No transmission dipstick?

yes I do this professionally and cause its fun and good money.....and the Toyota guy is kind of right.....its not that you shouldn't do it after 90k.....its if you have never done it and then do it a 90 k depending on the condition you can create problems. If you check your fluid and you have debris floating in it. this is your clutch material and when you flush it out....you know longer have it and your transmission has nothing left to grab with. this service should be done every 30k .

It appears that you know very little about how an automatic transmission really works. If you have debris floating in your fluid, it might be clutch material. It also could be bushing material. In either case, this indicates a serious problem within the transmission. The lack of this clutch material in the fluid will NOT cause the transmission fluid to slip or not 'grab'. The clutch material is supposed to be adhered to the clutch friction plates, and in a properly operating transmission, this material should NEVER detach from the plates. If it does, usually caused by low fluid operation, or damaged/worn internal clutch pack lip seals, the only way to repair it is to rebuild the transmission and install new friction plates. If the transmission is slipping, or not 'grabbing', it is usually caused by low fluid level, low fluid pressure levels, and/or work clutch friction plates. The trans fluid does not provide a 'friction' function within the automatic trans. It serves three main purposes, provide a medium for applying hydrolic pressure, lubrication, and cooling.
 
"A fluid exchange and a flush are the same..."


Ah, no...a 'flush' came be a complete fluid replacement as you stated, but many know, especially in the aftermarket, that a 'flush' can involved introducing a 'solvent' of some kind to clean out the debris and gunk. A 'flush' can also involve either negative (suction) or positive pressure to 'flush' out 'garbage'. Or it can have both. Both of which can cause damage as some claim...Honda states a flat out 'no' to both types...which you can take with a grain of salt.

'Flush' is too generic of a term...
 
re

I never said the fluid grabs ......the friction material grabs ....but if it is floating in the fluid for whatever the reason and you flush the fluid out ....you no longer have cluth material in the trans and if you think this won't effect the shifting you are mistaken....and if you think the clutch material doesn't wear out and fall into the fluid then you are mistaken again....thats why people get paid to rebuild trans and put new clutches in the packs........and for the flush guy.....yes there is a solvent ...but even when you do a fluid exchange on the trans .you use a cleaner.....the cleaner en capsules the dirt and comes out during the exchange..I'm not talking about the BS flushes you buy at the auto part store....At the shop when you say flush or fluid exchange you are talking about the same. both are done with a complete exchange of the fluid. ...I never said I know a whole lot about the transmission itself which is why I don't work at a transmission specialty shop but I have re-built a few. And yes for the drain n fill guy...if you do it often you would be alright.....but the general public do not maintain their cars very well....most of them fix them when broken.
 
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When I took my truck in a couple months ago for an oil change, I had them do the transmission service. I wanted to make sure they were doing a drain and fill and not a flush. Practically before I finished asking the service writer, he said "We don't do flushes here." I said, "It causes damage, right?" He said " Oh yeah, many problems can come from that." That is right on par from everything I have read regarding this topic, and that's a Toyota dealer.
 
When I took my truck in a couple months ago for an oil change, I had them do the transmission service. I wanted to make sure they were doing a drain and fill and not a flush. Practically before I finished asking the service writer, he said "We don't do flushes here." I said, "It causes damage, right?" He said " Oh yeah, many problems can come from that." That is right on par from everything I have read regarding this topic, and that's a Toyota dealer.

You know alot of people on here seem to think the word at the dealership is gospel.....not really true....also there are tons of dealerships who do fluid exchanges and when someone does a trans drain n fill....its usually because they are to lazy to hook up the machine.
 
You know alot of people on here seem to think the word at the dealership is gospel.....not really true....also there are tons of dealerships who do fluid exchanges and when someone does a trans drain n fill....its usually because they are to lazy to hook up the machine.

I don't take the dealer's word as gospel, but I do trust that dealer in particular. It does come up as a red flag to me when they don't preform a costly service. I was charged $80 for the drain and fill, I'm sure a flush would have been a couple hundred.
 
Toyota and our ATF Fluid Flush machine manufacturer MOC both specify to not machine flush WS ATF "Sealed" transmissions, an inline fluid exchange is okay for T-IV ATF "non-sealed" transmissions (that have been serviced regularly) and is done regularly at dealerships in lieu of drain and fill (or should be, but sometimes guys get lazy.) That's your "Gospel," both the vehicle manufacturer and the manufacturer of the tool both tell you how and what applications to flush the transmissions with a machine.

As was pointed out there are many different types of machines out there that do ATF flushing, some with solvents, others with reverse flow, ect ect; the most common is really a "fluid exchanger" that is hooked up via the cooler lines inline with the flow of the transmission fluid. It was brought up that some members don't understand why the fluid flushing can damage a transmission so allow me to expand on this.

To properly explain this lets go over a rough idea of how an automatic transmission works and the jobs ATF has in that application. First off, inside your automatic transmission is a combination of planetary gearsets, bands, clutch packs, and hydraulic valves and solenoids all run by the automatic transmission fluid. At the most basic level of operation, the automatic transmission works off of friction, just like a manual clutch or brake system. All the wizardry inside is to make the clutch packs and bands turn the gearsets which power the wheels.

ATF is in my opinion the hardest working fluid in a vehicle, it has to manage multiple jobs all at once; it needs to be a;

-Hydraulic fluid (Actuating solenoids and valves, engaging clutch packs and bands, ect ect.)
-A friction modifier (enhancing the grip of the clutch materials)
-A coolant (all that friction generates a lot of heat)
-A lubricant (All those gears, valves, solenoids, and clutches need to be lubricated)
-A cleaning agent (The detergents and additives in the fluid help keep the automatic transmission clean inside and the flow of the fluid helps remove particles.)

As your transmission does its job those clutch packs wear away both the clutch material and metal discs they press against at an almost microscopic level, just like your brakes or clutch lose material in the form of dust. The ATF pulls all these itty bitty particles of debris away from the internal workings of the transmission and suspends it in the fluid and hopefully the larger particles will get picked up in the filter. Now lets fast forward say, 100,000miles in the life of the vehicle and that fluid has never been changed. All that dust and debris will form little piles all through out the system, mostly at sharp bends and areas where flow is disrupted. These piles over time become baked on for the most part don't often cause trouble (unless they restrict the fluid flow severely.)

Now Joe Shmo the hapless car owner gets talked into finally taking care of his car and he hocks up the cash for a fancy machine flush. Unfortunately for Joe Shmo, his negligence combined with the shock of brand new fluid with fresh detergents and additives and the machine's efficiency has popped loose those piles of debris like magic. Which is what we want right? Yes and no, we want all that crud out of the system... in itty bitty form, now we have these chunks of dust and metallic particles clogging up the system and/or getting munched up in the internal parts possibly causing it to wear even faster! The basic idea is, that the longer a transmission has gone without a fluid change, the more likely it is that flushing new fluid (machine or otherwise) will cause all that crap to become loose and now clog up the system like a fat man's heart on McDonalds.

One last thing to mention is that WS ATF is NOT "Lifetime Fluid," Toyota and other manufacturers have been pushing this line of BS for years. As we went over earlier, ATF is a seriously hard working fluid and those detergents, additives, and the integrity of the fluid DO Degrade over time. Refer to your owner's manual to see the little discrepencey in ATF maintenance. Toyota says under "severe" conditions that the fluid is to be changed at 60k and replaced every 30k afterwards. That being said under normal driving conditions I would say 90-100k is a good interval for WS Fluid from my experience. Its not "lifetime" but it is a long life ATF compared to say T-IV where we said 30k all day long.
 
Sorry guys, Its too funny how fast some posts just end as soon as a fart smeller, I mean a smart feller explains everything the correct way that everyone understands. We're all like little cockroaches when a light comes on, everyone scatters...lol
Thanks everyone for your help and just know Im kidding. :yo:

I know its time for mine to be changed on the 07 V8 4Runner regardless how its done, Im around 96k and its never been towed with.

Ive always just dropped the pan, changed /cleaned its filter/screen after draining & flushing about 4 times in my older Toys and never had a trans issue but its different now or so it seems?
I think I remember something about the sealed trannies must all be at a specified temp when checking/filling? True?
Can it just be checked/filled after its driven a 1/2 hr or so or is there an actual temp it should be?
Or if theres an approx temp can one use a hand held lazer temp gauge on the outside case and be close to it?
If so? Anyone know what the outside case approx temp is when the fluids at its correct temp? I know outside ambiant temps are involved too but any idea?
Again, how crucial is the temp range when fill/check on sealed trans, should we care?

Damn those sh!^heads at Toyota for keeping our dipsticks!!! :boxing: :hunter: ..lol
 
Sorry guys, Its too funny how fast some posts just end as soon as a fart smeller, I mean a smart feller explains everything the correct way that everyone understands. We're all like little cockroaches when a light comes on, everyone scatters...lol
Thanks everyone for your help and just know Im kidding. :yo:

I know its time for mine to be changed on the 07 V8 4Runner regardless how its done, Im around 96k and its never been towed with.

Ive always just dropped the pan, changed /cleaned its filter/screen after draining & flushing about 4 times in my older Toys and never had a trans issue but its different now or so it seems?
I think I remember something about the sealed trannies must all be at a specified temp when checking/filling? True?
Can it just be checked/filled after its driven a 1/2 hr or so or is there an actual temp it should be?
Or if theres an approx temp can one use a hand held lazer temp gauge on the outside case and be close to it?
If so? Anyone know what the outside case approx temp is when the fluids at its correct temp? I know outside ambiant temps are involved too but any idea?
Again, how crucial is the temp range when fill/check on sealed trans, should we care?

Damn those sh!^heads at Toyota for keeping our dipsticks!!! :boxing: :hunter: ..lol

Don't know any outside case temps, but you can get the trans temp from your 4th gen I believe using an ODB scanner and a reader tool on your phone. And yes you SHOULD watch the temps if you are doing anything other than a simple daily commute, the more time spent at high temps the faster it will likely break down.

On my '15 I monitor the t-case out temp which is the hottest of the two monitors as the fluid is leaving the tranny for the cooler. It normally runs between 180 and 200F on road, but offroading I've seen it get as high as 240 which is a tad high for long term I think and pulling a trailer would also probably put it up there. I'm strongly considering a cooler to keep the temps closer to 200 if possible.
 
I think I remember something about the sealed trannies must all be at a specified temp when checking/filling? True?
Can it just be checked/filled after its driven a 1/2 hr or so or is there an actual temp it should be?
Or if theres an approx temp can one use a hand held lazer temp gauge on the outside case and be close to it?
If so? Anyone know what the outside case approx temp is when the fluids at its correct temp? I know outside ambiant temps are involved too but any idea?
Again, how crucial is the temp range when fill/check on sealed trans, should we care?

Gun works great (see below) but if you drive and bring the engine coolant just up to temp and then let it idle 5min or so for good measure (while waiting you can run the shifter through gears) you'll be in the lower half of the correct temperature range (97-115 degrees).

If you want more detail, here ya go.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...r-ways-check-ws-transmission-fluid-level.html
 

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