with DSC. After having my set up, I know the next time I empty my wallet for suspension its going to have adjustable compression

The custom Radflos can be ordered with compression adjusters. Not a problem, just more $$$

 

[Thundercloud1985]

As for the Sonoran steel system, the only thing I don't like about it is that the Radflo shocks aren't adjustable like the Kings with DSC. After having my set up, I know the next time I empty my wallet for suspension its going to have adjustable compression

Not true. Radflo has adjustable compression on the reservoirs. Its of course optional.

 

[Mutant138]

Why are you looking for a 3"lift?

 

[mscot]

Ok cowboy

 

[SpeedyKevin]

I thought it was a valid question! If rocks are of concern, lifting 3 inches vs 2 inches wont help much on the rears/diff unless you change out tire size. It can help with departure/approach angles.

If you're aiming for 33s, it can be done with a 2" lift but if you are eyeing those super awesome 35s or 34s, it can be done with a 2.5" with a bit of chopping here and there.