No new 6th gen 4runner? All electric by 2030

Delstele, it's interesting you chose the Keystone pipeline. Tar sands bitumen, the most polluting source of oil in the world is partly recovered by strip mining and shipped to US refineries. 55,000 square miles of Canadian boreal forest are impacted.

Canada’s tar sands are among the most climate-polluting sources of oil. (Environmental Defense Group Canada)

Approximately two tons of tar sands are excavated after strip mining two tons of overburden (boreal foreest, soil, sand, clay and rock) to yield one barrel of oil. (ienearth.org)

Oil sands production requires an enormous amount of water (4 barrels of water for each barrel of oil). Further, the toxic tailings ponds — where the contaminated water leftover from pre-processing the bitumen is stored — pose disturbing health and environmental risks. Cancer-causing pollutants contained in this sludge migrate through the groundwater system and leak into the surrounding soil and surface water. (ourworld.unu.edu)

Currently, tailings ponds occupy a fair amount of space in Alberta—covering around 77 square kilometers. Including all tailings ponds structures along with the ponds themselves, the total covered area is 220 square kilometers—an area about 1.5 times larger than the city of Vancouver. (Energy Education, Canada)

The 120-odd active tar sands projects are owned by major oil companies from Canada and around the world, including the U.S. and China. Together, the companies pump out 2.6 million barrels every day, virtually all of which is shipped to U.S. refineries. (National Geographic 2019 ... production is now over 3M barrels per day)
 
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The three phases of the Keystone Pipeline already exist and are operational, sending about 600,000 barrels of crude daily from Alberta to refineries in Illinois and Texas. The disputed proposed Phase IV (Keystone XL) would have put in a bigger pipe and a shorter route to deliver an additional 500,000 barrels per day.
 
The three phases of the Keystone Pipeline already exist and are operational, sending about 600,000 barrels of crude daily from Alberta to refineries in Illinois and Texas. The disputed proposed Phase IV (Keystone XL) would have put in a bigger pipe and a shorter route to deliver an additional 500,000 barrels per day.

Thanks for posting this ... I edited my post to be consistent with your post ... It appears tar sands oil is transported by pipeline and rail. in 2021, Bloomberg published an article: Keystone XL’s Death Sparks Rush to Ship Oil-Sands by Rail
 
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Do jeep dudes sit around and complain that their 2022 jeep looks just like a 2007 jeep? I have owned a 2002 4Runner, a 2008 4Runner, a 2017 4Runner, and now a 2022 4Runner. I hope Toyota never changes the 4runner from the 5th gen. I love the way it looks. Maybe give me automatic headlights...


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I find all of this environmental debating funny on a forum of people that drive some of the most non fuel efficient vehicles on the road.
 
Do jeep dudes sit around and complain that their 2022 jeep looks just like a 2007 jeep? I have owned a 2002 4Runner, a 2008 4Runner, a 2017 4Runner, and now a 2022 4Runner. I hope Toyota never changes the 4runner from the 5th gen. I love the way it looks. Maybe give me automatic headlights...


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Limiteds have them


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My thoughts on the subject..


Exactly! And where will all the added electricity come from? California already goes through rolling blackouts in summer. Imagine what will happen when millions of electric vehicles get plugged in every night. The cost of your electricity will be more than your cheap fossil fuels.


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Exactly! And where will all the added electricity come from? California already goes through rolling blackouts in summer. Imagine what will happen when millions of electric vehicles get plugged in every night. The cost of your electricity will be more than your cheap fossil fuels.


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If only someone could figure out how to monetize the generation and distribution of guaranteed electricity demand so they decide to build more! That would certainly have a lot of utility for many of us! Oh well, if only.

FYI electricity (let's say $0.12/kWh) is already more expensive per unit of energy than gasoline (let's say $0.10). But EVs are 300% more efficient. And gas pumps require electricity to run, and frequently run out any time there's a hurricane or snow storm or just panicked dipshits. So... yea.
 
Exactly! And where will all the added electricity come from? California already goes through rolling blackouts in summer. Imagine what will happen when millions of electric vehicles get plugged in every night. The cost of your electricity will be more than your cheap fossil fuels.


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Do you think we still use the same amount of electricity we used in 1920 or even 2005? The grid has been upgraded and expanded multiple times in the past to accommodate the public’s need. It just takes time.

No system is perfect though and companies will always find a way to bleed money from you. You’re going to pay one way or another. Just look at all the people who “cut the cord” from cable and end up spending more on streaming services every month. But I know I’d rather breathe the air in Noway than India :thumb3:
 
We will see a second “peak hours” rate at night when enough EV’s start being plugged in.


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Additionally, Federal and State gasoline taxes are a cash cow for Govco. As the fleet transitions to electric, they won't give up those tax dollars. Those taxes will appear on our electric bills.
 
Additionally, Federal and State gasoline taxes are a cash cow for Govco. As the fleet transitions to electric, they won't give up those tax dollars. Those taxes will appear on our electric bills.

Or, as is the current fashion, instituting "mileage" taxes.
 
If you were planning on buy a new SUV in the next year, would you stick with an ICE, or go traditional Hybrid, or PHEV?
I plan on keeping the vehicle for 8+ years.
I am very interested in hearing what someone in the field thinks. I have to admit that driving a car that gets 15mpg weighs on my conscious a bit (as well as my wallet, right now).

That is a difficult question with a lot of user dependent variables.

I just bought a '21 Nightshade in January, so that is what I would do. I average 20 mpg over the last 15k miles, so it's really not bad for the size/weight/capability of the vehicle.

My next purchase in 8+ years will be an EV SUV with solid state batteries.

All forms of Hybrid are off of my list because they include all of the same complex systems as a standard ICE in addition to batteries, motors, inverters, controllers, etc.

These decisions are based on prioritizing reliability above all else. There are plenty of Priuses with 200k+ miles and still running.
 

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