NY Mosque Near Ground Zero


Two thoughts (I'd like to say more, but I am too darn tired.) about this issue come to mind this evening:

1. People around the world - particularly in Muslim nations - tend to like Americans as individuals; but they dislike or even hate our government. Some of this is because of "propaganda" or censorship and limited access to media; while other hatred is a direct result of perceived interference by our people into their nation's internal affairs.

2. Being "tolerant" of people who are extremely intolerant will get us nowhere. We'll be perceived (by our adversaries) as weak - and they smell weakness much the same as sharks detect blood in the water right before they attack. We've kept extremists in check when they fear us, but lose that edge whenever they see us as being "soft" - either unable or unwilling to respond to any hostile action against us.

~ Just some thoughts for the night. ~


P.S. I am happy that the Koran burning was canceled, but wish that our "tolerant" Muslim friends would have done the same with their planned mosque as a reciprocal gesture. I won't hold my breath!
 
"1. People around the world - particularly in Muslim nations - tend to like Americans as individuals; but they dislike or even hate our government. Some of this is because of "propaganda" or censorship and limited access to media; while other hatred is a direct result of perceived interference by our people into their nation's internal affairs."
In all my travel, I have yet to experience this. Most of them think of America as a great place. And, if this is the case, due to limited access to media or propaganda, then the same can be said about us. How many Muslims have WE sat down and had dinner with? How many Muslims have shown people here their kids pictures or the house they are saving for? Which, by the way, is usually the size of the box our TV's come in.

Again, I work with about 75% Muslims. I spend over 6 months out of the year in countries with Muslims. I have yet to see the INTOLERANCE. The only thing I have seen is hard working people with the same dreams as us. Really, the only time I see Muslim intolerance towards Americans is on TV. I am NOT saying there aren't extremist, I am simply saying that from what I have experienced, I have found most of them to be just like us, only following a different faith.

What worries me about these same people is, when their government finally allows them to have more access to the outside news, then I think my travels will become dangerous.
 
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Again, I work with about 75% Muslims. I spend over 6 months out of the year in countries with Muslims. I have yet to see the INTOLERANCE. The only thing I have seen is hard working people with the same dreams as us. Really, the only time I see Muslim intolerance towards Americans is on TV. I am NOT saying there aren't extremist, I am simply saying that from what I have experienced, I have found most of them to be just like us, only following a different faith.

What worries me about these same people is, when their government finally allows them to have more access to the outside news, then I think my travels will become dangerous.


I work with just one guy who is a Muslim from Pakistan. He's actually very religious....he reads the Koran during every one of his break periods. He even stops at certain times to kneel and pray, making sure that he faces in the correct direction. I think if more people actually knew Muslims instead of learning from what they watch on television, maybe they would think a bit differently.

I've talked to him about 9/11 many times over the years and he's every bit as angry about the attacks as any natural-born American.

I don't know why we continue to demonize Muslims....it's an ignorant reaction that proves there are still people who just don't get it.
 
I just watched the 60 minutes special on the mosque NEAR ground zero tonight.
I haven't followed this debate too closely, but I can't find a single reason why it shouldn't be there. Only part of it is a mosque and it's 3 blocks away from ground zero. It's been abandoned since 9/11. It's been supported before this debate from the neighborhood and politicians to revitalize the neighborhood. The mosque has already been open for over a year there, there trying to build a community center open to all.
The person they interviewed who basically started this intense debate seems to be big the biggest buffoon out there.
 
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I just watched the 60 minutes special on the mosque NEAR ground zero tonight.
I haven't followed this debate too closely, but I can't find a single reason why it shouldn't be there. Only part of it is a mosque and it's 3 blocks away from ground zero. It's been abandoned since 9/11. It's been supported before this debate from the neighborhood and politicians to revitalize the neighborhood. The mosque has already been open for over a year there, there trying to build a community center open to all.
The person they interviewed who basically started this intense debate seems to be big the biggest buffoon out there.

So there was a single source that sparked the debate? What's the name? I just figured it was another Fox News incendiary special
 
So there was a single source that sparked the debate? What's the name? I just figured it was another Fox News incendiary special

You can watch the entire 60 Minutes segment on YouTube. Just search "60 Minutes mosque ground zero" and it will come right up for you.
 
You can watch the entire 60 Minutes segment on YouTube. Just search "60 Minutes mosque ground zero" and it will come right up for you.

Heading there now! Thanks!

Edit: Seemed like a fair segment to me. This is the woman they credit with starting the controversy. She seemed absolutely thrilled to be called a "devil".
 
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Of course they LEGALLY are allowed to do it. But there's a big difference between what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do...
Everyone knows it shouldn't be done. Even they do. It's being built in that specific spot to be spiteful.

I agree 100%. Its a spit in the face of American citizens.
 
I agree 100%. Its a spit in the face of American citizens.

So, when you say American Citizens, to you, would that be a person born in America? There are American citizens (persons born in America) who are Muslims. Meaning, Muslim American. Which, is the same as saying African American, or Mexican American. Which is incorrect to say as well. They are simply Americans. Plus, Muslim is just their religion, not where they are from. That would be like calling someone Catholic American.

Having said that, how is building this Mosque near ground zero a "a spit in the face of American citizens"? Please include Muslim Americans in you answer.
 
Not to beat this dead horse, but read the Koran before defending it. There is no "peaceful" version of Islam in the big scale of things. There are people who heed the call to kill the infidel and cleanse the earth of Christian and other religious ideals (terrorists) and then there are Muslims who sit back and watch, much like "Sunday Christians". Sure, they do not personally take part in that activity, but a Muslim who has the chance but does not heed the call to do their part to destroy the Western world's way of life cannot get into "Heaven" according to the Koran and Mohammed. Plain and simple. They can try to rationalize their way out of this, but in the end they cannot have their cake and eat it too. And just because the American version of Islam doesn't participate in terrorism right now does not mean that when the time comes they will stand with America - especially if that means they will be doomed in the "afterlife".

If you think this country will be a better place in 10 or 20 years because the Muslim population is growing at a faster rate than any other race or religion than that is naive. They are doing it on purpose with a specific plan. What happens to this country when they have a big percentage of the vote? And Europe is dealing with the same situation. You do realize that Islam is spreading into these areas of the world to overtake them eventually right? "Breed them out" is the philosophy - ever seen Braveheart? Like I said, they don't achieve the afterlife they seek without actively destroying the infidel and the Koran tells them to decieve their enemies to push their agenda. I didn't make that up, Mohammed did, and that doesn't change from sect to sect. It's just ignored, for now, by some.

The more I try to give this religion a chance, the more I realize there is absolutely nothing good about it. You may be convinced because you like the Muslim guy you work with, but the big picture is scary and very real. "Traditional" Americans need to wake up and stop defending everyone else while forgetting about their own damn future - and their childrens' futures. And not let people take advantage of our laws and use them against us. It's like the frog in the boiling water, it'll be to late by the time we realize that they played our own laws against us and we screwed ourselves with our own inability to adapt the constitution to prevent loosing the whole damn country. They see this loophole and you better believe thay are using it as a weapon.

There is an "unspoken" movement in this country to rob us of our traditions and beliefs in the name of political corectness. Is it legal? Yes. Will it eventually lead to the downfall of our national identity? Yes. Will it split the citizens of our country? It already has. Is that how America will eventually fall? Along with the economy, yes. And it's probably the most devastating way to destroy a country like ours. Is there anything good at all that could possibly come from a heavy Muslim influence in the US and Europe? HELL NO, by no stretch of the imagination!

Realize people, that you can and will systematically loose all of your rights while you're too busy defending the rights of the ever-expanding influence of Islam in the world. They do not believe in "our" way of life! Remember that. They are just lying silent and in wait to grow their numbers in the peaceful parts of the world until they are a formidable force everywhere around the world. If you really believe that horse s**t that they are peaceful and everything will get better and better the more of them there are in this country, you're blind IMO.
 
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Not to beat this dead horse, but read the Koran before defending it. There is no "peaceful" version of Islam in the big scale of things. There are people who heed the call to kill the infidel and cleanse the earth of Christian and other religious ideals (terrorists) and then there are Muslims who sit back and watch, much like "Sunday Christians". Sure, they do not personally take part in that activity, but a Muslim who has the chance but does not heed the call to do their part to destroy the Western world's way of life cannot get into "Heaven" according to the Koran and Mohammed. Plain and simple. They can try to rationalize their way out of this, but in the end they cannot have their cake and eat it too. And just because the American version of Islam doesn't participate in terrorism right now does not mean that when the time comes they will stand with America - especially if that means they will be doomed in the "afterlife".

If you think this country will be a better place in 10 or 20 years because the Muslim population is growing at a faster rate than any other race or religion than that is naive. They are doing it on purpose with a specific plan. What happens to this country when they have a big percentage of the vote? And Europe is dealing with the same situation. You do realize that Islam is spreading into these areas of the world to overtake them eventually right? "Breed them out" is the philosophy - ever seen Braveheart? Like I said, they don't achieve the afterlife they seek without actively destroying the infidel and the Koran tells them to decieve their enemies to push their agenda. I didn't make that up, Mohammed did, and that doesn't change from sect to sect. It's just ignored, for now, by some.

The more I try to give this religion a chance, the more I realize there is absolutely nothing good about it. You may be convinced because you like the Muslim guy you work with, but the big picture is scary and very real. Americans need to wake up and stop defending everyone else while forgetting about their own damn future - and their childrens' futures.

There is an "unspoken" movement in this country to rob us of our traditions and beliefs in the name of political corectness. Is it legal? Yes. Will it eventually lead to the downfall of our national identity? Yes. Will it split the citizens of our country? It already has. Is that how America will eventually fall? Along with the economy, yes. And it's probably the most devastating way to destroy a country like ours. Is there anything good at all that could possibly come from a heavy Muslim influence in the US and Europe? HELL NO, by no stretch of the imagination!

Realize people, that you can and will systematically loose all of your rights while you're too busy defending the rights of the ever-expanding influence of Islam in the world. They do not believe in "our" way of life! Remember that. They are just lying silent and in wait to grow their numbers in the peaceful parts of the world until they are a formidable force everywhere around the world. If you really believe that horse s**t that they are peaceful and everything will get better and better the more of them there are in this country, you're blind IMO.

Never, at any point in any of my post have I defended the Koran. Take care with your accusations. You missed the point.
 
Agree 100% with you Brian.

The reason all Muslims can justify that they follow a 'peaceful' religion is simple. The final goal, as set out in the Koran by Muhammad, is to convert all world governments to sharia rule, by any means necessary. Basically, sharia is a theocracy, where the church is the government, specifically the Islamic church. The Koran goes on to say that, once the world has fallen under Muslim rule, everyone must convert to Islam or die. Then, once only Muslims remain, there will be 'peace' in this world.

Next time you hear some muslim spokesperson saying that this mosque, or any muslim action, is an act of peace, you will know what they REALLY mean by it.
 
I wasn't directing my post specifically toward you, LX4RUNNER, just portions of it. I understand you're defending American's rights. I was pointing out the fact that they (Muslims) are using our tolerance in this country as a weapon against us. It's all in the name of religious freedom now, but in 10 or 20 years this country will totally suck if Islam continues to grow at the pace that it is now. And who's to blame? Our own people for not calling it when they see it. My point is, don't let their religious freedom blind you from loosing your own rights and national identity and our children's. Remember that they aren't building churches of other faiths in their home countries; they have no religious tolerance but want to take advantage of ours.

4-Ripcord, I'm glad you see it for what it is!
 
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So, when you say American Citizens, to you, would that be a person born in America? There are American citizens (persons born in America) who are Muslims. Meaning, Muslim American. Which, is the same as saying African American, or Mexican American. Which is incorrect to say as well. They are simply Americans. Plus, Muslim is just their religion, not where they are from. That would be like calling someone Catholic American.

Having said that, how is building this Mosque near ground zero a "a spit in the face of American citizens"? Please include Muslim Americans in you answer.

Well excuse me, let me rephrase that to say, "It's a spit in the face to American citizens who actually care about the future of this country". Find me one single Muslim "American" who is opposing the building of this mosque? To those American citizens who truly care about this country, it is a blatant spit in the face.

On another note, if they do somehow build this mosque...hopefully someone with more money than me will build a strip joint across the street called "You Mecca Me Horny"...and a Gay bar down the street called "The Turban Cowboy"...and also a BBQ place across the street called "Iraq O' Ribs"...and of course, the brothel called "Allah Women You Want".

Sorry, couldn't resist...got it in an E-Mail :bluejump:

But really, lets see if tolerance goes both ways...it is legal right?

Where is Ric on this subject?!?!
 
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Muslim American. African American, or Mexican American.

Not to open a new can of worms or anything; but this kind of stuff pisses me off too. Either you are an American or you aren't, support the country you live in. I was born in Germany and moved here with my parents when I was 6, does that make me a 'German American'? Hell no, I'm just a regular badass American, dammit.

Terms like those simply prolong racial separation. And people who classify themselves with these terms seem to be the ones who think they suffer from racial discrimination. Doesn't make very much sense to me..

Anywho, rant off, back on topic.
:snacker:
 
Well excuse me, let me rephrase that to say, "It's a spit in the face to American citizens who actually care about the future of this country". Find me one single Muslim "American" who is opposing the building of this mosque? To those American citizens who truly care about this country, it is a blatant spit in the face.

On another note, if they do somehow build this mosque...hopefully someone with more money than me will build a strip joint across the street called "You Mecca Me Horny"...and a Gay bar down the street called "The Turban Cowboy"...and also a BBQ place across the street called "Iraq O' Ribs"...and of course, the brothel called "Allah Women You Want".

Sorry, couldn't resist...got it in an E-Mail :bluejump:

But really, lets see if tolerance goes both ways...it is legal right?

Where is Ric on this subject?!?!

"American citizens who truly care about the future of this country." Hmm.
 
Hmmmmm what? I'd like to hear it...

It's nothing really. It's just clear now. I guess there are American citizens who care about their country and those that don't. And I guess it all depends on your views about other religions. To me, that will destroy America before a Mosque will.
 

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