Not A Good Start For The 335i

[Thai]

The little differences between all the cars, in this class, don't mean anything on the street.

P.S. I had fun last Friday spanking a 750i on my way home from work. It was so funny reading his mind; "How does a little Lexus run so good?" He was so upset he started getting really crazy trying to get past me. I had to cut him loose and let him go.

Koz

Let's stick to direct comparison between the two since you earlier stated that BMW was "scared" to compete directly with Lexus! Do you realize that your whole argument is now gone down the pipe with recent reviews and comparison of the BMW??!! It's OK to admit when you're wrong. Come on, i want to hear you say it....

And, apparently, ON THE STREETS, the BMW 335i will show it's taillights to you and outhandle you on the mountain curves. I also find it interesting in the comparo by Edmunds (DIRECT COMPARO mind you, not individual test) that the 335i's tranny is better. When introduced, Lexus claimed that the IS's auto tranny was class-leading in terms of shift speed. But, as it turns out, the 335i's tranny does faster shifts and matches revs on downshift. So, there is not much that the IS350 does that is "class-leading," much less beating real sports car costing more, which you claimed i believe.

I do find your comment humurous because if anything, then you should have said that your IS350 will smoke the BMW 335i on the track after a long day since the 335i's engine cannot handle heat buildup well. Geez, Koz, you need to learn to argue better!

As for you beating the 750i, i can't believe that you actually pride yourself on that one! Although you "spanked" it, you realize that there won't be many IS owners turning down a 750i for an even trade. You just "spanked" a large ass sports LUXURY sedan...not exactly a good kill (even if the owner was an ass). I never did pride myself in beating a S-class or 7-series when i had my M3...what is the point?!! Why don't you take your IS350 to the track and see how it holds up against REAL sports cars, not oversize luxury sedans. It's like a 4runner beating a Lincoln Navigator or Ford Excursion in off-roading...whoopeedooo.

Koz, in the end, i would buy an IS over BMW for overall reliability reason and good performance. But, you just kill me with your radical extreme totally bias enthusiasm that it makes me feel like the bad guy here. Do you not see this??!! Or do you actually believe EVERYTHING that you write?? Class-leading, Benchmark, etc...holy cow!! It's really hard for anyone just remotely impartial to read your enthusiasm and not laugh about it. And i am being serious about this. I have no problems with you, but it's just hard for me to swallow what you write all the time. Let's keep enthusiasm in check with reality.

I really do like your choice in cars.

 

[GatorGreg]

P.S. I had fun last Friday spanking a 750i on my way home from work. It was so funny reading his mind; "How does a little Lexus run so good?" He was so upset he started getting really crazy trying to get past me. I had to cut him loose and let him go.

Koz

That's funny I also spanked one of the newer 7 series a couple weeks ago on my way to work in my Moosestang. I could tell by his driving style that he'd want to run me so when I pulled up next to him at a light I gave him the hand signal and off we went. I had at least a couple of lengths on him by the time we hit 70 when I let off. He wasn't mad though, we just gave each other a nod and went on our way.

 

[Koz]

Let's stick to direct comparison between the two since you earlier stated that BMW was "scared" to compete directly with Lexus! Do you realize that your whole argument is now gone down the pipe with recent reviews and comparison of the BMW??!! It's OK to admit when you're wrong. Come on, i want to hear you say it....

And, apparently, ON THE STREETS, the BMW 335i will show it's taillights to you and outhandle you on the mountain curves. I also find it interesting in the comparo by Edmunds (DIRECT COMPARO mind you, not individual test) that the 335i's tranny is better. When introduced, Lexus claimed that the IS's auto tranny was class-leading in terms of shift speed. But, as it turns out, the 335i's tranny does faster shifts and matches revs on downshift. So, there is not much that the IS350 does that is "class-leading," much less beating real sports car costing more, which you claimed i believe.

I do find your comment humurous because if anything, then you should have said that your IS350 will smoke the BMW 335i on the track after a long day since the 335i's engine cannot handle heat buildup well. Geez, Koz, you need to learn to argue better!

As for you beating the 750i, i can't believe that you actually pride yourself on that one! Although you "spanked" it, you realize that there won't be many IS owners turning down a 750i for an even trade. You just "spanked" a large ass sports LUXURY sedan...not exactly a good kill (even if the owner was an ass). I never did pride myself in beating a S-class or 7-series when i had my M3...what is the point?!! Why don't you take your IS350 to the track and see how it holds up against REAL sports cars, not oversize luxury sedans. It's like a 4runner beating a Lincoln Navigator or Ford Excursion in off-roading...whoopeedooo.

Koz, in the end, i would buy an IS over BMW for overall reliability reason and good performance. But, you just kill me with your radical extreme totally bias enthusiasm that it makes me feel like the bad guy here. Do you not see this??!! Or do you actually believe EVERYTHING that you write?? Class-leading, Benchmark, etc...holy cow!! It's really hard for anyone just remotely impartial to read your enthusiasm and not laugh about it. And i am being serious about this. I have no problems with you, but it's just hard for me to swallow what you write all the time. Let's keep enthusiasm in check with reality.

I really do like your choice in cars.

Edmunds

 

[Thai]

Koz,

Just about every magazine out there rates the BMW ahead of Lexus. There is no conspiracy...unless everyone is involved! BTW, Edmunds IMHO is very much into real world experience, unlike Car & Driver which is too focused on performance.

You mentioned coil-overs, etc....well, that's not exactly stock is it?? A BMW driver can do the same and still beat your modded IS. Do you get the point?? It's meaningless in THIS debate about how you can mod your car to beat another stock vehicle.

As for braking, your IS did stop 2 feet shorter, but then again, the BMW beat the crap out of IS in Road & Track testing (see above). Both reviews rave about BMW's braking feedback.

The power favors the BMW by a SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT...because the trap speed is SIGNIFICANTLY higher. Again, why are you not understanding this??!! Seriously, you claim to know racing yet you don't seem to get "it".

Since the IS350's tranny is the quickest YOU have driven, i am supposed to be impress with this??!!

The IS350's tranny does not blip the throttle on downshift which is a cool thing to have, is it not??

I don't care if the IS350 is useless when using the paddles...the bottom line is that the BMW auto shifts faster by whatever means needed. That is all that matters on the "streets," is it not?? In fact, i prefer an auto that shifts faster when I WANT TO SHIFT FASTER.

As for the quieter part, didn't the BMW beat the IS in dB's??? Check your facts again...both Edmunds and R&T rates the BMW quieter. Sorry.

As for your other claims, i agree...Lexus has an excellent sound system and reliability record. There is no doubt what vehicle i would buy if i had a choice between the two...IS350. (Actually, i like the GS350 too.) I just wanted to point out to YOU your amazing lack of fairness in discussing the competition.

 

[Koz]

Thai,

The best times for these cars are only 1/10 sec apart, with BMW having the advantage (it should with twin turbos). There are several IS (stock) drag racers that beat the 335i more then they lose to them. A drag race is not determined by who has a higher trap speed (please stop with the "I don't understand what trap speeds mean), it is determined by who gets to the finish line quicker. My point is they are very close in power and either one can win a drag race, depending on the drivers.

If I throw coilovers on a Yaris is it going to get through a slalom at 70mph? The design/capability has to be there to achieve those speeds. My point is the IS350 is capable of much better handling if it is set up better. Stock ISs are set-up for a plush luxury ride but have the potential of putting down some serious numbers. 70mph is beyond anything I ever expected. No 3 series has even put down those numbers. Yes it will no longer be stock but for a couple dollars there is a greater potential for the IS.

When you show me specs that show the 335

 

[GatorGreg]

I am closing this thread cuz I think this BMW v. Lexus debate has been beat to death many times over now. But of course since Thai is coadmin he can always unlock it to continue the beating

 

[Thai]

The Lexus engineers claim it is the fastest shifting automatic transmission on the market (in 2006). Faster than a Ferrari F430. After doing some checking, almost all the manufactures make the same claim.

It would have to be measured in the milliseconds. In the real world, I raced a manual M3 convertible and every time he shifted I gained more distance on him. Beat him by a couple cars before he shut down at a little over a 100mph.

Just like the IS having an advantage over the 335i in every other category.

Koz

Koz, Ferrari F430 has sequential tranny, not automatic (aka torque converter). Now, the IS350 tranny may be fast, but the 335i's auto tranny is faster when using the manual mode...that is all that counts on the streets or on the racetrack. I don't care if your IS350 can shift in auto mode faster...most people will be using manual mode anyway for any type of racing! Sorry if your IS350 doesn't do much in manual mode...that's your problem, NOT BMW driver's. He will shift manually, which is BTW still shifting via torque converter...thus, in essence, the auto is shifting faster than your IS's.

And if you think that your IS350 AUTOMATIC TORQUE CONVERTER tranny is faster than my M3's SMG tranny, then you are on another planet! Drive a M3 with the SMG in S6 mode and you will soon realize just how slow your Lexus tranny is! S6 mode borders on being violent! Same goes for Ferrari's sequential tranny. Lexus may be cheating by using other modes and then claiming that their tranny shifts faster...but you can ask anyone who has driven one of the sequentials in max mode, and they will just laugh at you. And forget about VW's DSG tranny...that thing will blow away ANY tranny in shift speed. Let's get reality check again please.

As for you beating a M3 Convert by a couple car lengths, two things are sure:
1. You are full of shit.
2. The M3 guy does not know who to shift a manual tranny.

I am hoping that it's the reason #2. I get the feeling that as we debate more and more, you come up with these "kill stories"...almost overnight!! Do you race people on the streets everyday??

Have you seen "How to Lose a Guy in 10 days" movie?? It's a cheesy date movie and i saw it a while back with my wife. In that movie, there is a game where you call someone's bluff by saying, "BULLSHIT!!" Well Koz,

BULLSHIT!!

Tell me what performance category does IS350 beat BMW 335i consistently in??? What is this "every other category"?? I will give you two things: reliability and sound system.

Sorry.

 

[Thai]

But of course since Thai is coadmin he can always unlock it to continue the beating

 

[Koz]

Koz, Ferrari F430 has sequential tranny, not automatic (aka torque converter). Now, the IS350 tranny may be fast, but the 335i's auto tranny is faster when using the manual mode...that is all that counts on the streets or on the racetrack. I don't care if your IS350 can shift in auto mode faster...most people will be using manual mode anyway for any type of racing! Sorry if your IS350 doesn't do much in manual mode...that's your problem, NOT BMW driver's. He will shift manually, which is BTW still shifting via torque converter...thus, in essence, the auto is shifting faster than your IS's.

And if you think that your IS350 AUTOMATIC TORQUE CONVERTER tranny is faster than my M3's SMG tranny, then you are on another planet! Drive a M3 with the SMG in S6 mode and you will soon realize just how slow your Lexus tranny is! S6 mode borders on being violent! Same goes for Ferrari's sequential tranny. Lexus may be cheating by using other modes and then claiming that their tranny shifts faster...but you can ask anyone who has driven one of the sequentials in max mode, and they will just laugh at you. And forget about VW's DSG tranny...that thing will blow away ANY tranny in shift speed. Let's get reality check again please.

As for you beating a M3 Convert by a couple car lengths, two things are sure:
1. You are full of shit.
2. The M3 guy does not know who to shift a manual tranny.

I am hoping that it's the reason #2. I get the feeling that as we debate more and more, you come up with these "kill stories"...almost overnight!! Do you race people on the streets everyday??

Have you seen "How to Lose a Guy in 10 days" movie?? It's a cheesy date movie and i saw it a while back with my wife. In that movie, there is a game where you call someone's bluff by saying, "BULLSHIT!!" Well Koz,

BULLSHIT!!

Tell me what performance category does IS350 beat BMW 335i consistently in??? What is this "every other category"?? I will give you two things: reliability and sound system.

Sorry.

There is no way possible the 335i can be shifted manually faster/more precise then the IS in full auto. Put down the crack pipe and step away from the computer. As I said before many manufactures claim to have the fastest shifting auto trans. Show me some facts, NOT personal opinion.

I resent you calling me a liar, saying

 

[Thai]

The 335i with automatic tranny can be shifted faster manually...according to Edmunds, not by me. And since both BMW and Lexus have automatic tranny, this makes the BMW auto faster shifting period regardless of method. And since it's also an automatic, the BMW's tranny is just as "precise" as your Lexus tranny. It's not rocket science in understanding this, Koz.

In addition, it also blips the throttle on downshifts, which is advantageous in handling and accelerating around a corner. The Lexus tranny does not do this...and this is very surprising since it's a brand new tranny.

You need to go drive a real sequential tranny from BMW M, Audi DSG, or Ferrari's. There is a world of difference in shift speed and precision.

I did not specifically call you, "full of shit"...i gave you a multiple choice answer to pick from.

Actually, Koz, you have posted your kill stories TWICE already i think...BMW 750i and now this M3.

 

[Thai]

I agree that the 335i has the power advantage (not significant, as you think) but what good is it if after pushing the car a little (3 laps) the engine goes into safety mode and the car limps home? The only way to drive a 335i is to lease it under warranty. As far as all the other categories the IS is better then the 335i; It would be easier to just say ALL others but I

 

[Thai]

This is from Edmunds test SECOND OPINION:

Senior Editor, Detroit Daniel Pund says:
I badly wanted the Lexus IS 350 to win this comparison test. Well, I'm not so sure if I wanted the Lexus to win so much as see the BMW 335i lose. Whatever, I didn't want it to end the way we all knew it would. It isn't that I have anything against BMW. Nor do I have any vested interest in seeing Lexus succeed. I tell you, it's all for my colleague, Walton.

You see, Walton, despite his boyish mien, is actually 76 years old. This means that he has been obliged to write the BMW-3-Series-wins-again story approximately 83 times in his lengthy career. It goes something like this: "Oh, Competitor X is getting pretty close. It's a real sport sedan now. It's quite good. Oh, forget it. BMW wins!"

So imagine how bad I felt for Walton when the BMW, with its monster turbo motor, slaughtered the (quite good) Lexus in each and every of the parameters that combine to create driving pleasure. The BMW handles better, goes better, rides better, steers way better, shifts better...possibly, you get the point. In short, BMW wins. Again."

Emphasis on that last sentence or two.

 

[Thai]

In case you missed this:

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0609_2007_bmw_335i_dynamometer/

That was the first test by Automag...here's more info:

"Dynamometer: BMW 335i continues to impress

Last month, Automobile magazine reported it managed to record 275 horsepower and 300 lb-ft of torque at the wheels in a dynamometer test of BMW's new 335i coupe. Based on these impressive wheel-horsepower numbers, the magazine reckoned the Bimmer makes close to 350 horsepower at the crank, rather than BMW's official 300 hp figure. Following the publication of this data, many skeptics question the accuracy of the dynamometer readings. Now, the magazine reports retesting the 335i with surprising results. After a number of consistent peaks at 285 horsepower at the wheels, the testers managed to record an impressive 287 horsepower. Amazingly, the car even managed to peak briefly at 299.93 wheel horsepower after shifting to fourth. The magazine insists it wasn't additional torque from a rough shift, but rather momentary turbo spike afforded by the computer. So far, no one has attempted to measure power at the crank, but we suspect Automobile is correct when they say it would be a great deal more than the advertised 300 horsepower."

But, then again, i am sure that Automobile Magazine is on BMW's payroll too, along with every other magazine in the world! Honestly, i do feel that Automobile magazine is the best one out there in terms of fairness and honesty. Boy, do they kill some vehicles on their reviews!

 

[Koz]

The 335i with automatic tranny can be shifted faster manually...according to Edmunds, not by me. And since both BMW and Lexus have automatic tranny, this makes the BMW auto faster shifting period regardless of method. And since it's also an automatic, the BMW's tranny is just as "precise" as your Lexus tranny. It's not rocket science in understanding this, Koz.

In addition, it also blips the throttle on downshifts, which is advantageous in handling and accelerating around a corner. The Lexus tranny does not do this...and this is very surprising since it's a brand new tranny.

You need to go drive a real sequential tranny from BMW M, Audi DSG, or Ferrari's. There is a world of difference in shift speed and precision.

I did not specifically call you, "full of shit"...i gave you a multiple choice answer to pick from.

Actually, Koz, you have posted your kill stories TWICE already i think...BMW 750i and now this M3.

You see, this is what I'm talking about. You need to work on your problem. COMPREHENTION! I

 

[Thai]

You see, this is what I'm talking about. You need to work on your problem. COMPREHENTION! I

 

[Thai]

Nurburgring lap time:

BMW 335i (coupe) 8.26 min (4 seconds slower than M3)

IS350 9.41 (best time out of 2 runs apparently)

Porsche Cayman 8.11

Do you any other numbers, Koz?? If not, then this is not even in the same ballpark.

 

[Koz]

In case you missed this:

"Dynamometer: BMW 335i continues to impress

Last month, Automobile magazine reported it managed to record 275 horsepower and 300 lb-ft of torque at the wheels in a dynamometer test of BMW's new 335i coupe. Based on these impressive wheel-horsepower numbers, the magazine reckoned the Bimmer makes close to 350 horsepower at the crank, rather than BMW's official 300 hp figure. Following the publication of this data, many skeptics question the accuracy of the dynamometer readings. Now, the magazine reports retesting the 335i with surprising results. After a number of consistent peaks at 285 horsepower at the wheels, the testers managed to record an impressive 287 horsepower. Amazingly, the car even managed to peak briefly at 299.93 wheel horsepower after shifting to fourth. The magazine insists it wasn't additional torque from a rough shift, but rather momentary turbo spike afforded by the computer. So far, no one has attempted to measure power at the crank, but we suspect Automobile is correct when they say it would be a great deal more than the advertised 300 horsepower."

But, then again, i am sure that Automobile Magazine is on BMW's payroll too, along with every other magazine in the world! Honestly, i do feel that Automobile magazine is the best one out there in terms of fairness and honesty. Boy, do they kill some vehicles on their reviews!

Is this like you telling me how the 335i

 

[Thai]

Is this like you telling me how the 335i

 

[Koz]

All i can tell you is that IS350 is NOT class-leading in performance as you claimed. (

Where did I ever make that claim?

Koz

 

[Thai]

Where did I ever make that claim?

Koz

Didn't you claim that the IS350 was class-leading in performance or acceleration or street performance or something like that?? If not, then it's my mistake. I guess that you do know FACTS after all.

Just kidding Koz...have a good weekend.